Unwritten rules

[Truxa]

Hi all,

I'm just curious about something.

Map: Walls Flying

Subject: Sniping from unfair vantage point.

I was just on the TmX server and a TmX member was sniping from one of those notorious ledges where only air-vehicles can reach. Airlifting a sniper to that spot will only be killed by counter-sniping as there are no other means to reach that area other than by flight.

I'm curious about it being banned or it being an illegal activity as I recall it is somewhat frowned upon.

Now, since I do not want to name names (the person in question genuinely didnt know or was uncertain if it was allowed or not) I'd like to have a list of "unwritten server rules" per popular server host. It might be the case (because I love marathon more than AoW) that it's not allowed on EKT servers but is allowed on TmX servers.

Can anyone enlighten me (and the community) about those touchy subjects?

List of "unwritten rules":

-Sniping from ledges unreachable by foot. Ok or not ok?

-Vehicle surfing. (for as much thats still possible) Ok or not ok?

-Base-to-base airstrikes (e.g. islands) Ok or not ok?

-Arty shooting GDI ref @ Islands, wayyy back in the field on islands. Ok or not ok?

-"Wall climbing" where it is obviously not designed to be accessible by foot. Ok or not ok?

-Nuke-spam. (one nuke every 2-3 minutes) Ok or not ok?

-Vehicle "stealing". 2 or 3 players rush a field-crate (same team). Player 1 reaches the crate first and e.g. a Titan dropped. Player 2 or 3 get in that Titan as player 1 has to "search" for it. Ok or not ok?

-Nuking WF on the "suicide spot" (behind the air vents on the roof, jumping down in that dark area) Ok or not ok?

-Ion on top of the airstrip control tower, behind the glass, on that edge/ridge. Ok or not ok?

There are probably more "unwritten rules" or frowned upon events like mining. TmX tend to have a lower mine limit, thus limiting it to the doors only. Yet no action is taken when GDI mines the base entrance (on Walls e.g.) EKT tend to have a higher mine limit, but as time passes, a mutator reduces that limit every 10 minutes or so.

When do the mining rules apply and when dont they?

Hard questions for newbs to relate to.

[epicelite]

If you have to ask, its not okay.

[Bananas]

-Sniping from ledges unreachable by foot. Ok or not ok?

Fine on TmX, not sure about ekt.

-Vehicle surfing. (for as much thats still possible) Ok or not ok?

Fine since you take damage.

-Base-to-base airstrikes (e.g. islands) Ok or not ok?

Still base to base. Not allowed.

-Arty shooting GDI ref @ Islands, wayyy back in the field on islands. Ok or not ok?

Should be fine.

-"Wall climbing" where it is obviously not designed to be accessible by foot. Ok or not ok?

Depends on what it is.

-Nuke-spam. (one nuke every 2-3 minutes) Ok or not ok?

Shouldn't be a problem, but I think ekt and tmx have rules against spamming them.

-Vehicle "stealing". 2 or 3 players rush a field-crate (same team). Player 1 reaches the crate first and e.g. a Titan dropped. Player 2 or 3 get in that Titan as player 1 has to "search" for it. Ok or not ok?

Jerk move, probably would be frowned upon.

-Nuking WF on the "suicide spot" (behind the air vents on the roof, jumping down in that dark area) Ok or not ok?

Should be fixed.

-Ion on top of the airstrip control tower, behind the glass, on that edge/ridge. Ok or not ok?

Completely fine.

[salarite]

Sniping from ledges on walls unreachable on foot? Can you provide screenshots? I thought those positions were blocked out in an update.

Otherwise I completely agree with Bananas

[Truxa]

Walls sniping vantage points:

GDI base

Nod base

I tried reaching them on foot (from base side) but I encountered an invisible blocker preventing you to go up the mountain.

These are on both sides of the base.

Reason for asking is simply hearing mixed-reports on whats allowed and whats not allowed and where.

I'm not the person to use/abuse those advantages, I'm that person trying to instruct people on whats right or wrong. But when I see a TmX or EKT member doing something what is in my opinion wrong, I question if it is.

[Radeon3]

-Sniping from ledges unreachable by foot. Ok or not ok?

