(Possible) UI / Usability Patch

[Nielsen]

This is NOT official in any way. I'm trying to gather opinions and suggestions on the UI so we can possibly do a good UI / Usability patch, or at least help convince everyone we should.

I'm curious about your thoughts on a UI / usability patch. What would you like to see improved that'll help promote communication / teamplay or improve the UI so it's clearer and more helpful.

So far I've seen:

-Voice chat (obvious)

-Radio commands being localized / louder / icon above head.

-Minimap showing friendly team as green, enemy team as red. (apparently we have this done but it's not working or something)

-Improved chatbox, improved fonts, colouring etc.

-More logical weapon / item purchase menu in PT.

-Better spotting functionality.

Add and discuss your own UI gripes and all that and I can update this post. I'm hoping to get a broad range of opinions and / or suggestions on what to fix. It's very likely we won't have time to do it all but it's good to have it all in one place for starters.

[DeadlyCobra]

Don't know whether this has been discussed before but I'd personally like to be able to hold a key to bring up a full screen/largish chat log of say the last 20 chat messages (excludes the generic messages such as Defend Building, attack etc). I am aware of the chat log in the ESC menu but I'd like something quick and as far as I know the ESC menu chat has all the generic messages mixed in

[SFJake]

What I'd really love is the minimap system turned into an openable map of the entire field, where everyone on your team (plus anything spotted by your friends) would show up. The mini-map seen through the radar is clumsy for many reasons, its hard to see dots on it (they should probably be much brighter), but as an openable map it would work perfectly, and would help teamwork a whole lot.

I know that probably beyond the scope of the topic here, but I do love the basis of the minimap and wish it could be expanded upon.

The map & mini-map really ought to show beacons and everything as you mention. If they do, I never noticed them. FRIENDLY beacons need to show permanently, as well as spotted enemy beacons.

And if the big map is not a possibility, IMO there should be an arrow pointing at beacons on the edges of the mini-map as well, so that you can tell where they are even when outside of range. This was actually in the old Renegade I believe.

The chat IS hard to read though, especially team chat since the NAMEs and the color of the text is all the same, and on Nod in particular, Red is hard to read over a lot of surfaces.

There's an icon now already when you use voice commands, it helps quite a a lot already.

Spotting is already great but can always use improvements, such as differentiating between the GDI-Nod Refinery/Power Plant and telling us what sort of vehicle-infantry exactly was spotted. Plus, showing anything spotted on the radar for a short time. There were other suggestions around the forum for spotting, as well, I'm sure people will bring them back here.

Thats all I can think of.

[HaTe]

Definitely an easier to use and easier to see chat log (like the one scripts 4.0+ implemented into renegade's "U" key).

Would also like a small chat log in the PT like Renegade has, so that you don't miss any action while purchasing.

HUD needs ions/nukes displayed by a yellow/red star on it for their own team, like in Renegade.

Empty vehicles were displayed as white on the radar for Renegade, and I found that useful.

On-screen health indicator when your health gets below 50 was always nice in Renegade too.

Ions/nukes should be static on the chat log while there is one set. Such that it counts down the first one laid until it is disarmed or goes off, then either goes away or begins counting down on the next nuke/ion if there is another. With all the added sounds and everything, it is often hard to notice a nuke/ion has even been planted.

Add vehicle kills and replace K/D on the scoreboard (still show deaths though).

Fix # count on static scoreboard to match up with the actual place you are in.

Make a new screen that shows what character/tank each character is using and how many credits they have and assign it to a button. The current way to have the static scoreboard on-screen and hold "J" is really bothersome to use and to read.

Highlight your own information on the scoreboard by default (like scrolling over it does now). Both end-game and in-game need this functionality.

[Ap2000]

Don't know whether this has been discussed before but I'd personally like to be able to hold a key to bring up a full screen/largish chat log of say the last 20 chat messages (excludes the generic messages such as Defend Building, attack etc). I am aware of the chat log in the ESC menu but I'd like something quick and as far as I know the ESC menu chat has all the generic messages mixed in

This is the only thing I really want in terms of GUI improvements.

Alternatively, being able to reduce radiospam client-side would be great. E.g. I don't need any radio command to be spammed more than 3 times in 30 seconds by a single person.

[Canucck]

More game info in the console would be nice. PMs showing in there, damage taken, etc

Option to set custom crosshair, universal or per weapon group

Let the FOV slider go up to 130. Having to "fov 110" every map is annoying

[SFJake]

Alternatively, being able to reduce radiospam client-side would be great. E.g. I don't need any radio command to be spammed more than 3 times in 30 seconds by a single person.

