How come Nod gets so many specialised chars?

[epicelite]

Nod has the Chem Warrior who can walk on tib, and the SBH who is freaking INVISIBLE!

So anyway why not make the PIC suit for Mobius/Sydney actually do something?

Like maybe it costs an extra 500 creds extra, but does something that...

-Lets you see SBH/Stank better? In single player she puts on the suit to find SBH's or something but it didn't work so well.

-Gives your radar the ability to see enemies. (when not available by the server)

-Makes you uncrushable? That would be gay though.

-Makes weapons do less damage unless headshot?

Currently all it does is make your character a bigger target.

Also why do tanks have armor? Shouldn't it all be health?

I mean infantry have it because when you fall you lose health and not armor. So why do tanks and stuff have it lol?

[Combine 108]

To me (I may be wrong), Nod's specialty is characters. And things that do magic. GDI makes up for that with sheer firepower. Plus, walking on tiberium isn't really all that special.

You have a point with the PIC suit, although I dont think any gameplay changes should be made. i suggest we move the alternate blue costume for the 1k sydney over to the tib rifle sydney as an alternate costume, and leave the Protoype Suit costume for the 1k sydney, so no one would get confused as to why the blue outfit takes as much damage as the prototype suit. Just my two cents.

[omega79]

corect me if i am wrong but doesnt the higher characters see sbh from a longer range than normal units?

i mean not like 1 mile away but from a few steps, while a normal soldier basicly needs to run directly into a sbh to actualy spot it.

i still nothing needs to be fixed, i wouldnt even change anything on the flamthrower ...

what needs to be fixed are things like the bungeerope bug, or invisible beacons, or ref-hop ... BUGS

just my 2 cents

QUOTE (Combine 108 @ Sep 3 2008, 01:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... i suggest we move the alternate blue costume for the 1k sydney over to the tib rifle sydney as an alternate costume, and leave the Protoype Suit costume for the 1k sydney, so no one would get confused as to why the blue outfit takes as much damage as the prototype suit. Just my two cents.[/b]

thats an idea

[Pr0eX]

The bugs you mentioned could not even be there in the Mod. Its simply no more Renegade its a totally new game (and engine).

For sure we will try to keep the origenal style, but not the bugs!

[omega79]

QUOTE (Pr0eX @ Sep 3 2008, 11:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The bugs you mentioned could not even be there in the Mod. Its simply no more Renegade its a totally new game (and engine).
For sure we will try to keep the origenal style, but not the bugs![/b]

yep i know that ... it was just to show the difference between bugs and "features" (between unwanted things and planned stuff)
it is not easy to tell for some people, cuz today the major publishers define bugs as features

[GummiBear]

QUOTE (epicelite @ Sep 3 2008, 04:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Also why do tanks have armor? Shouldn't it all be health?[/b]

wouldn't it more be like only armor and no health?

[maty]

Armour protects the internals: drivers, engine, controls, weapons - those are the health of the vehicle.

It always made sense to me .

[omega79]

QUOTE (maty @ Sep 3 2008, 01:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Armour protects the internals: drivers, engine, controls, weapons - those are the health of the vehicle.

It always made sense to me .[/b]

does it really matter what it is called?

btw, isn't it like the armor is harder to "kill" than the health of an vech ...
(damned it seems to be long since i logged into renegade)

[maty]

QUOTE (omega79 @ Sep 3 2008, 06:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

does it really matter what it is called?[/b]

o_O

I didn't start this conversation, I was merely adding my input. Don't blame me - you might regret it haha .

[[NE]Fobby[GEN]]

Also special features for Nod don't make the game imbalanced. We'll definitely find a way to make the Tib Autorifle more useful, but I don't see how the SBH's ability to stealth makes it unbalanced. Gunner costs the same amount as the SBH; he may not be able to stealth but he has a much stronger weapon. Five gunners can destroy a building from far away in less than 20 seconds. The SBH on the other hand stealths, but isn't useful for anything except walking into the enemy base unnoticed.

