Things that need change IMO

[HaTe]

Gunfights are still a bit too noob-friendly. Body damage should be lowered 20% and headshot damage raised 10% for automatic weapons. You're too reliant on your team and not reliant enough on your individual skill right now.

Vehicles are too flimsy. I understand that this isn't the original, but the tanks are just too flimsy. Whenever they change elevation (ie a small hill), aiming becomes difficult/impossible because they maneuver like they barely have any gravity with them.

Mines need to be easier to see. I'm getting annoyed by dying by mines (proxies, times, and even remotes sometimes) simply because they blend in with the textures of the map so much. They need to be brighter so that they can at least be seen while sprinting. I would also like more of an explosion animation from these. Right now you basically just start on fire and have to come to the conclusion that you must have ran into a mine.

Certain tunnel ceilings need to be higher (under).

Lock-on is too easy. I often lock-on to enemies I don't even see. You should have to have the inner-dot of the reticle at least first see the enemy.

Points for killing infantry are FAR too low. 50 for a 1000 level character? It was 99 in the original. 50 is simply way too low. I find myself getting 70+ kills in 35 minutes sometimes and still only being in the mid section of the scoreboard. Even when I'm killing mostly tier 2 and 3 characters.

Sound for EVA (nukes and ions especially) needs to be louder. Too quiet as is, even with all settings on 100%.

Chaingunner is very OP as is. Needs RoF lowered. Taking down 1000 characters with ease with this right now.

Overall really enjoying beta 4. Best beta by far, and I hope that things keep going in the right direction.

[Henk]

I only agree with you about the tunnels in Under, Chaingunner, and the points for killing infantry.

[cncforever]

Surely the whole point of mines is that they aren't too easy to see. I tend to place mines in hard to see areas, grass or behind areas that sprinting infantry will not notice so easily.

[Goku]

Surely the whole point of mines is that they aren't too easy to see. I tend to place mines in hard to see areas, grass or behind areas that sprinting infantry will not notice so easily.

Ditto, also agree with the tanks hummers and buggies are next to useless.

[HaTe]

The point of mines is to prevent infantry from infiltrating certain designated spots. It's an arcade came, not a realism game. The original game had mines that were easy to see, and they were still plenty useful. The fact that X adds a ton of extra visual objects (bushes, pipes, etc.), plus the addition of a faster run/sprint, means that mines could be placed secretively even with them being easier to spot.

[Henk]

But how are they hard to see? If you mean when they're around the corner then of course they are hard to spot

To me only the Anti Tank Mines are hard to spot (depending on the terrain material of course, they're perfectly camouflaged on xMountain, but very easy to see on Whiteout)

[Ap2000]

Sound for EVA (nukes and ions especially) needs to be louder. Too quiet as is, even with all settings on 100%.

Chaingunner is very OP as is. Needs RoF lowered. Taking down 1000 characters with ease with this right now.

For me, the EVA sound is good the way it is.

I don't think officer needs a big infantry nerf, but rather a vehicle dmg nerf. Right now it's quite OP for the price, but I do think it should be rather strong against inf. I mean, that should be his role after all. Lowering his vehicle dmg would be good.

Mines should absolutely not be changed. Maybe turn up your brightness and be more cautious, because I very rarel miss them.

[HaTe]

But how are they hard to see? If you mean when they're around the corner then of course they are hard to spot

To me only the Anti Tank Mines are hard to spot (depending on the terrain material of course, they're perfectly camouflaged on xMountain, but very easy to see on Whiteout)

They're too dark. The colors need to be brighter. On a tunnel floor you basically have to go slow and slowly and carefully inspect the entire floor before moving. I'm fine with them being around the corner, as that is strategy. It's the fact that they are so difficult to see even when they are in mid-tunnel. It also doesn't help that they have no explosion animation.

I don't think officer needs a big infantry nerf, but rather a vehicle dmg nerf. Right now it's quite OP for the price, but I do think it should be rather strong against inf. I mean, that should be his role after all. Lowering his vehicle dmg would be good.

You clearly haven't used this character enough. He is absolutely tearing through infantry like they're nothing. I'll make a video of this if needed.

Mines should absolutely not be changed. Maybe turn up your brightness and be more cautious, because I very rarel miss them.

Brightness is already turned up. It has to do with how fast I play. I play competitive games mostly, so my speed of play is high. I played games competitively, plus had months of hours logged in the original and never had this problem. I'm sure for someone that plays slow they aren't an issue to spot, but for someone who moves fast constantly, they blend in far too much. Like I said, they aren't supposed to be hidden even when in plain sight. They're supposed to prevent infantry infiltration, and make players be cautious when rounding a corner. They should not make players be cautious when in the middle of a tunnel or field, too.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Guest

[epicelite]

Mines should be team colored, sometimes when I sneak into a enemy base I toss my own mines into enemy mine clusters. Is it really fair that someone get killed because they felt the mines IN THEIR OWN BASE were safe and didn't check each individual mine to see what team it is?

The sidearm weapons are still overpowered, we don't need hotties/techs running around with top tier weapons so easily.

[HaTe]

I think proxies are team colored, but both colors and far too dark still. The base color is the worst though. It's a shade of black, really.

Tiberium flechette with a SBH is OP. I'm not too worried about the other sidearms, though. Just the SBH with the sidearms.

[Henk]

Mines should be team colored, sometimes when I sneak into a enemy base I toss my own mines into enemy mine clusters. Is it really fair that someone get killed because they felt the mines IN THEIR OWN BASE were safe and didn't check each individual mine to see what team it is?

That's just funny as hell in my opinion

[cncforever]

Mines should be team colored, sometimes when I sneak into a enemy base I toss my own mines into enemy mine clusters. Is it really fair that someone get killed because they felt the mines IN THEIR OWN BASE were safe and didn't check each individual mine to see what team it is?

The sidearm weapons are still overpowered, we don't need hotties/techs running around with top tier weapons so easily.

