kick for no reason

[Hicks]

Hello everyone, I am writing because I wonder if it is permissible to kick people from public servers for no reason, except that two people wanted to take over a public server to win a game against anyone.
I start from the beginning, I joined a server with a game started 1v1 + 1 bot. after a couple of minutes I destroy the airstrip and my partner changes teams. After a few minutes only the Nod refinery remains intact. At that point they start kicking me off the server playing alone against nobody and every time I tried to get back they kicked me out again. I understand this attitude if it were a private server but it was a public server and therefore accessible and usable by everyone.
Everything happened around 15:00 -15: 15 Italian time, about 15 - 30 minutes ago, on the Cynthia vanilla server and the nicknames of the two lamers are cuckroachking and stopdropkiller.
In the video a few seconds in which I enter the game and they immediately kick me out for no reason!
is it possible to ask for measures for these two lamers?

[Backfromhell]

First: I'am not defending this 2 player

It's annoying that something like this happens, but one question first:

Did you start demolishing the buildings?

Is really more of a rhetorical question, as it may be that the two played against each other just for fun. Maybe they both had agreed to keep the buildings intact. Not everyone opens their own server, Cynthia's server is also one of those where there are not often players.

When I was still active, I was often on Try's server and we wanted to look at the maps (new ones). I don't know when that was exactly, but a player keeps joining with the main goal of destroying everything. We didn't kick him because it wasn't and is not our style. We then destroyed the bases of several maps ourselves (the map ended as we know) and after a few maps he didn't feel like it anymore.

Did we enjoy it? No

I have no idea whether and what prerequisites were in your case, there are also players who kick others so that they can continue to play alone.

It's a shame, but it's true.

Little advice: don't get angry. it's not worth worrying about.

[Hicks]

Hi, I wrote that I demolished most of their base, so yes I destroyed the buildings! But at this point if they didn't want something like this to happen:
1) Why did they start shooting at their enemy structures? I entered when the game had already started and the enemy bases were firing.
2) If you didn't want to destroy the enemy base why didn't they say so? Anyone who knows me knows that I am a fair person and if you want to play with me by putting the rules I certainly don't violate them.
They just started kicking me saying they were free to do it! it is mainly for this reason that I wrote here, for their arrogance!

[Backfromhell]

I did not say that you are guilty ;)

so seems like you had to guys which was trolling.  I heared that you a friendly player, btw ( no ironie)

[Hicks]

It probably is and it's one more reason to take action I think.

[NodSaibot]

Moderator actions on Cynthia's server are up to @Cynthia, unless they are breaking global rules.

[CoolAid]

Yesterday a known person trolled me because he thought my heroic mammy was too OP. He openend a kick poll vote on me when i was bussy and i happened to miss it. After that he wanted to steal the mammy. For some reason my team mates didnt press F2 also. So I got kicked from the server and had to rejoin. But i lost all score and for some reason the vehicle kills counter was also reset to 0. Is this ment to be as a punishment or is it a bug? The Veterancy and K/D counter was still the same, it was still there.

Edited March 20, 2021 by CoolAid

[CoolAid]

A new idea. Please add a warning pop-up message also when someone opened a vote kick about you. That way it's almost impossible to miss it.

[NodSaibot]

36 minutes ago, CoolAid said:

Yesterday a known person trolled me because he thought my heroic mammy was too OP. He openend a kick poll vote on me when i was bussy and i happened to miss it. After that he wanted to steal the mammy. For some reason my team mates didnt press F2 also. So I got kicked from the server and had to rejoin. But i lost all score and for some reason the vehicle kills counter was also reset to 0. Is this ment to be as a punishment or is it a bug? The Veterancy and K/D counter was still the same, it was still there.

Just a bug that stats don't carry over

  

34 minutes ago, CoolAid said:

A new idea. Please add a warning pop-up message also when someone opened a vote kick about you. That way it's almost impossible to miss it.

It will be in next patch.

[mouse705]

9 hours ago, Sarah. said:

Moderator actions on Cynthia's server are up to @Cynthia, unless they are breaking global rules.