Radio-spam is a staple of Renegade in some weird ways.

That said, best improvement for those would be to be separate from the actual chat.

[Ap2000]

Alternatively, being able to reduce radiospam client-side would be great. E.g. I don't need any radio command to be spammed more than 3 times in 30 seconds by a single person.

Radio-spam is a staple of Renegade in some weird ways.

That said, best improvement for those would be to be separate from the actual chat.

I am very well aware of that and I've never been a fan of it.

An option to have two chats next to eachother with one dedicated for radio commands and one for text chat would be great.

[RoundShades]

Alternatively, being able to reduce radiospam client-side would be great. E.g. I don't need any radio command to be spammed more than 3 times in 30 seconds by a single person.

Radio-spam is a staple of Renegade in some weird ways.

That said, best improvement for those would be to be separate from the actual chat.

I am very well aware of that and I've never been a fan of it.

An option to have two chats next to eachother with one dedicated for radio commands and one for text chat would be great.

Nah guys, they really should limit any callout someone makes to 3 in any 30 second period, and 6 of any kind per player in any 30 seconds. Original Renegade had that, but it was less strict than described and could benefit from more strictness.

Besides that, better volumetric spotting. Spotting an infantry, what kind of infantry? Spotting a vehicle, what kind, especially if it's flying or not? Spotting needs to be specific, the GDI ref or Nod Ref. Spotting should also work for enemy C4, and reference whatever it is attached to, be it med tank or mammoth tank or artillery or GDI Ref MCT.

[Handepsilon]

Needs support for lower resolution. Can barely see anything at 640x480 resolution. Please support those that runs with slow computer. Thanks in advance

[epicelite]

Can you fix the minmap so it works with and doesn't bug out with "bAllowD3D9MSAA=True"?

[Ap2000]

Needs support for lower resolution. Can barely see anything at 640x480 resolution. Please support those that runs with slow computer. Thanks in advance

640x480? Really?

I hope this doesn't come off as too arrogant, but I mean, at some point as a developer you just have to cut off the support. Supporting really, really, REALLY old systems means not being able to put that time and work into supporting newer systems, which, quite frankly, are much more common.

Besides, RenX runs on low settings even on pretty old hardware. I tried it with my old dual core and GTX 460, hardware that is more than 5 years old.

What setup are even you running?

[Handepsilon]

Lenovo G405s laptop running on AMD A8 processor, 4 GB RAM, Dual graphics of AMD Radeon HD 8550G + 8570M, with Windows 7 64bit installed, bought just about 8 months ago.

Laptop itself is not that old as far as I know. The system... might be, dunno for sure. Might just be Epic Games being so AMD unsupportive

[RoundShades]

640x480? Really?

I hope this doesn't come off as too arrogant, but I mean, at some point as a developer you just have to cut off the support. Supporting really, really, REALLY old systems means not being able to put that time and work into supporting newer systems...

This is the part that is arrogant.

...which, quite frankly, are much more common.

Really? New systems are more common? More expensive systems are more common than cheaper systems...

If they are so common, you wouldn't mind parting with one, because I sure could use one...

Also, real statistics are better than ones came up with on the spot to support your arguement. Steam hardware statistics: http://steamcommunity.com//app/219640/d ... 4131592186

Shows 1080 most popular, which a lot of people use their television sets, one of the next most popular is 640x480, and... it's rising in popularity compared to last month by .01%? ...yeah I don't get it either, but apparently it is...

[Ap2000]

Really? New systems are more common? More expensive systems are more common than cheaper systems...

If they are so common, you wouldn't mind parting with one, because I sure could use one...

Not sure what stats you actually mean, but here are the Steam HW statistics:

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

640x480 only has 0.01%, it's absolutely unpopular.

I was talking about the Renegade X playerbase and people that play these kind of games.

From my experience, they have at least mediocre setups so they can run the game at native resolution with a stable framerate.

And of course it's just my opinion that devs should, at some point, just not care about really underpowered hardware. You have to cut off your support somewhere to still be able to make technological advancements (not just graphically, but also in areas like physics and AI).

I too own a netbook, but I'm very well aware that I can't play shit on that thing. lol

Just to be clear, I don't own an ultra-high-end setup either. For example, my GPU is just an HD 7870, a low mid-range card.

@Handepsilon; That kind of laptop is just not made out for playing anything 3D and even remotely recent. Certainly not in an acceptable resolution.