I disagree, that sounds like hand holding to me. Ive been killed by enemy mines in my own base and it served me right for not double checking.

I think some of the things people are complaining about simply require more observation skills. I tend to slow down at some points during a sprint to check for mines and I also check for enemy ones in friendly areas.

[cncforever]

Mines should be team colored, sometimes when I sneak into a enemy base I toss my own mines into enemy mine clusters. Is it really fair that someone get killed because they felt the mines IN THEIR OWN BASE were safe and didn't check each individual mine to see what team it is?

That's just funny as hell in my opinion

Ive taken that a step further. I was a GDI techie and while I was planting C4 on a buildings MCT, I also threw a few mines at the door to kill, damage or slow down anyone entering.

As I was leaving the base after the building blew, I got chased by a higher level character that I could not match, so I ran into the destroyed building and they straight ran into the mines I had placed and died. It was hilarious but it would have been easy to panic and not remember placing those. What a rush.

[RoundShades]

Ive taken that a step further. I was a GDI techie and while I was planting C4 on a buildings MCT, I also threw a few mines at the door to kill, damage or slow down anyone entering.

As I was leaving the base after the building blew, I got chased by a higher level character that I could not match, so I ran into the destroyed building and they straight ran into the mines I had placed and died. It was hilarious but it would have been easy to panic and not remember placing those. What a rush.

I too do this and feel it is a fair strategy. Placing mines where they might check one and see it's friendly so assume they all are. Pro Strat there.

I also think that enemy should have thought "wait, the mines didn't explode when he passed over them... something ain't right here..."

However, mines and particularly AT mines are too invisible in general. Almost wish they all had a spot of yellow or red on them (no, not team based, just visibility)

Edited March 31, 2015 by Guest

[Ap2000]

You clearly haven't used this character enough.

Yeah, no, I've been using the officer a lot since beta 4. It's ALWAYS the first unit I buy, even before I go out and do anything as a normal soldier.

Mines precisely should and do make people more cautious. Or at least not rushing through tunnels like a blind man.

As I (and some others already too) said, there's no problem with how the mines look and they look as intended. They shouldn't be just some huge blockade in front of you with a STOP sign.

I think some of the things people are complaining about simply require more observation skills. I tend to slow down at some points during a sprint to check for mines and I also check for enemy ones in friendly areas.

Exactly. The game doesn't need more hand-holding. If anything, it needs some of the recently changed/added features (crates, ref buff, airdrops) removed and make it harder again.

[DoctorB0NG]

Surely the whole point of mines is that they aren't too easy to see. I tend to place mines in hard to see areas, grass or behind areas that sprinting infantry will not notice so easily.

Mines aren't meant to be a random, no-skill insta-gib. They are meant to be a deterrent (not 10 deep blockade at the tunnels) from entering a building. Nothing more, nothing less.

[HaTe]

You clearly haven't used this character enough.

Yeah, no, I've been using the officer a lot since beta 4. It's ALWAYS the first unit I buy, even before I go out and do anything as a normal soldier.

Mines precisely should and do make people more cautious. Or at least not rushing through tunnels like a blind man.

As I (and some others already too) said, there's no problem with how the mines look and they look as intended. They shouldn't be just some huge blockade in front of you with a STOP sign.

I think some of the things people are complaining about simply require more observation skills. I tend to slow down at some points during a sprint to check for mines and I also check for enemy ones in friendly areas.

Exactly. The game doesn't need more hand-holding. If anything, it needs some of the recently changed/added features (crates, ref buff, airdrops) removed and make it harder again.

I'll make a video of me showcasing how OP the chaingunner is. Mines in the original worked well and could be spotted from a distance. They aren't supposed to be hard to spot in plain sight. They're supposed to limit infiltration into specific spots (tunnels, building entrances, etc).

[RoundShades]

I'll make a video of me showcasing how OP the chaingunner is. Mines in the original worked well and could be spotted from a distance. They aren't supposed to be hard to spot in plain sight. They're supposed to limit infiltration into specific spots (tunnels, building entrances, etc).

In the original, black wasn't as abundant a color palette. Needs a bright yellow stripe or sticker or something.

The chaingunner is alright:

1) Anything is OP in the right hands. I hear people all the time who are like "the autorifle is OP you can score a kill on a 1k class in like 4 seconds if you lead headshots". Like, okay, the autorifle is OP then... not.

2) I also agree chaingunner and rocket soldier should be 250 and everything should get a small increase in scale with the 1k units. so 200 are 250s, 350s are 425s, 400 and 450s are 550 and 600, 500s are 725s, and 1k stay the same. Given that a 200 is often 80% as good as a 1k, and you can have 5 of them for same price, and that credits in general are more abundant.

3) The chaingunner is only OP if you happen to spit a ton of bullets right into an enemy for that brief moment they aren't reacting and walking linearly. Pretty much instant kill. It is OP as you mentioned. But a group of enemies who all are evading your shots won't get mowed down. Really, this is the same reason the LCG feels OP sometimes, it really can instakill someone if lit up into the back of their head.

The video is welcome though. I loved montages back when CoD meant something.

[Ap2000]

I'll make a video of me showcasing how OP the chaingunner is. Mines in the original worked well and could be spotted from a distance. They aren't supposed to be hard to spot in plain sight. They're supposed to limit infiltration into specific spots (tunnels, building entrances, etc).

You don't need to make a video just to showcase me anything, I told you I'd find an anti-vehicle damage nerf actually very adequate. The infantry damage should stay because the officer is exactly that, an anti-infantry RATATATATATA train.

The mines aren't hard to see, unless some jerk puts them on a wall inside a cave (which rarely happens anyway).

[JTeKE]

I actually agree with the chaingunner concerns. I watched an average player go like 50-4 with the chaingunner, so I started playing with it. 5 apache, 3 art, and 3 buggy kills later, I found that the chaingunner has two flaws. 1) Body damage needs to be reduced by 25-30% or so, while light armor damage needs to be reduced by 25% or so. The description says they're good against light armor, but it's almost more effective to get a chaingunner over a mobius. The chaingunner, it's not completely obvious where you're being shot from if there's a lot going on. EVERYONE targets the mobius. Inherent probs.