Except this goes higher than a Mod issue. It's a Dev issue because this game allows griefing. Until that is fixed, the mods are overwhelmed with issues, or theyre afk (due to low community health, which is also a dev issue, not a mod issue).

1. Too easy to change nick to grief. I recognize those names and noticed they change nicks. Saw them grief/spam votes on another day. We can take screenshots, but they can change nick. Not saying to change this, but pointing out how easy 2 and below are, because of nick change.
2. Kick vote without needing to give a reason. Does the server log kick votes, who started them, and why? If the why isnt there, then how can I mod check if kick is being abused? Until then it's a dev issue.  Kick vote needs a list to finalize: kick for: griefing, afk, team sabotage, etc. (Then the kickee knows the accusation and can quickly say "no im not afk" or "no I didnt do x.")
3. Kick vote with no cooldown = dev issue. OP explained how he was kicked many times on a public server. This is possible because of griefers. So what if Mod is asleep? = dev issue if game doesnt have counters for griefing 24/7.
4. There is no set rule for whether players can nuke when less than 12 players. So there's always going to be 1) arguments or 2) new players join and dont know the agreement = angry players or griefers.
5. Spamming map-change votes and fake map change votes to distract/waste time.
6. Do all the server mods still post here? How do we contact them? The issue is this community is so old, some leave, others join - that theres a void of information of how to report things, to who, where.

Im not blaming devs for their progress and still needing to refine things. But I am saying it's a dev issue that only devs can fix - when it's possible for 100 people to grief per day, more than a mod can address in time. Everyday I play, I also see bored griefers spamming the survey vote as a distraction.

• Survey votes should be team only, to reduce incentive to grief - or else a genuine reason to team kick.
• Map-change votes should be disabled for X minutes upon loading a new map. Everyday someone votes to change the map to grief, after a vote was already made. This is in a 64 full server with people waiting to get in. So if one doesn't like a map, they need to leave, not force 63 players and the server to waste resources to load another map.

Edited March 21, 2021 by mouse705

[NodSaibot]

14 hours ago, mouse705 said:

 

There are plenty of tools at the disposable of server owners and moderators, but they have to use them. We globally log most actions, including starting votes.

We are able to track name changes and who they are, so that is not an issue.

Votes are on a 60 second cooldown, map votes even higher cooldown.

Rules are up to the server owner, we can't and will not try to moderate every playstyle, whether or not people like it or not. Same exact thing for defenders or "killwhores". What they do may annoy you, but that's not our problem. That's just how the game is.

Ask ingame with a !modrequest.

A lot of the issues you are describing, are solved by Official servers, which is why we have them. Not being able to contact mods, vague or no rules, mod inactivity, etc. I have been a moderator/server admin for years, I am aware of all the tools we have and how to use them, and they are sufficient to moderate any server. Whether or not the owners/mods of the server decide to use them, is a different issue, and not one I, nor the team, can solve for you.

[stopdropkiller]

On 3/21/2021 at 12:12 AM, mouse705 said:

Except this goes higher than a Mod issue. It's a Dev issue because this game allows griefing. Until that is fixed, the mods are overwhelmed with issues, or theyre afk (due to low community health, which is also a dev issue, not a mod issue).

1. Too easy to change nick to grief. I recognize those names and noticed they change nicks. Saw them grief/spam votes on another day. We can take screenshots, but they can change nick. Not saying to change this, but pointing out how easy 2 and below are, because of nick change.
2. Kick vote without needing to give a reason. Does the server log kick votes, who started them, and why? If the why isnt there, then how can I mod check if kick is being abused? Until then it's a dev issue.  Kick vote needs a list to finalize: kick for: griefing, afk, team sabotage, etc. (Then the kickee knows the accusation and can quickly say "no im not afk" or "no I didnt do x.")
3. Kick vote with no cooldown = dev issue. OP explained how he was kicked many times on a public server. This is possible because of griefers. So what if Mod is asleep? = dev issue if game doesnt have counters for griefing 24/7.
4. There is no set rule for whether players can nuke when less than 12 players. So there's always going to be 1) arguments or 2) new players join and dont know the agreement = angry players or griefers.
5. Spamming map-change votes and fake map change votes to distract/waste time.
6. Do all the server mods still post here? How do we contact them? The issue is this community is so old, some leave, others join - that theres a void of information of how to report things, to who, where.

