Surfing Vehicles

[RoundShades]

I was thinking about surfing vehicles. PUG strats, that quite often waste a building very early. Makes no sense for the strategy to be as effective as it is. My opinion?

Vehicles, should do (reduced, over time, similar to tiberium) damage, to allies, that are "on top of" or "being pushed by", allied vehicles. EDIT: SUGGESTED BY FFFREAK9999: The push/ride damage should only start after 6 seconds of push/ride, and then be heavy enough not to make it all the way to the other base's structure doors (ballpark guess of 10 damage a second).

This way, you could technically still do surfs, just very short timing to load, and they arrive at enemy base at reduced health. Same with pushes, you can push an ally short distances out of enemy fire.

If possible, exempt harvesters, though that's hardly a normal concern.

Allied would be able to kill other allies, but technically, this already exists with "air surfing", and is considered "killing oneself". It's already like this in Planetside 2 to a greater extreme, so personal responsibility for mild amounts of damage, shouldn't be expecting too much of the player.

[Ryz]

What if people repair eachother on top of a vehicle?

[Hohndo]

I would actually like DoT on top of vehicles. People should not be on top of vehicles under any circumstance in this game.

It is technically against CT's rules as no one is intended to be there. It wasn't part of the design of the game, it's just possible in some circumstances. I don't know if it's actually enforced, but that's just something I'd have to ask Freak.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Hohndo

[yosh56]

2 minutes ago, Hohndo said:

It is technically against CT's rules as no one is intended to be there. It wasn't part of the design of the game, it's just possible in some circumstances.

False. It was accidental in beta 1, and banned on aircraft because you could snipe/Gunner Rush from on top of Trannys. Ground vehicle surfing was never banned and eventually accepted. 

I... honestly don't have that much of a problem with it on ground vehicles considering all the infantry still take splash damage. 

[Hohndo]

2 minutes ago, yosh56 said:

False. It was accidental in beta 1, and banned on aircraft because you could snipe/Gunner Rush from on top of Trannys. Ground vehicle surfing was never banned and eventually accepted. 

I... honestly don't have that much of a problem with it on ground vehicles considering all the infantry still take splash damage. 

Fair. At least it was originally unintentional. lol

Edited February 9, 2017 by Hohndo

[KrypTheBear]

Recently I've noticed this strat being used less and less due to this strategy being a gamble. 

If you're not being spotted, hooray, you get past everyone and blow up a building. Then aswell we could complain about early sneakers blowing up a building. 
If you're spotted then well, you get picked off that humwee/buggy. What I've seen once even was a clever engineer putting down remotes on Walls in the GDI vehicle entrance, denying that early buggy rush from even entering the base. 

It's a real gamble, and engineers don't have strong enough repair beams to repair each other fast enough. It was a surprise strategy when a couple of people started doing that, but now people are prepared for this. And even if we prevent people from surfing on top of vehicles, they can still just sit in front of the vehicle which makes no real difference. 

And as to why this is a gamble, if you lose your buggy you're already 350 creds low. This can delay all sorts of follow-up strategies, least for one person.

[KrypTheBear]

1 hour ago, Hohndo said:

It is technically against CT's rules as no one is intended to be there. It wasn't part of the design of the game, it's just possible in some circumstances. I don't know if it's actually enforced, but that's just something I'd have to ask Freak.

This applies to maps only. We don't have a rule that says you cannot abuse the game (otherwise Spoodbeasting would be prohibited), as long as you stay in the maps intended boundaries and don't use external programs. 

 

EDIT: Under this rule fall severe bugs on certain maps, e.g. Undisarmable Beacons or shooting out of locations you shouldn't be able to access, as these are not intended per map design. 

Edited February 9, 2017 by KrypTheBear

[yosh56]

Just now, KrypTheBear said:

This applies to maps only. We don't have a rule that says you cannot abuse the game (otherwise Spoodbeasting would be prohibited), as long as you stay in the maps intended boundaries and don't use external programs. 

I wouldn't say that... as that's a loaded gun ready to be fired... Granted for the most part it is true. 

[Hohndo]

I don't feel anyone should be vehicle surfing. At the very least not on aircraft solely because you can have repairs in the air that way.

Doesn't matter so much on the ground because regularly you can have repairs in the ground.

[Chrisjh0223]

On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 4:42 AM, YagiHige said:

Vehicles, should do (reduced, over time, similar to tiberium) damage, to allies, that are "on top of" or "being pushed by", allied vehicles.

This way, you could technically still do surfs, just very short timing to load, and they arrive at enemy base at reduced health. Same with pushes, you can push an ally short distances out of enemy fire.

If an ally pushes you and you take damage as a result, this can easily be seen as an asset to Griefers and Trolls who would exploit it. Imagine buying a 1K character (especially with destroyed Power Plant) only for a teammate to push and kill you. So I'm all against "being pushed by teammate" damage.

Same issue with deliberate friendly fire if friendly fire is enabled (ie. allied griefer sniper can instantly shoot your 1K unit's head).