[boxes]

I'm up for your gunfight suggestion. and definitely the vehicle control. Buggys, Hummers, and APCs are a real struggle to drive now.

But LCG is not OP at all, and he was nerfed quite a lot in Beta 4. The spread is pretty large now, and the firerate nerf noticeably affected his DPS. The removal of the spinup didn't really change anything because the spinup time in Beta 3 was already minuscule. I say leave him alone.

[HaTe]

Not lcg, just chaingunner. Decreasing rof would fix both the insane damage over time to infantry and vehicles.

You don't need to make a video just to showcase me anything, I told you I'd find an anti-vehicle damage nerf actually very adequate. The infantry damage should stay because the officer is exactly that, an anti-infantry RATATATATATA train.

I'm destroying $1000 characters with a $175 one, even when both are anti-infantry. You don't see anything wrong with that?

I watched an average player go like 50-4 with the chaingunner,

Might have been me - msaxton. I just re-installed less than a week ago, so while I am new in the sense that I haven't played in a long time, I have played the original with months of hours logged. People kept accusing me of cheating, but aiming is just easy and the chaingun is OP.

[Ap2000]

I'm destroying $1000 characters with a $175 one, even when both are anti-infantry. You don't see anything wrong with that?

There's always a way to destroy a 1000 credits unit and just because the unit has a high damage output doesn't make it OP.

The officer doesn't have a lot of HP and if he wouldn't be viable against vehicles at all, he'd be a perfectly balanced unit.

If you completely nerf him, he's going to be as useless again as he was in beta 3.

[boxes]

Not lcg, just chaingunner. Decreasing rof would fix both the insane damage over time to infantry and vehicles.

Ah you meant officer, my apologies. Yeah, I'm up for a nerf, but I was thinking an increased spread and decreased range. The damage output should stay the same.

[HaTe]

I'm destroying $1000 characters with a $175 one, even when both are anti-infantry. You don't see anything wrong with that?

There's always a way to destroy a 1000 credits unit and just because the unit has a high damage output doesn't make it OP.

The officer doesn't have a lot of HP and if he wouldn't be viable against vehicles at all, he'd be a perfectly balanced unit.

If you completely nerf him, he's going to be as useless again as he was in beta 3.

I kill more 1000 level characters than kill me... with a 175 unit. Lets put it that way.

[Ardente]

I agree with the Lock-On, Tunnels, Vehicles, EVA Nuke & Ion announcements.

More things to change.

Rocket Soldiers! You cant kill 'em, when they are hiding ontop of a mountain/hill and taking cover for every shot they do. Avoiding a rocket is impossible, even as Apache/Orca. What I mean is: change something to force them to go out of cover. LockOn takes longer or something.. They sneak out of their cave for a split second to attack and hide for 2.. thats annoying.

Give Nod something that equals the Mammoth Tank.. Nod cant take a fight on a map with multiple entrances, cos meds and mammoths are everywhere.. The Arty is down before you could enter it and Light Tank.. well ye.. Light Tank. Give'em the Apocalypse Tank from Red Alert 2! (Just a dream )

900HP or 1000 HP, slightly faster than Mammoth Tank and 1250costs?

Give McFarLand and Gunner (explosive ammo like rockets or grenades overall) damage to their own character. They can spam dat shit without taking damage by their own.

McFarLand range. Decrease it.. please. McFarLand range is like 1/3 higher than ChemTrooper.

I know its stupid to give them equal range.. but still.. you cant take a ChemTrooper against vehicles, cos less range. Compared to McFarLand.. just take him against vehicles.. no problem.

Fix McFarLand secondary heashot. Enemy is taking no dmg by heashots.

Decrease Patch(Character) damage against vehicles. Or increase LaserChainGunner Dmg against vehicles.

So Nod has a fair chance to destroy a 800HP Tank. Since range is a issue for Nod.. imo

Patch takes 23.79 seconds to destroy their own MedTank

Compared to LaserChainGunner. Takes 30.80 seconds to destroy a MedTank.

Come on.. their is something wrong.. Light Tank has 200HP less than the Med Tank and GDI got more firepower?

Overall there is a lack of damage and range compared to GDI.

Nod doesn't even have a vehicle to counter AirUnits.. (for far range, like the MRLS)

EDIT:

Just incase someone is whining about my changes.

I just want a well balanced game and tbh, the Patch vs LaserChainGunner is a problem.. He got less ammo, yea.. but who cares about a 450 Char if a 800vehicle is destroyed.

About the extra Nod vehicle. Maybe they should finaly fix the stealth tank.. Just give them the rocket movement by the mammoth and more range? (Not talking about the same dmg nor range etc.. just the same rocket movement like the mammoth)

About Rocket Soldier.. well yea.. nothing to say. It's a hide & attack char and its annoying.

[yosh56]

Patch takes 23.79 seconds to destroy their own MedTank

Compared to LaserChainGunner. Takes 30.80 seconds to destroy a MedTank.

I have more to say to this topic... but this... this is only looking at one aspect. What you fail to also put into perspective is:

A) Patch has bullet travel

B) The LCG also wtf hit-scan rapes infantry

C) LCG is hitscan, so it can be used far more effectively against aircraft

D) LCG actually damages buildings quite a lot.

[Ardente]

Patch takes 23.79 seconds to destroy their own MedTank

Compared to LaserChainGunner. Takes 30.80 seconds to destroy a MedTank.

I have more to say to this topic... but this... this is only looking at one aspect. What you fail to also put into perspective is:

A) Patch has bullet travel

B) The LCG also wtf hit-scan rapes infantry

C) LCG is hitscan, so it can be used far more effectively against aircraft

D) LCG actually damages buildings quite a lot.

A) Everyone should be able to control the bullet travel. So no argue for me, sorry.