Im not blaming devs for their progress and still needing to refine things. But I am saying it's a dev issue that only devs can fix - when it's possible for 100 people to grief per day, more than a mod can address in time. Everyday I play, I also see bored griefers spamming the survey vote as a distraction.

• Survey votes should be team only, to reduce incentive to grief - or else a genuine reason to team kick.
• Map-change votes should be disabled for X minutes upon loading a new map. Everyday someone votes to change the map to grief, after a vote was already made. This is in a 64 full server with people waiting to get in. So if one doesn't like a map, they need to leave, not force 63 players and the server to waste resources to load another map.

I am Stopdropkiller, the reason why we continued to kick Hicks was because me and a friend were playing 1v1 since I am new to the game in a empty server.  Hicks continued to rush the base with Humvees and played as the Scientist dude and continued to rush base and take down structures when my friend cuckroachking and I were playing peacefully and testing out controls/characters/vehicles.  That fact that Mouse705 is flagrantly lying about us being griefers for having seen us both when it was literally my first day playing the game is laughable.  What Hicks also does not say is how he would literally come in and try to base rush again after being kicked when we asked him to not to.  For a time he did not join but then got another person/friend to join the server and immediately proceeded to taunt about how he could not be kicked now that he had an ally.  Unfortunately my game then crashed on map change and I haven't played since.  I'm glad Hicks gets to portray himself as the victim but I find myself not wishing to come back to the game after not only he but this Mouse guy also claims falsehoods, maybe it's the toxic people like you two that the community suffers. This will most likely be my one and only post let alone foray into the game, hope you enjoy your future games.

Edited March 22, 2021 by stopdropkiller
Addition

[NodSaibot]

15 minutes ago, stopdropkiller said:

I am Stopdropkiller, the reason why we continued to kick Hicks was because me and a friend were playing 1v1 since I am new to the game in a empty server.  Hicks continued to rush the base with Humvees and played as the Scientist dude and continued to rush base and take down structures when my friend cuckroachking and I were playing peacefully and testing out controls/characters/vehicles.  That fact that Mouse705 is flagrantly lying about us being griefers for having seen us both when it was literally my first day playing the game is laughable.  What Hicks also does not say is how he would literally come in and try to base rush again after being kicked when we asked him to not to.  For a time he did not join but then got another person/friend to join the server and immediately proceeded to taunt about how he could not be kicked now that he had an ally.  Unfortunately my game then crashed on map change and I haven't played since.  I'm glad Hicks gets to portray himself as the victim but I find myself not wishing to come back to the game after not only he but this Mouse guy also claims falsehoods, maybe it's the toxic people like you two that the community suffers. This will most likely be my one and only post let alone foray into the game, hope you enjoy your future games.

It sounds like a big misunderstanding. If you need a server, I can start one for you and your friends to learn on or whatever, it's not issue. Communication is key to working together

[mouse705]

1. 9 hours ago, stopdropkiller said:

   we continued to kick Hicks was because me and a friend were playing 1v1

   Sounds like a personal issue. 64p public servers are not made for personal 1v1. If you had an issue with him wanting to play in public, then you needed to leave to an empty server, or start a private match with your friend. Thus it was not justification to kick him.

2. 10 hours ago, stopdropkiller said:

   Hicks continued to rush the base with Humvees and played as the Scientist dude and continued to rush base and take down structures

   This is not a kickable offense on a public server. If you had said he planted a beacon, then this would be a dev issue: community request to disable beacons until player count is at least [X]. However what you said may also be a reason to disable building destruction for [T] minutes and/or while under [Y] players.