Personally I despise cheap playstyle (especially from advanced players), but this is ok on EKT. If I notice something dodgy I always check if both sides have the same access to it. If not, then it's clearly an unfair advantage. Then question if it was an intentinal place or an exploitation. I always check this by contacting Kenz. I would suggest you to do the same.

-Vehicle surfing. (for as much thats still possible) Ok or not ok?

I find it a funny but extremely rarely useful feature, so it's ok.

-Base-to-base airstrikes (e.g. islands) Ok or not ok?

B2B. No go.

-Arty shooting GDI ref @ Islands, wayyy back in the field on islands. Ok or not ok?

If it's really wayyyy back (not aware of such a spot) it sounds cheap. Would go through my procedure I mentioned above.

-"Wall climbing" where it is obviously not designed to be accessible by foot. Ok or not ok?

Nope, even kicked EKT guys for doing it. Whiteout is a grey area.

-Nuke-spam. (one nuke every 2-3 minutes) Ok or not ok?

Since B4 you can't effectively nuke-spam. Personally I see tactical value in it, but have to admit it makes no sense nuking your own buildings.

-Vehicle "stealing". 2 or 3 players rush a field-crate (same team). Player 1 reaches the crate first and e.g. a Titan dropped. Player 2 or 3 get in that Titan as player 1 has to "search" for it. Ok or not ok?

Worth a !warn, but it's difficult to deal with these issues.

-Nuking WF on the "suicide spot" (behind the air vents on the roof, jumping down in that dark area) Ok or not ok?

Can't do that anymore since 5.002.

-Ion on top of the airstrip control tower, behind the glass, on that edge/ridge. Ok or not ok?

Okay. (Maybe Handepsilon's piston will get included eventually to counter this a bit)

[Ryz]

Ion in the airstrip tower seems legit. You can just jump in it, but it requires skills. Like Nod doesn't have enough places to hide the beacon on the WF roof....

Edited August 3, 2015 by Guest

[Xtractor]

Saw GDI sniper at this point yesterday in island ,I dont think it should be allow

[Truxa]

Yes Cudaker, that is not allowed! It involves getting out of the map somewhere, swimming/walking to that area and snipe inside the Nod base.

There is no real way of countering that spot other than counter sniping and/or abusing the same exploit.

@Radeon.

Cheap spots on Walls is exactly why I despise it. Both team have same access to it (by flying) otherwise there is a no-go.

Just immagine Nod having no more airstrip and having a havoc/deadeye camping that spot having cheapshots. When out of ammo, just fly low and fly back, no harm from any class at all.

[Xtractor]

Yes Cudaker, that is not allowed! It involves getting out of the map somewhere, swimming/walking to that area and snipe inside the Nod base.

There is no real way of countering that spot other than counter sniping and/or abusing the same exploit.

.

some invisible walls should block these paths

[salarite]

Yes Cudaker, that is not allowed! It involves getting out of the map somewhere, swimming/walking to that area and snipe inside the Nod base.

There is no real way of countering that spot other than counter sniping and/or abusing the same exploit.

.

some invisible walls should block these paths

Agreed. When you see this happening, contact a mod. This kind of glitching is done by just one guy in most cases. Wonder when will he give up...

[kenz3001]

Saw GDI sniper at this point yesterday in island ,I dont think it should be allow

i thought i fixed this ... ill put a fix in that cant be exploited

[Xtractor]

Saw GDI sniper at this point yesterday in island ,I dont think it should be allow

i thought i fixed this ... ill put a fix in that cant be exploited

Youre The Man

[kenz3001]

[DoctorB0NG]

Yes Cudaker, that is not allowed! It involves getting out of the map somewhere, swimming/walking to that area and snipe inside the Nod base.

There is no real way of countering that spot other than counter sniping and/or abusing the same exploit.

.

some invisible walls should block these paths

Honestly the last thing this game needs is more random invisible walls. We need to come up with a more immersive way of blocking areas off without abrupt, intrusive walls.

For example: the seamless boundary for infantry in Canyon.

[RoundShades]

Yes Cudaker, that is not allowed! It involves getting out of the map somewhere, swimming/walking to that area and snipe inside the Nod base.

There is no real way of countering that spot other than counter sniping and/or abusing the same exploit.

.

some invisible walls should block these paths

Honestly the last thing this game needs is more random invisible walls. We need to come up with a more immersive way of blocking areas off without abrupt, intrusive walls.