B) Dont have any idea what that means. Guess I wasn't there for the hitscan meeting.

C) Can be done with Patch as well. Even then you just take a MRLS and the air unit is done. Nod doesn't have a anti air unit.

D) Patch would do the same, if he had enough ammo. You need full ammo with LCG to destroy a building solo (without C4). And Patch can solo C4 a building easily in ~35seconds. So both compared for buildings its like 55/45 for Patch. (Cos LCG has to reload for the last 0% )

It's just the point that Char 3, 5 & 6 are the only chars with different gameplay. ChemTrooper/McFarLand, SBH/Gunner and Patch/LCG. Nod doesn't have much armor with their vehicles and a single char like Patch can easily rape them. The LCG spread is quite randomly, so harder to hit infantry, atleast for me.

And im just talking about the vehicle damage, not the infantry damage. It's kinda a shame that the LCG takes more time to destroy a 800HP Tank than the Patch. GDI already has the most firepower, compared to Nod.

Nod's LightTank @ 600 HP | Patch needs 16sec to destroy a LightTank with every hit & without rep.

GDI's MedTank @ 800 HP | LCG needs 30secs to destroy a MedTank with every hit & without rep.

Do you see what I mean? LightTanks are ripped apart in no time.

I dont want to nerf Patch till he cant do a shit.. It's just not that fair against the Nod side overall.

EDIT:

I just tested the LCG in the classic Renegade. And he needs C4 + full ammo (every damn laser shot) to destroy a building.

I would test Patch as well, but since his "Anti Vehicle" Rifle is not a official weapon.. I cant.

So.. yea.. dont know. Just a little question, is there even a Infantry, Vehicle & Building Damage scale or is everything based on HP damage? (Since the buildings have 4.000 HP | based on UDK Max HP = 4000.)

If there is.. then the LCG needs to be nerfed for buildings as well.

[HaTe]

Maybe it's just me, but I prefer the LCG over the patch.

Anyway, noticed that the shotgunner in VERY OP too. Range is too long and the spread doesn't get larger at all for the range. Spread should increase as range gets longer.

[cncforever]

Maybe it's just me, but I prefer the LCG over the patch.

Anyway, noticed that the shotgunner in VERY OP too. Range is too long and the spread doesn't get larger at all for the range. Spread should increase as range gets longer.

I noticed that last night when I was up against one with an Officer. I was keeping a distance and the shotgunner was still able to connect with way too many hp's. None of this surprises me because the game has so many different classes interacting with lots of changes and tweaks in Beta 4.

[Electrifyer809]

Hate to say it, but most of you here sound like you came here to complain rather than help. Just because someone has a 1000 character, that has no influence on who they are and how they play. 1000 characters aren't guaranteed to be good, officers are made to rush and kill quickly, and that's how they are now. Mines are made to block places from being accessed, usually by surprise. Why place the if nobody will attempt to get through them because they're obviously there? And no, Nod does NOT need a Mammoth equivalent. GDI is there to have the power. Nod has stealth. The problem is that we have too many people either camping the tunnels with SBHs or trying to go solo. One nuke guarded by one inaccurate weapon has less than 10% of a chance to even make it to the 20 second mark. Renegade is about TEAMWORK and COMMUNICATION. It's why servers urge you to join TeamSpeak. If you want to be a solo player wig a million kills but no real help to the team, then CoD is waiting.

[HaTe]

Hate to say it, but most of you here sound like you came here to complain rather than help. Just because someone has a 1000 character, that has no influence on who they are and how they play. 1000 characters aren't guaranteed to be good, officers are made to rush and kill quickly, and that's how they are now. Mines are made to block places from being accessed, usually by surprise. Why place the if nobody will attempt to get through them because they're obviously there? And no, Nod does NOT need a Mammoth equivalent. GDI is there to have the power. Nod has stealth. The problem is that we have too many people either camping the tunnels with SBHs or trying to go solo. One nuke guarded by one inaccurate weapon has less than 10% of a chance to even make it to the 20 second mark. Renegade is about TEAMWORK and COMMUNICATION. It's why servers urge you to join TeamSpeak. If you want to be a solo player wig a million kills but no real help to the team, then CoD is waiting.

I'm not complaining at all? How do you recommend we help without pointing out what we feel needs to be changed? Your logic is bad.

If you really don't think the officer is OP, then you aren't very good at aiming. Havoc/sakura is also anti-infantry and is more than 5 times more expensive, yet an officer can kill a sakura/havoc more times than not. If you don't see something wrong with that, then I suppose you just don't understand the game balance all too well.

Mines are NOT meant to be realistic. If they were, then they'd be claymores or IED's and would be underground or something similar. They're meant to be anti-infiltration devices, like into a tunnel passageway or a building. If you played the original, you'd know this. If the game was going for realism, don't you think hospitals would have repair guns by now?

If you're getting a ton of kills, you are helping the team. Especially in X. Considering that 1 hotty/tech through the tunnels in many maps can infiltrate your base and kill a building, having a person who can consistently kill them is important to success. It's just as much individual skill as it is teamwork (that coming from a highly competitive Renegade player for many years).

[Ap2000]

If you really don't think the officer is OP, then you aren't very good at aiming. Havoc/sakura is also anti-infantry and is more than 5 times more expensive, yet an officer can kill a sakura/havoc more times than not. If you don't see something wrong with that, then I suppose you just don't understand the game balance all too well.

A 1000 credits sniper has:

1) Much more health

2.) Much more range

3.) Can actually damage heavy vehicles from afar

The only time the sniper can get more easily killed if both are near eachother and in tunnels.

Also, Electrifyer809 said nothing about realism.

Your "you suck" and "if you'd have played the original" arrogance is really frustrating to deal with, so consider yourself ignored now by me.

[RoundShades]

Eh, he isn't wrong though.

It is helpful to make suggestions. But honestly, what can you say was more powerful Hate? The officer in beta 4, mcfarland in beta 2, or the chem trooper in beta 3? I'd list officer at bottom of that. I still think grenadier is more a balance problem, he got way good real fast.