3. 10 hours ago, stopdropkiller said:

   when my friend cuckroachking and I were playing peacefully and testing out controls/characters/vehicles.

    Only the technology of Nod war-machines brings peace, and thus him bringing peace through war, was not a kickable offense.

4. 10 hours ago, stopdropkiller said:

   That fact that Mouse705 is flagrantly lying about us being griefers for having seen us both

   Are you talking about me? I didn't lie. I did not claim I was in that match. I said I recognize those names as griefers. Thus if it wasn't you who I saw, then would it surprise you that someone can make a similar name? "Cuckroachking" sounds like a troll name, and thus it would be associated with trolling. As for what he described, you gotta admit it sounds like kick griefing for personal reasons.

5. 9 hours ago, stopdropkiller said:

   What Hicks also does not say is how he would literally come in and try to base rush again after being kicked when we asked him to not to.

   Still not a kickable offense: you don't own the server and cannot demand that he not destroy in the game, unless he agrees. This again is a dev issue that should be voteable for low player count, or destruction disabled.

6. 10 hours ago, stopdropkiller said:

   For a time he did not join but then got another person/friend to join the server and immediately proceeded to taunt about how he could not be kicked now that he had an ally.

   This could be interpreted as category 1 toxicity. But taunts are legal in the game, with a built-in mechanic. And since you had been grief kicking him for playing the game where non-destruction was not agreed upon, then a neutral party could see he had a reason to taunt about not being grief kicked anymore.

7. 10 hours ago, stopdropkiller said:

   I'm glad Hicks gets to portray himself as the victim but I find myself not wishing to come back to the game after not only he but this Mouse guy also claims falsehoods

   Did you just assume my gender? That's very racist of you. But your other statement sounds like a suggestion to the devs to enact the Building Protection Act = disable beacons and destruction while player count is under [X] or [Y].

8. 10 hours ago, stopdropkiller said:

   maybe it's the toxic people like you two that the community suffers.

   I did not say anything toxic. I gave a list of issues and suggestions for the devs to prevent griefing. Fix: "Kick vote without needing to give a reason." The fact that you confessed to kick another player, for wanting to play 1v1 with your friend on a public server - shows that you were toxic towards him. And thus a reason for devs to institute mandatory kick reasons with the kick vote - so the accused & voters know the reason.

9. 10 hours ago, stopdropkiller said:

   This will most likely be my one and only post let alone foray into the game, hope you enjoy your future games.

   It is illogical to complain about an issue in war, then not stay to see the reply/outcome. As Dev Sarah said, it seems to be a misunderstanding. I'm not sure why you're accusing me of anything. The names mentioned seem familiar to me as grief names. Thus this again relates to how easy it is to change nicks to catfish or grief.

10. 10 hours ago, stopdropkiller said:

    hope you enjoy your future games

    Indeed. Thank you. The only future is the peace of Nod.

[Backfromhell]

Important and first: No outsider who was not involved will be able to judge what happened and how. Cynthia could possibly see this on the logs, but that wouldn't change the fact that you are arguing.

I don't want to bring any qoutes in here because they would go completely beyond the scope.

From a neutral point of view, I unfortunately know both sides from the past.

1. I also think that certain settings should remain server owner settings, as this preserves a little more variety. As an example: No nukes under 10 players. it's just an example.

2. There are enough people who can't just set up their own server (I belong too, I don't understand it). I haven't played actively for years (Pub Games9, but I watched new maps for a while.

3. An alternative is for those (mentioned under point 2) to go to servers that are rarely used. They are public but the possibility that they join there (unless all servers are empty) is low.

4. Another server like Sarah mentioned, even if public would not be able to solve this.

 

I think you 4 should discuss this privately and objectively and maybe look at the perspective from the other side.

my last 2 cents on the subject.