[dtdesign]

I consider standing on top of vehicles to be some sort of glitch, which is backed by the completely awkward handling of movement and camera rotation when standing on top. There are basically two scenarios where vehicle surfing is used:

1. Stack half of the team on top of a single humvee/buggy: It has a reason these vehicles have a damn passenger limit!
2. Stand on top of a med/mammoth with a flamethrower and have your day, with the vehicle owner unable to damage you.

Both cases are weird and unless you put a lot of effort into it, you can't reach the top of a vehicle. I would like to see characters simply pushed off the vehicle, but damaging them always feels weird and I see no reason to do so.

[Luhrian]

I share the opinion from @Chrisjh0223

If you can get killed by your teammates some people will using that to hamper their team. For example, the barracks died and you are one of the last Hotwires. You go maybe from the Refinery to the Weapons Factory and somebody just drive over you.

But this thing can happen by accident, too. You just driving around a corner with a buggy and suddenly there is a Medonza and you just kill him.

Or you are fighting against another tank and must fall back. You can't look fast enough behind you and you drive over a technician.

That will be just annyoing. I stopped to play Planet Side 2, because I was very annoyed from that.

 

I think it will make more problems then it fix. But I can understand you, it is a little bit wired. 

 

[Fffreak9999]

Then the easiest solution to this would be to do damage to friendly units if they are moved by a vehicle for more than X seconds (15 seconds?)

This way there would only be damage done if the unit is pushed for a long time, and not accidentally.

[RoundShades]

Didn't think about that. Credited and edited in main post.

[Luhrian]

40 minutes ago, Fffreak9999 said:

Then the easiest solution to this would be to do damage to friendly units if they are moved by a vehicle for more than X seconds (15 seconds?)

This way there would only be damage done if the unit is pushed for a long time, and not accidentally.

That is a good idea and both sides should be good with that

[SvN91]

1 hour ago, Fffreak9999 said:

Then the easiest solution to this would be to do damage to friendly units if they are moved by a vehicle for more than X seconds (15 seconds?)

This way there would only be damage done if the unit is pushed for a long time, and not accidentally.

Is there really a need for a solution? It's not really that common and even if it happens it's not really that much of a problem. Vehicles shouid never be able to harm friendly players. Imagine if you have an expensive character and go afk for 20 seconds for a cup of coffee and you come back only to find out someone has pushed you to death.

If we are making vehicles do damage while pushing stuff I'm all for doing ramming damage to enemy vehicles (your own vehicle would take the same amount of damage). I have always wanted to crush a buggy with a mammoth.

[Fffreak9999]

6 minutes ago, SvN91 said:

Is there really a need for a solution? It's not really that common and even if it happens it's not really that much of a problem. Vehicles shouid never be able to harm friendly players. Imagine if you have an expensive character and go afk for 20 seconds for a cup of coffee and you come back only to find out someone has pushed you to death.

If we are making vehicles do damage while pushing stuff I'm all for doing ramming damage to enemy vehicles (your own vehicle would take the same amount of damage). I have always wanted to crush a buggy with a mammoth.

If you are going AFK in a location where a vehicle can reach you, then a soldier/sniper can reach you as well. Meaning you chose a poor place to go AFK.

Inside a building a vehicle cannot kill you and is a suitable "AFK" location for a minute but if you are killed, then thats a minor problem stemming from you AFK-ing.

As for ramming damage, I don't think that will be that good. Mammoth tanks (being the biggest vehicle) would decimate tanks in a full blockade, and realistically, I don't feel this would add much to the game.

[SvN91]

4 minutes ago, Fffreak9999 said:

If you are going AFK in a location where a vehicle can reach you, then a soldier/sniper can reach you as well. Meaning you chose a poor place to go AFK.

Inside a building a vehicle cannot kill you and is a suitable "AFK" location for a minute but if you are killed, then thats a minor problem stemming from you AFK-ing.

As for ramming damage, I don't think that will be that good. Mammoth tanks (being the biggest vehicle) would decimate tanks in a full blockade, and realistically, I don't feel this would add much to the game.

I still think that your team members never should be able to harm you. Besides, 15 seconds would probably be enough to push a hottie to the enemy base in most maps anyways so the time would have to be decreased even more. The shorter the time to higher the possibility that someone get killed by accident or by purpose.

[Fffreak9999]

The amount of time can easily be adjusted based on feedback and testing but some sort of timer would be advantageous to prevent outright abuse.

[Luhrian]

6 hours ago, SvN91 said:

The shorter the time to higher the possibility that someone get killed by accident or by purpose.

5 seconds are already enough. I mean if you push someone by accident you only push him for like 3 seconds and not through the whole base.

[RoundShades]

14 hours ago, SvN91 said:

I still think that your team members never should be able to harm you. Besides, 15 seconds would probably be enough to push a hottie to the enemy base in most maps anyways so the time would have to be decreased even more. The shorter the time to higher the possibility that someone get killed by accident or by purpose.

You can already kill teammates. You simply need to fly underneath the plateau, and fly under them so they land on you when jumping off, and then tilt them from walking off on their first guess. Bam, fall damage, coupled with air-vehicle damage. You've killed them.

I'm willing to "test killing teammates" in a server, just to show you, despite it being royally dickish.