As far as details btw, mines are technically "Proximity C4". Kind of like "tripwire bombs". They should be obviously a placed explosive, its how they make sense and how they work in many other video games including original Renegade. They were very obvious in original Renegade, they were discs that stood out. Being team-colored isn't necesary, being literally seeable through walls isn't necesary. Visible is enough. Besides that, plant them behind the lips of doors, or behind rocks, or in shrubs, or here and there amongst enemy mines. That is strategic, fair enough.

To do that, proxy c4 need to either have some bright colored small emblem or sticker on them, or much more difficultly, the devs need to ween that pitch black color similar to the mines off of every map it is abundant in.

[Electrifyer809]

He's making points, but the attitude isn't helping him. Samurai and Havocs are SNIPERS. They're made for LONG RANGE, if you rush them with an officer, you get fifty shots off in the time they get one. If they miss, that's another round of bullets before another chance comes up. Officers are close range rushers.

And dude, change your attitude a little. You can just as easily get points across without acting as if people are stupid for thinking something different. This is a game being developed by people with their own lives donating their time for free.

[GenesisAria]

the lockon thing i feel has an issue with what is being locked onto imo.

for example, a missile locking onto an infantry should take longer than locking onto a tank.

also, the orca needs faster lockons... the slower firing missiles means you have to hold a lock much longer than with the apache, and if you lose the lock it takes too long to re-engage it. the apache is fine.

the stealth tank could probably do with being more effective vs aircraft. some more range and more damage vs aircraft. (med tank and light tank can shoot crazy far, so can mammoth, why do stealth tank missiles blow up so short? maybe add 25% range to it?). mlrs just destroys apaches.

ALTHOUGH i guess the above is balanced by the orca having slow lockons making it more anti-tank and anti-building so the lack of nod's AA is countered, but it's still awkward.

ps: the mines aren't really any easier or harder to see as far as actual design goes. they're just less visible because everything is less visible (including players). the new graphics have more details like foliage and it's more gritty and dark. the old game had very simple lighting and the floors were often very well lit (baked-in glow from PT's). imo, the mines are fine the way they are, stop sprinting where there might be mines lol. reticle scan as you approach base, or get your punishment.

[yosh56]

Comparing Havoc/Sakura to the Officer really is a terrible comparison. To a Mobius, yes. Havoc and Sakura aren't anti-infantry in the same sense that the Officer is anti-infantry. 1k snipers are expensive SNIPER units; they were never made to actually be front-line and CQC fighters, so the Officer beating them is completely fine, as it's kind of its job to be a CQC specialists. Mobius has enough health to wipe an Officer, and he's MEANT to be a CQC unit.

OldRen may have let snipers be their broken selves, but the Devs have been actively moving away from letting servers become 'play a sniper or an Engi or a vehicle', which is basically what OldRen started to devolve in to. So long as the Officer's chaingun doesn't suddenly become 100% accurate and able to counter-snipe, it's fine in that aspect.

That isn't to say the Chaingun might not need to be looked at a little bit though, as it currently does walk through infantry better than the LCG, and can spray far more for longer. Lower ROF or put it back down to 100-150 rounds per mag

-----

I still don't get the issue with mines... they aren't even remotely hard to see unless you're blindly sprinting, in which case they're just serving as a punishment for your carelessness. Aside from on servers with ridiculous mine limits, they're probably going to always be in the same general area anyway.

[HaTe]

If you really don't think the officer is OP, then you aren't very good at aiming. Havoc/sakura is also anti-infantry and is more than 5 times more expensive, yet an officer can kill a sakura/havoc more times than not. If you don't see something wrong with that, then I suppose you just don't understand the game balance all too well.

A 1000 credits sniper has:

1) Much more health

2.) Much more range

3.) Can actually damage heavy vehicles from afar

The only time the sniper can get more easily killed if both are near eachother and in tunnels.

Also, Electrifyer809 said nothing about realism.

Your "you suck" and "if you'd have played the original" arrogance is really frustrating to deal with, so consider yourself ignored now by me.

Yet, the officer still wins the majority of the time for me mid distance or near distance. I can't tell if you're just unwilling to see the advantage or what. Electrifyer said "mines are meant to be." In what, the original? Then he's wrong. In real life? Then he's right, but the game isn't made for realism. Hence the implication that he is referring to realism with the "meant to be," based off of nothing, and the only other possibility being that he was talking about the original (in which case he'd be wrong).

I never said anyone sucks. I'm saying they aren't very good if they can't see how overpowered certain units are. It's not arrogance, it's simply a differing viewpoint from yours. You're used to pub play, whereas I have played competitively a lot, so I see the game differently. For you to ignore me is ignorance of the fact that people have other viewpoints that the simplistic view of the game.

[Canucck]

I still don't get the issue with mines... they aren't even remotely hard to see unless you're blindly sprinting, in which case they're just serving as a punishment for your carelessness. Aside from on servers with ridiculous mine limits, they're probably going to always be in the same general area anyway.

They do damage through geometry in renx. In ren if mines were places in a hard to see place (inside edge of a door, right on a corner, etc) they're usually just end up being wasted when someone came close enough but was still protected by geometry. In renx you just die if that happens, so there are some places where you'll just never have time to get the proper angle to see them.

Probably mainly people with ultra high gfx settings complaining. With lensflare and all that other crap in your face all the time everything becomes hard to see

[Electrifyer809]

Um... I was under the impression that this was a sequel to the original, so it follows most of the same concepts. Why should mines be really obvious now? The game has gotten super easy as it is with air-drops and still having the ability to get some purchasable characters even when the needed structure is destroyed.

[HaTe]

It's based off of the original, yes. Mines in the original were obvious and easily seen from a distance. Mines now aren't. That could be because of added graphical elements, but regardless it makes them harder to see. Gameplay trumps graphics, and if the added graphical elements are making it harder to see the mines, then the mines need to be brighter. They truly are not supposed to be hidden even when in plain sight. They're a deterrent, not a surprise kill out of no where (unless around corners, which is understandable).