[epicelite]

QUOTE (NEFobbyGEN @ Sep 3 2008, 03:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Also special features for Nod don't make the game imbalanced. We'll definitely find a way to make the Tib Autorifle more useful, but I don't see how the SBH's ability to stealth makes it unbalanced. Gunner costs the same amount as the SBH; he may not be able to stealth but he has a much stronger weapon. Five gunners can destroy a building from far away in less than 20 seconds. The SBH on the other hand stealths, but isn't useful for anything except walking into the enemy base unnoticed.[/b]

Also waiting on the field for some idiot to hop out and try and repair their tank only to find it stolen!

[[NE]Fobby[GEN]]

Actually that's one of the reasons why the SBH isn't great. In every public game you have 30% of your team running around with SBHs "trying" to steal a tank. Even when they do, the tank is usually killed quickly by team mates anyways.

So basically that's 30% of your team sitting on their ass and doing nothing but watch the enemy progress through the field.

[epicelite]

Yeah just like on GDI how you have 50% of the team putting mines infront of the AGT because the think it will help stop a rush.

Or they buy a Havoc to shoot at that one artillery.

Or they stand their "d00de im saving for a mammy rush lol come on guise MAMMY RUSH!11!!1!!11"

At least those SBH's are out on the field keeping GDI looking over their shoulder.

[[NE]Fobby[GEN]]

QUOTE

Yeah just like on GDI how you have 50% of the team putting mines infront of the AGT because the think it will help stop a rush.

Or they buy a Havoc to shoot at that one artillery.[/b]

Actually both teams could do what you just said, I don't know why you attribute it to GDI only.

QUOTE

At least those SBH's are out on the field keeping GDI looking over their shoulder.[/b]

If GDI is looking over their shoulder, how does that help Nod? :lol:

[epicelite]

Because if you are constantly worried about a SBH then you are more on-edge and more likely to mess up and get yourself killed.

[[NE]Fobby[GEN]]

Isn't it the other way around? If you're more worried about an SBH, it's more likely you go to a safe place to repair. If you sit on a field with an SBH with the intent of stealing a vehicle, it usually takes 5-10 minutes of waiting around. Imagine what you could be doing instead.

[R315r4z0r]

Yea, agreed. There is absolutely no reason to fear a SBH as GDI because it is safe to assume that a SBH will not open fire on you (unless you are just about to die) because they want to remain hidden to steal your tank.

All you have to do is stay in your tank and then that means Nod has a few useless players running around the field aimlessly.

[Jointn00b]

an sbh can actually be quite usefull in non base defence maps a team of 4 sbh's can actually kill a building by placing c4 and shooting mct. also in combo with an apc you can 'stealth' nuke a building by making the apc a distraction and defence at the same time

[epicelite]

I like the PP APC trick

You plant a beacon as a tech, at the PP, you sit in that little V corner thing by the door and repair the APC as he backs up into it so that nobody can get to the beacon to disarm it.

[GummiBear]

QUOTE (NEFobbyGEN @ Sep 4 2008, 02:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually both teams could do what you just said, I don't know why you attribute it to GDI only.[/b]

Since when did Nod have an AGT?

[[NE]Fobby[GEN]]

QUOTE

Since when did Nod have an AGT?[/b]

I didn't mean that. I meant Nod can mine the front of their base as well.

[Demigan]

If you know how to REALLY use an SBH, it's one of the best characters in the game.

It's laser rifle has a moderate fire rate with pretty good damage vs both infantry and tanks. If you act as if you weren't invisible you can kill just about any infantry with it.

Also, the fact that you can hide away somewhere and use your pistol (which IS silenced, unless your standing 4 feet away) is great. In both under and field I kill hotwires and engineers repairing the tanks outside the nod base with the pistol, while they think they are being hit by artillery fire (a pistol usually leaves no damage indicator)

For snipers you can always check the weapon spawn for a shotgun (or if you're lucky a sniper) and then just stand sideways of the enemy snipers and pump their heads full of lead.

The only thing is: most people are afraid of being discovered. Thus negating the great advantage you have by being able to have that second to get the first few shots in.