I mean, look at these results:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-A-Seri ... 639.0.html

http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon ... 651.0.html

[Handepsilon]

Well screw me then. That's the best my parents can afford me right now. Of course, they don't have gaming capability in mind. I would not dare to demand it

But I still think UI should at least be readable by every resolution. If you look at any other games (UT, Call of Duty, etc.), they don't turn UI into blurry mess. I believe it is something wrong in the texture settings of the UI. I will try to mess up the SDK if I'm correct or not

Edit : Ok, IMO the UI just look a tad too small on some part... and leaves some big gaps there

Notice how the gap is so big in the bottom there? All it needs is an itty bitty scaling on the weapon and game stats there and we're good. I don't think it will disorientate players or anything

[GenesisAria]

Radio-spam is a staple of Renegade in some weird ways.

That said, best improvement for those would be to be separate from the actual chat.

I am very well aware of that and I've never been a fan of it.

An option to have two chats next to eachother with one dedicated for radio commands and one for text chat would be great.

Nah guys, they really should limit any callout someone makes to 3 in any 30 second period, and 6 of any kind per player in any 30 seconds. Original Renegade had that, but it was less strict than described and could benefit from more strictness.

I find the spam actually quite a necessity. People should be a bit conservative about when they do it, but more spam = more desperate situation (multiple people spamming = extra desperate). If i see like 6 messages for structure needs repair, and then it turns into structure needs repair immediately, i'm like CRAPPPPP SWITCH TO ENGIE NOWWWW! well, in battle, you need to know if your team can handle the repairs enough that you'd be more useful tackling the enemy offence, or if you absolutely need to help because you're getting overwhelmed and need to turtle for a bit... so desperation level is something that's good to have a feel for. Radio messages need to be easier to hotkey, like hotkeying individual radio commands (ie "i need repairs").

Spotting should work on allies as well, or have a seperate spotting for allies. For example, spot an ally tank that's low hp... Have it get marked with a friendly icon (maybe even situation specific), "PlayerX needs repair!" or if they're full hp "assist Playerx!"... oh yeah and "Harvester Needs Repair!" is needed. Complete with cross icon for heals, and shield icon for defend/assist, and crosshair icon for attack/focus fire... include buildings too: either an icon originating from the MCT that you can see from any distance, or an icon hovering above the building.

All of that said, there probably should be a separate "spotting" and "tactical" keys for radio/marker.

>>One strictly for spotting including mines and beacons, and maybe even pointing out where allies are...

-have simple notice markers colour coded and lasting a set duration

-exception being sbh which should only have it's icon visible when the sbh is visible ofc

>>And another one for assist/defend and repairs and attack/focus-fire.

-shield, health cross, crosshairs icons respectively

-have these last longer than spotting ones...

-maybe if the original person who marked the attack target if they hit it again on the same target have it disable the marker early? (remove the chatbox message as well?)

-also make sure people can mark more than one thing at a time, even if radio spam gets blocked, still apply the marker

-"I need repairs" giving you a health cross icon without need of a tactical spotting.

-attack marker/radio be blended between "destroy that " and "attack the " adding a "kill that "

!! Having more radio/spotting functionality makes microphones less necessary, as well as improves strategy and tactics in teamwork.

Personally i'd like to be able to disable weapon reticle for hip firing. (vehicles kinda need them tho)

PS: is there a key to disable that big score list at the top right? i'm pretty sure i can hit tab to look at those stats. I find them annoying lol.

...

And lolwut? 640x480 common resolution? maybe on old phones.... 1024x768 should be the most common for bulk office-build pc's. 1366x768 common for laptops (4:3 laptops just don't make sense, your keyboard must be a nightmare haha). 800x600 was old even when i was in school. If you're computer setup is that cheapy/old i gotta wonder why you expect to be able to play a gen7 game engine on it. If you want to make your system exceed it's age and run newer things than it's made for, then you're gonna have to tweak it yourself (tackle them ini's). As far as UI goes, just some simple tweaks to scalability and problem solved. Few developers actually develop their games to be efficient enough to run well on older/weaker systems (although an example comes to mind: Metro Redux). And remember, this is UNREAL3 we are talking about, it's not even ideal for pc in general, but it's accessible.

Unreal3 isn't good at multi-threading; it's build with gen7 consoles in mind, and AMD doesn't have the per-core efficiency to run well with less cores. Though to be honest it might be your laptop's gpu that's causing the issues. Laptop chips often have quirks about them, things they aren't good at rendering, for example alpha to transparency, and they generally don't have much juice cuz they're supposed to be efficient and battery friendly. Technically my Radeon HD 4890 is quite a bit older, but it's got the juice to keep up as long as it's within the limits of dx10; and my Phenom2x4-965 is older too...but my game runs pretty decent at 1080p with medium-high custom settings (not amazing but it's passable). It's just all in what you decided to get.