[Ardente]

It's kinda funny how you guys are argue about the 1k Units, the Officer and the Mines..

As someone said before.

1k Units aren't there for CQC.. so deal with it, if a Officer is going to beat ur ass.

Mines are completely fine, imo. Even with "ultra high gfx settings" and "with lensflare and all that other crap in my face".

You should know in less than 10games where these mines are - Buildings & Base entrances.

And yea, just because there is a sprint function it doesn't mean that you can sprint blind in the next spot and expect nothing to happen.

Real issues are - imo ofc:

You dont get dmg by your own rockets nor grenades. (Gunner, Rocket Soldier, McFarLand and whatsoever).

@ Electrifyer809:

Have you ever played the original Renegade?

Stanks were way faster, even by turning around and could shoot nearly straight.

Mammoth Tanks had less range and couldn't shoot Primary & Secondary at the same time. Fair enough, AirUnits can do the same. But still, GDI is in advantage.

Arty had zero bullet drop, it was straight. I dont complain about this change, but to compare - the MRLS got LockOn and If I remember right, they increased the rocket speed. If not and If im wrong, sorry about this one.

Patch had the Tiberian Flachette and not the "Anti Vehicle Rifle". And he destroys a damn light tank in 16seconds. Just imagine 2 of them on the field.. say byebye to the arty or every other vehicle, even with repair.

McFarLand wasn't even in the game (Cant remember the Campain, but he wasn't in the MP).

And Nod? Nod got an granny stank, cant even shoot right and is almost useless. You have to have the correct range.. if not.. byebye.

Nod doesn't have lock on.. OH WAIT, THE STANK! Yea no.. he's useless. He can shoot as far as the airstrip has length, and thats it.

Either, they have to change some balancing. I dont say WHERE (dont look up ), because ppl are crying about issues I SEE or they have to change the maps.. to force GDI to get closer to the Nod base, so Flames & Stanks have a fair chance to do something. I dont say Flames are useless. No no, they rape a Mammoth Tank in seconds. Just you cant do anything If a fucking army of Mammoth and Meds are camping your base. Dont say "Go out with SBH and C4 them!!!11" - Yea.. no.. Because you cant do anything SOLO. You need 3xC4 to destroy a Mammoth Tank. And you will die out there, inbetween a GDI army.

As always. MY OPINIONS! So please.. dont be mean to me or even to other ppl.

Just want some balanced matches. Good old Renegade ♥. But Patch, McFarLand and uber Mammoth are kinda destroying this balancing.

[HaTe]

1k Units aren't there for CQC.. so deal with it, if a Officer is going to beat ur ass.

Says who? Your opinion? Certainly not the original. The greatest thing about 1k chars is how versatile they are. Mobius's in general were completely CQC in the original, and havoc/sakura and pic/rave could manage CQC completely fine in the original too.

Again, I know this isn't the original, but what are people using for their arguments? Their opinion on how things "should" work? My thoughts are coming from a few things: Based off of the original game (at least somewhat), based off of competitive play (which I hope builds into this game in the future), and based off of someone with good aim in the game (if you doubt that, I'll gladly challenge you lol). I'm just trying to understand where some of you are coming from when you say "supposed to," "aren't there for," "shouldn't be," etc, when what you're saying is a direct contradiction to many things.

[[JTeK] Josh]

I'm seeing a lot of good points. Drop the rate of fire for the officer and see how it goes in testing. Lower rate of fire also helps with bullet travel consistency.

One big concern of mine is the points you get from repairing. You damn near get as many points from repairing as the other team does for hitting your buildings. Does anyone know why this is set up this way? I could damn near go afk repairing and get mvp every game.

The only other aspect I'd like to be revisited is the notification system when a beacon is placed. I feel like it's much harder to see and hear when beacons and nukes are placed. Could the notifications not be more static? (Stay on the screen a bit longer.) In the original, when an enemy beacon/nuke was being placed, it clearly overshadowed all other sounds in the game. Now, you get one quick message and a semi-audible notice.

It's pretty much become a nightly ritual for me and some buddies to get in Mumble and play this game. I'm very close to being comfortable with the idea that RenX is as polished as the original. Where RenX suffers is that we realistically couldn't voice our opinion about balance issues with the original. We generally just took things at face value and lived with it. Now, every little injustice or perceived issue... "TO THE FORUMS." Beta 4 hasn't been out long enough to have as many "balance" problems as people might suggest.

You really do have to walk a fine line when comparing this game to the original. I logged so much of my early-mid teen years on the original it's ridiculous. My experience is likely different than most of this forum, though. In the original, my clan was consistently one of the more competitive clans on clanwars.cc and when it wasn't, I was generally playing with a few of the other top clans. (OPS, DoA, etc) I mention this because my background might not quite line up with some of yours. I put loads of value into tank fights, tank balance, etc.

Oh and what's with everyone's affinity for marathon servers? I'll never fully understand why people like playing the same map for hours or even days.

[HaTe]

One big concern of mine is the points you get from repairing. You damn near get as many points from repairing as the other team does for hitting your buildings. Does anyone know why this is set up this way? I could damn near go afk repairing and get mvp every game.

Agreed with that. Not sure what the rate is. In the original it was 50% of the points the attacker was getting. I'm not sure if it's more than that or not though. It may just be because everything else is relatively less points other than whoring buildings and repairing buildings, compared to the original.

The only other aspect I'd like to be revisited is the notification system when a beacon is placed. I feel like it's much harder to see and hear when beacons and nukes are placed. Could the notifications not be more static? (Stay on the screen a bit longer.) In the original, when an enemy beacon/nuke was being placed, it clearly overshadowed all other sounds in the game. Now, you get one quick message and a semi-audible notice.