[Hicks]

14 hours ago, stopdropkiller said:

I am Stopdropkiller, the reason why we continued to kick Hicks was because me and a friend were playing 1v1 since I am new to the game in a empty server.  Hicks continued to rush the base with Humvees and played as the Scientist dude and continued to rush base and take down structures when my friend cuckroachking and I were playing peacefully and testing out controls/characters/vehicles.  That fact that Mouse705 is flagrantly lying about us being griefers for having seen us both when it was literally my first day playing the game is laughable.  What Hicks also does not say is how he would literally come in and try to base rush again after being kicked when we asked him to not to.  For a time he did not join but then got another person/friend to join the server and immediately proceeded to taunt about how he could not be kicked now that he had an ally.  Unfortunately my game then crashed on map change and I haven't played since.  I'm glad Hicks gets to portray himself as the victim but I find myself not wishing to come back to the game after not only he but this Mouse guy also claims falsehoods, maybe it's the toxic people like you two that the community suffers. This will most likely be my one and only post let alone foray into the game, hope you enjoy your future games.

I'll clarify your ideas a little because apparently you remember badly.
1) You weren't trying the controls peacefully when I entered as you were shooting at each other's structures.
2) If you had any game needs, for example not to kill the structures or you needed some advice or simply an explanation on the game mechanics or an explanation on the purpose of each single character I would have been happy to help you! It was enough to use a little education and ask!
3) The first time you took the vote to kick me I told you that this was a public server and that you couldn't take it all for yourself, you replied that you were free to kick me and therefore you would continue to do so!
4) I went in with a friend of mine to let you know that this was a public server and not a private one for your personal use and yes I taunt you by challenging you to kick me again after you did it six or seven times!
5) From all this I have learned that next time I call the server admin to take action.
6) RenegadeX is a small community and we are happy when there are new players but if I have to choose between staying a small community as we are or a large community full of people like you I prefer the first choice!

[Agent]

Quote

[08:50:48] Hicks: hi
[09:08:31] Hicks: WHY KICK ME?!? tHIS IS A PUBLIC SERVER
[09:08:43] CuckroachKing: youre being a tryhard and ruining the fun
[09:09:02] Hicks: this is a public server
[09:09:13] Hicks: i will rejoin and rejoin and rejoin
[09:09:14] CuckroachKing: meaning kicks are free
[09:09:15] Stopdropkiller: We're exercising our public right to kick you
[09:10:02] Hicks: your only weapon is the kick if you want wion the game noob
[09:52:30] Hicks: lol i am here only for inform you that i segnalated you on renx forum
[09:52:33] Hicks: bb
[10:00:29] Hicks: kick me now
[10:04:38] Hicks: i have segnalated they also on renx forum
[10:05:07] CuckroachKing: what is segnalated
[10:05:30] Hicks: nothing... read the ufficiall renx forum
[10:05:39] CuckroachKing: what is ufficiall
[10:06:09] Hicks: why now dont kick me again?=
[10:06:21] CuckroachKing: what language are you attempting to use
[10:06:41] Hicks: ok... kick me again if you can!
[10:06:58] CuckroachKing: why? my friend i was playing with and trying to teach is gone
[10:07:06] CuckroachKing: no need to kick a mega try hard
[10:07:13] helloiwin: from where you are coming cuck...
[10:07:28] CuckroachKing: i respawned at GDI base
[10:11:14] Hicks: CUCK PLAY ALONE MAY BE YOU CAN WIN
[12:23:14] Hicks: hi
[12:32:39] Lipster: two heads are indeed better than 1

Please do not intentionally rejoin a server, repeatedly, after being kicked from said server. Players are free to do as they wish on public servers, including trying to organize a small play session and kicking whatever players for whatever reason they may so choose, absent server rules otherwise (official servers being an example of prohibiting both of those things) or global rules otherwise (kicks must not be used as a tool for harassment). Perhaps we need to implement a minimum amount of time before a player is allowed to rejoin after being vote kicked.

I'll pitch the idea internally of having a public private server (passworded, but with the password in the title), to facilitate small groups being able to play together without as much interference.

Also, there's absolutely no need to be rude to eachother. Since the topic isn't going to produce further constructive conversation, the thread is locked.