For example: the seamless boundary for infantry in Canyon.

I am not going to lie, invisible walls are not abundant enough in this game. Just because a few bad places for them that aren't obvious got bad feedback, won't make me a sheeple in favor of removing all of them.

The lakeside air-blocking ones need replaced with a more visible alternative, and for instance the ones on the nod infantry walkway next to HON on Canyon should be gotten rid of, if you don't want infy hopping it then make the handguard slightly higher.

However, the Walls spots that air can get infantry on, should definitely be invisible walls, air should be going nowhere around the edges because they are obvious boudnaries to the map. And the ledges snipers can drop down onto from the top of plateau, just put a invisible slant surface against it, it will just look like it is actually too narrow to catch a foothold on which let's be honest that it is. Same with the rocks on the gdi/nod bunkers on xmountain, there should be no footing to climb that so make slanted invisible geometry.

I will cite MW1, MW2, and MW3, when I say that 1 and 2 had way too little invisible geometry and people found the shittiest way to get out the map, while 3 had invisible geometry on top of woven baskets that got you killed when it didn't make a bit of sense.

[Truxa]

Right Bro! Keyword being "didnt make a bit of sense"

People are thinking it this way: "if it's there, it's there by design thus a feature to (ab)use"

People with common sense think: "DEVs do not have the time and resources to private-test every possible exploit possible before releasing the (new) map. If it's not obvious to go a certain route (climbing on invisible blockers) then DONT DO IT!"

Going out of the map is an example of the latter point in being, you are not supposed to go out of the map. Just because you can doesnt mean you should. Because it yields an unfair advantage (e.g. sniping) it's banned.

Now, there is this grey area around these topics and that it what initiated me into creating this topic.

There are more issues, that I havent adressed and I'd like others to ask those questions here so it gets answered.

Another one is: Floating mines

those placing them might accedentally do it (closing doors e.g.) but I've seen floating mines in tunnel areas in Under.

When you place them and dont remove them, I think they intentionally placed them. They also give more damage as you cannot negate any, thus they think those floating mines are more effective.

Yet, on certain servers they are not allowed

[Radeon3]

Very good that you brought up the floating mines issue Truxa.

So far we thought the main problem with floating mines was that we weren't able to disarm them. Now we could, if we were able to and I'm talking about hidden unreachable -therefore undisarmable- mines.

In my point of view the main reason it's accepted because it is the same in oldRen which was probably due to programming/engine limitations. On the other hand it makes no sense (regarding the shape and nature of the mine) and gameplay-wise you can't do anything against it and it can even amplify the stalemates.

I know at least one EKT guy who often mines like this (the wallhopper..) but as far as I know it's clearly prohibited only on EKT2 (glad we have that server) so the confusion about this is understandable.

And I agree with B0ng, probably almost all of the maps would need an overhaul of the main invisible blocking volumes.

[RoundShades]

Blocking volumes aren't bad. All maps should have blocking volumes creating a confined square of play area so you DONT get out of the map. Just don't add them to a knee high anything or anything air can fly well above Midcap (blocking air at map perimeter is fine because air should know that's the edge anyway)

Honestly, I have more problem with a pointy rock edge clipping my vehicle or character corner and holding me on place when trying to escape, Than with prohibitive blocking volumes.

[epicelite]

How bout on Canyon where you can walk off the map but it yells at you and then kills you?

Do that in more places?

[RoundShades]

How bout on Canyon where you can walk off the map but it yells at you and then kills you?

Do that in more places?

Yosh and Kenz had a brief convo about making that capatable for vehicle damage as well as driver killing. That way, it works with vehicles without stranding vehicles.

Also, I don't mind some maps doing that.

Generally though, a lot of maps that don't have it atm are fine.

I would personally use both in a map were it me. Tops of buildings below the stall-height for air, I would put invisible blockades to keep air from getting on air only places on map-edges (inside the center of the map I would use visibly unland/unflyable shapes). In open paths out the edges of the map, I would make a distance-to-kill with area-vehicle-damage. Really, were it me, I would use weak vehicle-damaging volume like field's river but even slower (and it should be slower in field, even if tanks can outright drive across with some damage), along with infantry warning-to-kill on map's edge.