Field

[dtdesign]

Looking back at way too many games played on Field since it got it's update, the (highly subjective) experience was: GDI wins by default. Now, that's quite a strong point to begin with and I would like to go into detail, describing what lead me to that conclusion:

First of all, the biggest change to Field was the addition of the Power Plant. It adds another possibility to take down base defenses (AGT/OB) while hampering a team's ability to purchase infantry/vehicles. All though a really great idea, the current placement and map design make it a dead-easy to siege the PP. Whoever controls the field already has the upper hand in terms of credits income by easily farming the Harvester, including the significant VP reward.

On top of that vehicles are able to siege PP out of perfect safety, only exposed to the vehicle entrance and the rock top next to it. I have witnessed far too many games where GDI was stacking meds/mammoth at Nod tib field having the day of their lives shooting PP and any arty dumb enough to roll into their gunfire. This is getting worse with the 2-3 MRLS sitting at the opposite edge of the map, happily smashing their stack of missiles into the PP.

This creates a situation where GDI farms both Credits and VP by simply killing the Harvester and hitting the PP, while Nod has a low cash income. In the end we have Artys that either do no significant damage or get insta-popped by tanks, paired with Sakuras trying to fight off the MRLS only to get headshoted because the top of the rocks is pretty much the only viable spot. Oh, did I forget that Sakura is reaaaaally expensive if your Harvester gets harvested 24/7?

 

The second issue is the placement of the Nod refinery, it is far too easy to sneak into Ref through the back path. Obelisk only triggers without giving any indication of the target's direction, making people wonder if this is the strip path, ref path, main entrance or side vehicle entrance. Before the change, it was only possible to run into the Nod ref's front door, requiring at least a Gunner or Sydney to take out the mines. This leads to games where the ref blows up far too often, especially in situation where Nod is already under pressure in terms of PP/HoN.

 

The imbalance is caused by the variety of Nod tanks that usually underperform in a head-to-head combat, due to their special abilities. Stanks are great to ambush buildings or tanks, but almost completely useless when facing a medium or mammoth tank. Flamers are strong, but usually won't survive going around the slope, and by the way: Where do you take that cash from?

 

In my opinion (!), these issues can be somewhat adressed by hiding the PP behind rocks, forcing GDI to move in way more, exposing themselves to multiple attack angles. Perma sieging should be the cause of having the absolute superiority, not taking advantage of the map design allowing them to siege a building out of mere safety (similar to Nod artys sieging GDI ref on Islands).

 

One last word on this whole topic: I both understand and accept that some or all of my concerns above do not apply to PUGs. I also agree that an organized team is able to break through a strong GDI presence and build up infantry rushes to take down crucial buildings. Yet, this does not apply to public games and the level of organization on public games is mediocre at best. Sure, we can put the blame of all the less experienced players, but in the end it leads to a general feeling of being helpless. We cannot allow the game  to focus around competitive (PUG) plays only, it needs to be fun to play in public games! Being able to claim victory should be because of good teamwork, not map design decisions.

 

[Madkill40]

The original issue before was the obvious and easy WF siege from Nod, I have seen Nod gain the upper-hand quite a few times and putting the GDI PP under constant siege, it would be nice to have the PPs covered more by rocks but 4 or more technicians can keep that powerplant up and running quite easily in a public game. 

A map can be changed loads but it will always come down to the teams themselves overcoming the enemy at their front door, I think players just underestimate the awesome tactic the secondary vehicle path enables. 

Nod have a much easier time getting inside the GDI WF/PP than GDI have at getting inside the Nod PP/HoN. 

Pros and cons, team dependency is a bitch sometimes.

[Luhrian]

15 hours ago, dtdesign said:

The second issue is the placement of the Nod refinery, it is far too easy to sneak into Ref through the back path. Obelisk only triggers without giving any indication of the target's direction, making people wonder if this is the strip path, ref path, main entrance or side vehicle entrance.