I don't discourage improving performance and scalabilty, but there's limits to what is realistic.

Well screw me then. That's the best my parents can afford me right now. Of course, they don't have gaming capability in mind. I would not dare to demand it

You can always work and earn a better one yourself. If ur rig can't run gen7 games very well i highly recommend it

(Also, unless you need portability, the modular-ness and upgradability of tower pc's make them much cheaper.)

[Handepsilon]

Don't get it wrong. My laptop can reach 1376x768 res. I use 480p because of performance issue only.

And yes, I do need portability. Besides, with no internet at home, desktop is pretty much useless

And about earning money... yeah, I don't have skill to offer yet to earn myself at least $500 (my laptop's converted price) while affording for University and all

[TheOlsenTwins]

Well you could use less money to buy a tower pc. Almost any new pc with a dedicated gpu should be able to run it at least decent. (and also many other games)

(i got a quad core pc with a 4 year old mid range gpu HD6850 which is still able to run the game on ultra on 1920x1200)

[Ap2000]

Nah guys, they really should limit any callout someone makes to 3 in any 30 second period, and 6 of any kind per player in any 30 seconds. Original Renegade had that, but it was less strict than described and could benefit from more strictness.

I find the spam actually quite a necessity.

If the spam would be restricted to what I wrote above, then people would adjust to that.

[Calvin]

In classic renegade rencorner you have a UAV crate. That would be cool in renegade X or just a uav killstreak.

could you guys look into the 500 sniper rifle btw, it really sucks that it doesn't shoot sometimes or feels really buggy,

[Ap2000]

In classic renegade rencorner you have a UAV crate. That would be cool in renegade X or just a uav killstreak.

Making crates less simplistic again is a thing that hopefully happens in the future.

Kill streaks would be a really bad thing since it'd make the game even easier for camping sniperkids.

[Handepsilon]

Well you could use less money to buy a tower pc. Almost any new pc with a dedicated gpu should be able to run it at least decent. (and also many other games)

(i got a quad core pc with a 4 year old mid range gpu HD6850 which is still able to run the game on ultra on 1920x1200)

1. No, AFAIK that's just gonna end up being more expensive around here.

2. As I said before, I need portability. I won't be able to work on my campus project efficiently without laptop

3. There's no internet at home.

[RoundShades]

Well you could use less money to buy a tower pc. Almost any new pc with a dedicated gpu should be able to run it at least decent. (and also many other games)

(i got a quad core pc with a 4 year old mid range gpu HD6850 which is still able to run the game on ultra on 1920x1200)

1. No, AFAIK that's just gonna end up being more expensive around here.

2. As I said before, I need portability. I won't be able to work on my campus project efficiently without laptop

3. There's no internet at home.

You are really in a rock and a tight place. Really, I agree with them to a small degree, that you are incredibly lucky this runs on what you try it on with the most minor of UI issues. I seen some games have unclickables off screen for instance. This doesn't even place info off screen, just in odd sizing spacing onscreen. You are REALLY lucky with your specs you aren't limited to minesweeper and free cell, which don't get me wrong are great games tbh.

[Ap2000]

You are really in a rock and a tight place. Really, I agree with them to a small degree, that you are incredibly lucky this runs on what you try it on with the most minor of UI issues. I seen some games have unclickables off screen for instance. This doesn't even place info off screen, just in odd sizing spacing onscreen. You are REALLY lucky with your specs you aren't limited to minesweeper and free cell, which don't get me wrong are great games tbh.

Only Windows games might be a bit too harsh. lol

He can still play games up until 2007 or 2008 probably and emulation for the 32 Bit era shouldn't be too much of a problem.

[Calvin]

In classic renegade rencorner you have a UAV crate. That would be cool in renegade X or just a uav killstreak.

Making crates less simplistic again is a thing that hopefully happens in the future.

Kill streaks would be a really bad thing since it'd make the game even easier for camping sniperkids.

Sniping isn't that easy when OP guns are coming for you. Mostly you have 1 chance to hit or you die specially vs a officer.

[Handepsilon]

You are really in a rock and a tight place. Really, I agree with them to a small degree, that you are incredibly lucky this runs on what you try it on with the most minor of UI issues. I seen some games have unclickables off screen for instance. This doesn't even place info off screen, just in odd sizing spacing onscreen. You are REALLY lucky with your specs you aren't limited to minesweeper and free cell, which don't get me wrong are great games tbh.

Only Windows games might be a bit too harsh. lol

He can still play games up until 2007 or 2008 probably and emulation for the 32 Bit era shouldn't be too much of a problem.