Yeah, I was thinking about a ion/nuke countdown on the chatlog that was permanent for a nuke/ion until it went off. Something like the seconds until it initiates, and then it either goes away when exploded, or goes to the countdown of the next nuke/ion if there is another placed.

Now, every little injustice or perceived issue... "TO THE FORUMS." Beta 4 hasn't been out long enough to have as many "balance" problems as people might suggest.

Also agree with that point. People always say how OP GDI is, but nod has plenty opportunities as well (though GDI does appear to have a bit of an advantage on most maps). So many people just don't understand the game fully enough and are arguing balance aspects. That's fine and all, but they need to realize that in a year down the line, their balance arguments will be completely different even within the same game/version because of new realized tactics and gameplay factors.

You really do have to walk a fine line when comparing this game to the original. I logged so much of my early-mid teen years on the original it's ridiculous. My experience is likely different than most of this forum, though. In the original, my clan was consistently one of the more competitive clans on clanwars.cc and when it wasn't, I was generally playing with a few of the other top clans. (OPS, DoA, etc) I mention this because my background might not quite line up with some of yours. I put loads of value into tank fights, tank balance, etc.

I suppose this is how I find myself agreeing with you so much then, as I come from a similar background (though I mostly attended cw.cc more in its later years and then moved onto community wars after it's eventual renegade death). It's just a different perspective, and one that should be treated as important. People with a competitive background in the original will understand the balance in this game better, even with so many different factors in the new game. We just use the advantages well, and so we see where there may be a balance issue pretty quickly. Either way, the majority of the people will never agree that the game will ever be 100% balanced regardless. That's just the way people are.

Oh and what's with everyone's affinity for marathon servers? I'll never fully understand why people like playing the same map for hours or even days.

It's the concept of "I'm going to finish this game whatever it takes." Some people love it, others hate it. It's just a matter of opinion. Lots of people hate that the score can win the game after a time limit, but then lots of people share your opinion as well. It's pretty split at 50/50 from what I've seen.

[Xavierwallz]

Also, didn't the original superweapons use additional graphics when they were deployed. Nuke caused the sky to darken with a red tint, while ion Cannon caused the sky to darken with rain and slight blue tint.

[RoundShades]

The atmospheric change would have to be triggered by the map and not the weapon, for every map that is a lot of work.

Honestly, I would be more inclined to believe Nod was at a disadvantage, if they didn't have cheap powerful siege vehicles, vehicles with terrain advantage, highest dps vehicle which was buffed to be good against absolutely anything at all instead of just structures last patch, cheap powerful infantry, many unique tools like tiberian travel and stealth, and an almost equal win-rate...

Really, if GDI is too strong, it is because the grenadier and the mrls. Though rocket speed actually benefits Nod infantry because they have a harsher miss angle. In my opinion, mrls can lose lock on and that would be perfectly fine with current missile speeds or perhaps faster missiles. That would make "anti air" STILL more in favor of GDI and their Patch, but not so extremely so. MRLS can even usually hit air vehicles by spreading missiles out across the sky or waiting for it to attack and coincidentally fly in a line to do so.

Still think Officer isn't that big a deal, perhaps reduce its general per-bullet damage by 15%. Still think mines are, a little yellow triangle label would do wonders because despite what some people think, people DO place them randomly in the dark just for a kill. The label itself could be dark-yellow like a faded muddy label, but the change of color is more distinct than dark on dark, and the entire reason is still based on classic because nothing in maps was "black" in that game except c4, everything was fairly-light-darkgrey or fairly-light-darkbrown.

[yosh56]

Also agree with that point. People always say how OP GDI is, but nod has plenty opportunities as well (though GDI does appear to have a bit of an advantage on most maps). So many people just don't understand the game fully enough and are arguing balance aspects. That's fine and all, but they need to realize that in a year down the line, their balance arguments will be completely different even within the same game/version because of new realized tactics and gameplay factors.

That basically sums up a lot of complaints. It's why I literally start my guide by addressing why neither side is particularly over or underpowered. A lot of complaints were that Nod was SO OVERPOWERED back for beta 1 and 2, then that GDI was soooo OP in B3 and 4. All of those complaints were generally early on after the games release when new people were dominating the servers. It's annoying, but once people realise that you aren't supposed to play both sides the exact same, they eventually learn that they balance each other out quite well. GDI's sort of supposed to feel far stronger in the field, but Nod also forces GDI players to have to watch their base like hawks.

[sterps]

It's kinda funny how you guys are argue about the 1k Units, the Officer and the Mines..

As someone said before.

1k Units aren't there for CQC.. so deal with it, if a Officer is going to beat ur ass.

Mines are completely fine, imo. Even with "ultra high gfx settings" and "with lensflare and all that other crap in my face".

You should know in less than 10games where these mines are - Buildings & Base entrances.

And yea, just because there is a sprint function it doesn't mean that you can sprint blind in the next spot and expect nothing to happen.

Real issues are - imo ofc:

You dont get dmg by your own rockets nor grenades. (Gunner, Rocket Soldier, McFarLand and whatsoever).

@ Electrifyer809:

Have you ever played the original Renegade?

Stanks were way faster, even by turning around and could shoot nearly straight.

Mammoth Tanks had less range and couldn't shoot Primary & Secondary at the same time. Fair enough, AirUnits can do the same. But still, GDI is in advantage.

Arty had zero bullet drop, it was straight. I dont complain about this change, but to compare - the MRLS got LockOn and If I remember right, they increased the rocket speed. If not and If im wrong, sorry about this one.

Patch had the Tiberian Flachette and not the "Anti Vehicle Rifle". And he destroys a damn light tank in 16seconds. Just imagine 2 of them on the field.. say byebye to the arty or every other vehicle, even with repair.

McFarLand wasn't even in the game (Cant remember the Campain, but he wasn't in the MP).

And Nod? Nod got an granny stank, cant even shoot right and is almost useless. You have to have the correct range.. if not.. byebye.

Nod doesn't have lock on.. OH WAIT, THE STANK! Yea no.. he's useless. He can shoot as far as the airstrip has length, and thats it.

