Agent Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 Recently it seems Former Developers were removed from the Closed Beta Testing forums, as well as the internal ones, without any communication as to why. It seems counter productive to kick former developers out of the closed beta/alpha testing, a group which is very likely to provide valuable feedback, as well as to remove former developers from the internal forums, where they might provide context and information that might otherwise be lost on various topics. It may also send the wrong message to various former developers that they're no longer welcome to rejoin or are unwelcome otherwise, potentially reducing the candidate pool available to easily recruit from. It may also be interpreted offensively, even if no offense is intended. If the changes are intended to be more targeted in nature, then that simply seems rather petty, and does not paint a very positive image of what remains of the team. I sadly cannot come up with any constructive rationale for choosing to reduce access to former developers and leads, the effects all seem rather negative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Posted July 17, 2021 Author Share Posted July 17, 2021 And I suppose thinking about it further, these changes must be at least somewhat targeted, as at least 2 of the former developers impacted by the change were also originally closed beta testers, and no longer have access. The only reasonably conclusion that can be drawn without clarification is that leadership has become unnecessarily petty. I'm not aware of any case where anybody has had their closed beta testing access revoked, and as far as I'm aware, the only circumstance that would've occurred in the past were if someone leaked builds or other not-for-public information. Even pruning in the past on Discord I want to say was only on the discord side; there was always value to maintaining a decently sized mailing list for when a new round of beta testing needed to be whipped up. I could be mistaken though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 Also, for anybody on the team not already aware, the revocation of tester access directly violates agreement regarding recent events: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Posted July 19, 2021 Author Share Posted July 19, 2021 (edited) For transparency, there has been a conclusion to this conversation. Apparently, the team's stance is that testers are not those who have access to testing resources, but rather those who are aware of how to install the test client: I'll move on from the topic for now, however aspiring developers should be aware of how predecessors are treated. Edited July 20, 2021 by Handepsilon censored the json link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Arts Staff Madkill40 Posted July 23, 2021 Totem Arts Staff Share Posted July 23, 2021 You could also be considered petty for posting this publicly rather than speaking to them as a group directly? On 7/20/2021 at 12:52 AM, Agent said: I'll move on from the topic for now, however aspiring developers should be aware of how predecessors are treated. This especially comes across as trying to 'shake the tower' as it were, be it intentional or not, by besmirching the team as a whole when one user may have just made a mistake. [unintended or not] Just wanted to point this out. As you are a former developer you're well aware how digging up past drama [as correlation or not] can be damaging to the community. But hey, your 'Former Developers' is there, as it was when it first appeared so I assume this was just a 'blip in the system' right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Arts Staff NodSaibot Posted July 23, 2021 Totem Arts Staff Share Posted July 23, 2021 (edited) I for one would like to be able to see the progress on the project that I made a major contribution to, especially when I originally started playing this game as a beta tester. (I also lost access to beta testing recently.) Edited July 23, 2021 by NodSaibot 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Posted July 23, 2021 Author Share Posted July 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Madkill40 said: You could also be considered petty for posting this publicly rather than speaking to them as a group directly? Posting publicly was the last resort. I'd attempted repeatedly to contact Fobby directly, as well as to try to remedy in the same group chat as agreement was formed (which includes Fobby, Sonny, and 4Horsemen). I'd also attempted to try to get someone to speak on the public Discord when messages continued to be ignored, but was simply met with a "no". I have sent Fobby 40 direct messages, spread across 7 different days, in addition to the group chat messages, since his last response to me on June 14 about a variety of issues. First messaged about losing internal access on July 13th, then messaged about losing testing access on July 14th. I then moved on and messaged in the group chat on July 18th @ 12:55 AM, notifying that there had been a willful violation of our agreement and that it was at risk of being terminated. In that communication I mentioned a variety of things I would like to discuss, that all items were perfectly negotiable, and that ultimately I just wanted to get a conversation going to try to resolve as many issues as possible. No reply was received until well over 24 hours later on July 19 @ 2:51 PM. I greatly prefer private communications rather than public, however given that they have taken away all private communication channels to the team directly, and actively refused to respond to messages (going so far as to direct team members not to interact), unfortunately the only option I could think of which remained to try to gain attention was to post publicly on the forums. The lack of communication only exacerbates my concerns that leadership will decide to further violate agreements. I do also feel that current, former, and future team members should be informed of affairs and developments, since I have no way to know how informed the team actually is of current leadership decisions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMayhew Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 Makes no sense for a former lead and a former senior programmer to lose access to the testing and the internal forums. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Arts Staff Madkill40 Posted July 23, 2021 Totem Arts Staff Share Posted July 23, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Agent said: The lack of communication only exacerbates my concerns that leadership will decide to further violate agreements. I do also feel that current, former, and future team members should be informed of affairs and developments, since I have no way to know how informed the team actually is of current leadership decisions. I'd imagine those who terminate their membership willingly and those that are terminated differently result in different reactions regarding post-team membership? 1 hour ago, Agent said: I have sent Fobby 40 direct messages, spread across 7 different days, in addition to the group chat messages That comes across as harassment and probably made the end result worse for yourself in the long run. I do think that termination of being a Phase 5 Beta Tester is somewhat unfair, however given the circumstances of your termination there might be some underpinning factors which you have not been honest about within regards to your issue(s) here. I, however, will not make assumptions about what the underpinning factors might be. Edited July 23, 2021 by Madkill40 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Posted July 23, 2021 Author Share Posted July 23, 2021 The only significant underpinning I'm aware of is that I had previously been trying to negotiate for an apology from the team for causing damages, which obviously provoked much controversy and issues back in May, and in exchange for which I was willing to wave any liability for those damages. To be entirely honest, I'd fully believed that given time, they would've reflected on the events and become open to that possibility. I was clearly incorrect, but I'm still not sure if those requests were what provoked restricting access or not. Prior to accesses being removed, my last communication to Fobby had been a single message sent on July 4, and before that, a single message sent on June 17. I'd for the most part quit bothering about it once it started to become increasingly obvious that they simply were not interested in an apology, even in exchange for waiving liability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Posted July 23, 2021 Author Share Posted July 23, 2021 13 minutes ago, Madkill40 said: I'd imagine those who terminate their membership willingly and those that are terminated differently result in different reactions regarding post-team membership? Honestly I'd assume so, but as screenshotted in the third post, I'd agreed to transfer the domain and discord and such in part because of the assurance that there would still be regular tester access and more or less treated the same as any other former dev. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Arts Staff NodSaibot Posted July 23, 2021 Totem Arts Staff Share Posted July 23, 2021 I left the team willingly and was even asked to come back after I had left already. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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