...and Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3. That runs fairly smooth in my laptop, also with 480 res and medium graphic settings

But okay, I get your point. Just saying that the particular MovieClip on the weapons and game stats needs to be resized just about 1.025 times. But if those gaps on the UI were saved for something else, it's fine then

[TheOlsenTwins]

What Notebook do you have exactly Handepsilon?

Ever considered an eGpu?

@Topic: What i would love to see is a consistent position of the own team on the UI. (if easily doable)

Example: Always show your own team on the left inside the Tab-Menu and also outside of it. (which is done in many games).

This would improve the usability very much. Even I (although i have played quite a bit) sometimes look at the wrong side of the tab menu at first which costs unnecessary time. (which can be critical when checking for building damage...)

[Handepsilon]

Lenovo G405s

[TheOlsenTwins]

Ok, doesnt seem to work with USB 3 now, sorry.

[Handepsilon]

G405s has 1 USB 2.0 port

However, that is the first time I've ever heard it. I'm not sure if they produce that here

[Shadow39]

1. Less info on the GUI; it contains so much info that it is overwhelming. Perhaps a simple GUI just like the one in CnC Renegade, and an alternative option for those who love to see so much info such as ally and enemy structures, vehicle limit, mines limit, etc.

2. Organize the Purchase Terminal. It looks like a big mess! Separate things apart from each other and make them obvious. Free soldiers should have a facial picture like in the original CnC Renegade, maybe not but it might help to bring some distinctive color. Mouse over display; when your mouse points at something then the "models" on the left should appear, not when you click on it. A simple click to view the items 360 model is not worth it.

3. Radar Spotting. When you point your weapon at someone and the "rectangle" appears around them, it should be an automatic red dot on the radar. Then if they lose tract, that red dot will fade away.

4. Better radar. As someone suggested already. Empty vehicles will be white, etc.

5. Pressing Q-key for better voice communication. Something just like Battlefield 2. Get in the vehicle, get out of the vehicle, i need repairs, i need a medic, follow me, hold back, move forward, etc. Perhaps a detailed spotting too? So if you point at a Stealth Tank and spot it with Q-key, a voice command will be heard saying "Stealth Tank spotted" followed by a radar spotting.

6. Voice communications. Just makes everything better, that is if we include a mute button too.

7. Small ammo and health packs in random locations. I read in a different thread that they want to implement infinite ammo and i disagree. Team fortress 2 does a great job at balancing its characters and weapons. If some of them weapons had infinite ammo it would break the game. TF2 gives the strong weapons less ammo and low reload speed. So they constantly have to keep moving looking for ammo to keep their weapons functioning. These will force snipers to get out of their nest to get ammo, force rockets to move out of their nest to get ammo, and prevent unbalancing.

8. Steam. I know its on the process, but this will increase the popularity.

9. Character customization and Steam Workshop! This will be to give the developers the chance to get money and keep improving the game. Plus it will make the game personal to the player! If the player wants to customize their character like in Killing Floor and TF2, then they can by purchasing it. Money to the developer means more love to the game to keep improving!

CnC Renegade is the only game that made me a PC gaming addict. You guys don't understand how many night I didn't go to sleep playing this game. thank you for remaking it and bringing it to life. I will pay money to you guys once it is complete, either via the Steam Workshop, or donation.

[Handepsilon]

6. Voice communications. Just makes everything better, that is if we include a mute button too.

Get Teamspeak. AFAIK, you can't do it without the license. I could be wrong, but if I did, it means that it's too hard

7. Small ammo and health packs in random locations. I read in a different thread that they want to implement infinite ammo and i disagree. Team fortress 2 does a great job at balancing its characters and weapons. If some of them weapons had infinite ammo it would break the game. TF2 gives the strong weapons less ammo and low reload speed. So they constantly have to keep moving looking for ammo to keep their weapons functioning. These will force snipers to get out of their nest to get ammo, force rockets to move out of their nest to get ammo, and prevent unbalancing.

8. Steam. I know its on the process, but this will increase the popularity.

9. Character customization and Steam Workshop! This will be to give the developers the chance to get money and keep improving the game. Plus it will make the game personal to the player! If the player wants to customize their character like in Killing Floor and TF2, then they can by purchasing it. Money to the developer means more love to the game to keep improving!

This is about UI, go post the topic(s) somewhere else... but I'll answer a bit

7, there's an idea about health and armor drops from dead body, which kinda works like OldRen's single player mode

8. ....needs EA

Number 9 seems to be very hard, if not impossible, without completely modding the game and forcing people to get the models as well. Again, could be wrong. And I'd love it if I was wrong about it btw