The placment is ok, if you have like 2 or 3 defenders and some eyes in the tunnels, it isn't easy to sneak into ref. I made that a few months ago very often and I know it is easy to prevent sneaking into the Nod ref.

 

And I have to add something here. It is about the Harvester Paths.

If you take the time of a GDI harvester attackable in the Field and the time of the Nod Harvester attackable in the Field, you see that the Nod Harvester is 15 seconds more in the Field. So GDI has 3 advantages here:

1. The Harvester is spawning closer to the Tiberium Field

2. The Harvester can survive easier, because the Harvester has a shorter time in the Field

3. GDI is getting the Harvester dumb earlier

It would be ok if we move the tib Field a bit closer to the Nod base.

 

[Canucck]

Field doesn't work with 60 players. It barely works with 40.

The "field formula" was to clear the tunnels enough to get ~30s (probably less) of free sniping time from the waterfall, kill engis and push one side out of the field. Even with 0 communication, your vehicles stuck in your base entrance would naturally push out if a sniper got that time to kill a few field engis on the other team.

With 40 players whichever side takes the tunnels first just keeps them, and unless that side abandons the tunnels the other team will never take them back unless they commit so many infantry that they'll be short on tanks+reps, negating the point of taking the tunnels in the first place. With 60 players it's just a clusterfuck with 30 people in the tunnels at all times, shit happens, and none of it makes any sense.

Adding a PP and more tunnels didn't really change any of that imo

 

Also fuck the silo, RIP barn

Edited March 8, 2017 by Canucck

[boxes]

The silo chimneys actually make it harder for Nod to shoot harvesters than GDI

[djlaptop]

I agree GDI has an advantage in Field. Every Nod building's PT is accessible by foot to GDI, while Nod can only reach PP and WF (without smoke tricks, etc).

Additionally, GDI can sneak through the tunnels to the PP without taking obelisk damage, while any Nod player passing the Bar/Ref tunnel entrance will take a shot or two from the AGT. This is true while destroying the rock-barriers as well.

That being said, Nod can certainly win this map but if we pulled the logs I'd bet you a donut that GDI wins more often than Nod.

[Madkill40]

21 minutes ago, djlaptop said:

I agree GDI has an advantage in Field. Every Nod building's PT is accessible by foot to GDI-

Pretty hard to reach that Hand of Nod on foot without a smoke grenade, just as hard to reach the GDI Barracks.

Maps like Field I can see put the mapper at a disadvantage because if the base is too open (i.e. GDI Ref more accessible) then players complain, however if a base is too closed (i.e. GDI Ref less accessible) then players complain. There's often a way round a siege, especially if you're on Nod because you have SBH and Stanks, it's pretty easy to ambush GDI's hotties and engis whereas GDI can just bulldoze their way through a Nod siege. 

Players need to think outside the box more, I'm not saying Field is perfect and maybe it's a consequence of the 60/60 player limit, but there's always an out. 

 

[djlaptop]

57 minutes ago, Madkill40 said:

Pretty hard to reach that Hand of Nod on foot without a smoke grenade, just as hard to reach the GDI Barracks.

 

It's definitely harder when the game is filled with players, but I've done it successfully in a real game before. If Nod ignores all those obelisk charges they deserve what they get.

[Luhrian]

That to Hand of Nod sneaking isn't a big problem, because it is nearly impossible to get without getting spotted.

[Madkill40]

20 hours ago, Luhrian said:

That to Hand of Nod sneaking isn't a big problem, because it is nearly impossible to get without getting spotted.

And any other team mate setting off the Obelisk delays you even more or gets you killed.

[Luhrian]

I have to add someting.

I was playing Field on the public server and sneaked into the Power Plant tunnel.

I opened the overview map and was watching the tunnel, that I can see the people who are entering the tunnel before they see me. So I was standing there and suddenly an Officer was shooting me in my face and he wasn't on the map.

The problem is, that the Nod base volume is including the tunnels to the Nod base and you can't see with the comm center the people in the enemy base on the overview map.

Selected Volume is the Base Volume

Just get the base volume out of the tunnel and it should be fixed.