Also, there is the minor disadvantage of a laser rifle that sounds almost louder then artillery fire, and most people think 'that's an easy target, let's get him!'

But, knowing that 100 infantry will run at you when you fire one of those rifles can be usefull in luring people away into your remote's or other big bad weapons.

Yours sincerely,

Demigan.

[[NE]Fobby[GEN]]

I'm not denying that it's a good character, I am just pointing out that it balances out nicely with its GDI counterpart and isn't as overwhelming as the original post makes it seem.

(Oh and happy birthday demigan)

[epicelite]

Naw see on a non-base defense map the SBH is really overpowered, cus you can just stroll right into the GDI base and plant your becon or whatever. GDI cannot do that unless Nod is paying no attention at all.

[CRiX2k]

QUOTE (Demigan @ Sep 4 2008, 02:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you know how to REALLY use an SBH, it's one of the best characters in the game.

It's laser rifle has a moderate fire rate with pretty good damage vs both infantry and tanks. If you act as if you weren't invisible you can kill just about any infantry with it.

Also, the fact that you can hide away somewhere and use your pistol (which IS silenced, unless your standing 4 feet away) is great. In both under and field I kill hotwires and engineers repairing the tanks outside the nod base with the pistol, while they think they are being hit by artillery fire (a pistol usually leaves no damage indicator)

For snipers you can always check the weapon spawn for a shotgun (or if you're lucky a sniper) and then just stand sideways of the enemy snipers and pump their heads full of lead.

The only thing is: most people are afraid of being discovered. Thus negating the great advantage you have by being able to have that second to get the first few shots in.
Also, there is the minor disadvantage of a laser rifle that sounds almost louder then artillery fire, and most people think 'that's an easy target, let's get him!'
But, knowing that 100 infantry will run at you when you fire one of those rifles can be usefull in luring people away into your remote's or other big bad weapons.

Yours sincerely,
Demigan.[/b]

agreed, everyone is always afraid of being discovered when they have the sbh so they never use it. it is a good character and all, but the laser rifle sound is so loud and annoying... the other team hears it and singles you out and makes it their top priority that you dont get a chance to re-cloak... <_<

i wonder if the team will make the laser rifle a little quieter? or loud but not so annoying

[GummiBear]

QUOTE (NEFobbyGEN @ Sep 4 2008, 08:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't mean that. I meant Nod can mine the front of their base as well.[/b]

I am joking hence the

[Shark]

QUOTE (Jointn00b @ Sep 4 2008, 10:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

an sbh can actually be quite usefull in non base defence maps a team of 4 sbh's can actually kill a building by placing c4 and shooting mct. also in combo with an apc you can 'stealth' nuke a building by making the apc a distraction and defence at the same time[/b]

Even 2 SBH can do those things. 2 timed demolish most of the building and then start shooting the building with laser rifles.

[omega79]

QUOTE (epicelite @ Sep 5 2008, 01:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Naw see on a non-base defense map the SBH is really overpowered, cus you can just stroll right into the GDI base and plant your becon or whatever. GDI cannot do that unless Nod is paying no attention at all.[/b]

nonsense .... if you play long enough you know it is nonsense
i played hundreds of matches on non-defense maps, they are pretty well ballanced
in fact i love non-defense maps very much ... islands my absolute favourite
it all depends on the team, you can't say that often and loud enough

[R315r4z0r]

QUOTE (epicelite @ Sep 5 2008, 06:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Naw see on a non-base defense map the SBH is really overpowered, cus you can just stroll right into the GDI base and plant your becon or whatever. GDI cannot do that unless Nod is paying no attention at all.[/b]

You're right, but GDI can do other things Nod can't do. The point is that it is what makes the teams different and what makes the game fun. SBHs are not over powered. And I'm saying that from a GDI preference.

[MightyBOB]

QUOTE (CRiX2k @ Sep 5 2008, 12:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

agreed, everyone is always afraid of being discovered when they have the sbh so they never use it. it is a good character and all, but the laser rifle sound is so loud and annoying... the other team hears it and singles you out and makes it their top priority that you dont get a chance to re-cloak... <_<[/b]

If I'm on GDI and the server has weapon drops on I'll use that to my advantage if I kill an SBH and get his rifle.

If I encounter another SBH in my base I'll just upen up on him with the Laser Rifle which will immediately attract my team as they think the sound of fire is from an enemy. And sometimes my sudden loud burst of fire scares the SBH into firing back so then there's double the sound effect attracting my team faster.

[Demigan]

Tnx for the congratulations!

And you are totally right: the game is balanced.

The SBH is a good character, but it's problem is that organising (team)tactics with him is hard. They would be usefull as an anti-vehicle defence, but no-one uses it that way really.

The gunner, it's counterpart, deals a lot more damage then the laser rifle. His tendency to have a harder time aiming on the long shots and being quite a good target for infantry negates this. On base defence maps they can be the ticket to victory in an coördinated attack.

We can compare others too, but they are balanced too:

Patch is great anti-infantry unit, good health and armor, great damage. Of all fast firering weapons, only the volt rifle can outmaster him in damage vs infantry, and then only when you use headshots.

It's counterpart, the laser chaingun black hand, uses a weapon that's incredible as a base defence weapon. It fires incredible amounts of lasers dealing massive damage for it's price against vehicles. It's laser spread also makes it an ideal weapon vs infantry as you do not have to aim so precicely as with other weapons in renegade, and it has a pretty nasty hit even against those same infantry.

So, balanced, keep it. No changes. The fact that there ARE differences between the teams always made the C&C mode so perfect.

Yours sincerely,

Demigan.

[peacekeeper]

QUOTE (Combine 108 @ Sep 3 2008, 02:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To me (I may be wrong), Nod's specialty is characters. And things that do magic. GDI makes up for that with sheer firepower. Plus, walking on tiberium isn't really all that special.

You have a point with the PIC suit, although I dont think any gameplay changes should be made. i suggest we move the alternate blue costume for the 1k sydney over to the tib rifle sydney as an alternate costume, and leave the Protoype Suit costume for the 1k sydney, so no one would get confused as to why the blue outfit takes as much damage as the prototype suit. Just my two cents.[/b]

What about Mendoza,Raveshaw and mutant Raveshaw are they still in the gameplay

[R315r4z0r]

Wow, necrobump..

GDI have their own versions of the same characters.

[Lucifer]

QUOTE (epicelite @ Sep 3 2008, 03:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Also why do tanks have armor? Shouldn't it all be health?

I mean infantry have it because when you fall you lose health and not armor. So why do tanks and stuff have it lol?[/b]

Because a Tank has Armour.
Then underneath the armour is the tanks engine and mechanisms which allows the turret to fire and the tank to move. But also, most importantly, the person inside controlling the damn thing.

It makes more sense for tanks to have the 'armour' part as well.

QUOTE (Combine 108 @ Sep 3 2008, 06:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

why the blue outfit takes as much damage as the prototype suit. Just my two cents.[/b]

Because it's a friggin' game. <_<


I disagree with the Op of this thread, who the hell complains about those characters now? Or at all? Honestly.
We all know that NOD are the ones with the better technology, the story-line always makes sure of this.
But also, we all know that GDI have Brute force and greater numbers, the story-line always makes sure of this.

[Techno]

You could argue that GDI has the advantage with vehicles. Medium tanks are the best all around ground vechs in terms of cost/firepower/speed/armor ratio. Also, NOD has a REALLY crappy APC that can not fit through the cracks on City Flying. GDI's 450 credit Patch is much better then NOD's equivalent 450 credit Laser Chain Rifle.

The AGT and defense towers can attack more then one target at a time, which can reveal an entire SBH rush. GDI also has the more powerful rocket launcher for 400 credits, which I would rather have anyday over NOD's equivalent 400 credit SBH.

Renegade is a very balanced game, just because one team has a cool weapon/character doesn't mean your team doesn't have one too. Judging by your previous thread about the Ramjet rifle, some thing tells me you aren't well versed with the game.