Either, they have to change some balancing. I dont say WHERE (dont look up ), because ppl are crying about issues I SEE or they have to change the maps.. to force GDI to get closer to the Nod base, so Flames & Stanks have a fair chance to do something. I dont say Flames are useless. No no, they rape a Mammoth Tank in seconds. Just you cant do anything If a fucking army of Mammoth and Meds are camping your base. Dont say "Go out with SBH and C4 them!!!11" - Yea.. no.. Because you cant do anything SOLO. You need 3xC4 to destroy a Mammoth Tank. And you will die out there, inbetween a GDI army.

As always. MY OPINIONS! So please.. dont be mean to me or even to other ppl.

Just want some balanced matches. Good old Renegade ♥. But Patch, McFarLand and uber Mammoth are kinda destroying this balancing.

You shouldn't be so quick to compare Renegade X to the original Renegade, as Renegade was unbalanced in Nod's favour.

Ardente you seem to be a Nod fanboy, and i believe you need to learn how to play as Nod, because Nod was never meant to be able to go toe-to-toe with GDI's vehicles.

I'm also seeing people posting suggestions at balance by buffing a unit and nerfing another, which is a really bad idea.

As a player that uses vehicles the majority of the time, i believe they're for the most part balanced. Most vehicles feel about where they should be at in terms of balance.

I will agree, and believe the Stank needs some loving.

Right now it's annoying to use mainly due to its inaccuracy, and to a lesser extent it's speed.

Everything else feels fine about it, it's firepower, it's range, it's turning speed.

Stealth Tank

-Buff it's accuracy! Tone down how the rockets flail out in a wide arc when it fires, that arc should only be present for a very short distance after it fires, after which point the rockets converge and travel in a relatively straight path. At the moment the arc is way to large and causes rockets to often miss a target.

Improving the accuracy of the rockets will also assist in firing and taking down enemy air units which some people appear to have an issues with when playing Nod.

-Slight buff to its speed. Right now it moves a bit too slow and should move faster.

The Mammoth tank is fine.

What needs to be fixed with it, is the fact that majority of the time you either fire blank rounds or only one shell. It's very frustrating, and often feels like a waste of money.

However i noticed that this doesn't appear to occur in a server closer to where you play and seems to be more associated with higher pings and lag. This also appears to be an issue with some other units like PICS and Railguns. So maybe this issue is associated with latency.

Ardente you mention that the Mammoth is OP. Again you must be comparing to original Renegade, where the Mammy was very UP, and unless it had a good driver was pretty much useless.

In Renegade X it feels where it should be at. You pay $1500 for it, i better get my moneys worth.

Remember in Tiberian Dawn, only 3 units could out range the Mammoth. The SSM Launcher, the Artillery and the MLRS, and the latter two weren't by much.

The Artillery is fine.

The artillery in the original Renegade was one of the most game breaking units. For $450, it required zero skill to utilise, and you could point and fire shells across the entire map that pawned everything, shook your screen like crazy, kill any repair crews behind tanks with little fear of retaliation. Put a a techie behind it and it became near impossible to kill. Now get several of these and it was gg for GDI. This happened 95% of all Renegade games and frankly made things stale. Again, don't compare to Renegade.

The arc should stay.

In my opinion, mrls can lose lock on and that would be perfectly fine with current missile speeds or perhaps faster missiles.

I have to disagree with this. Without lock on, the MLRS will be useless at firing at air units, not to mention land units, it's easy enough for units to dodge the MRLS's missiles as it is using features of the map such as trees, rocks, cliffs, mountains etc, even with the missile speed buff and lock on. I really don't see how by removing lock on, the MLRS will still be effective at shooting aircraft, considering air units can move in three dimensions.

I need to fly around in air units more to get an idea how their balance feels. I know the speed buffs feel good.

I also remember the apache was very powerful in B3.

I can't really comment too much on the infantry balanced, as i haven't had the opportunity to use them much. Though i can say Chem warriors feel a lot more powerful now, maybe OP.

[Ardente]

1k Units aren't there for CQC.. so deal with it, if a Officer is going to beat ur ass.

Says who? Your opinion? Certainly not the original. The greatest thing about 1k chars is how versatile they are. Mobius's in general were completely CQC in the original, and havoc/sakura and pic/rave could manage CQC completely fine in the original too.

1k snipers are expensive SNIPER units; they were never made to actually be front-line and CQC fighters, so the Officer beating them is completely fine, as it's kind of its job to be a CQC specialists

No, not my opinion. Well, my opinion as well, because they got a damn SNIPER RIFLE! Snipers = range and not CQC. Of course you can go in CQC with it, but its waay harder in RenX than in Ren, at least for me. Enemys are moving faster and way more unexpected. And since they "buffed" other Inf against 1hit by 1k Units.. its harder.

Ardente you seem to be a Nod fanboy, and i believe you need to learn how to play as Nod, because Nod was never meant to be able to go toe-to-toe with GDI's vehicles.

Haha funny. No, I'm not a Nod fanboy. Sorry to disappoint you. I just like a balanced gameplay.

And I believe you completely misunderstood me there.

It was just a little comparison for Electrifyer809, which changes RenX have done for GDI and Nod.

And I wasn't even complaining about the Arty, so I dont now why you comment against that.

The Artillery ... it required zero skill to utilise, and you could point and fire shells across the entire map that pawned everything

Same for MRLS now, since it got faster rockets and LockOn.

Without lock on, the MLRS will be useless at firing at air units

Same for Nod and nobody gives a fuck.. Since people always say "Nod isn't supposed to ratatatatat GDI units!" but do not complain about any GDI positive changes, like 1 completely new Unit and 1 new Anti Vehicle Rifle.. and still comment "RenX is a new game" blabla.. But still the name RENEGADE and still the same UNITS, still the same GAMEPLAY.

I just dont get why people dont say anything about GDI, except GDI got nerfed.

As far as I can say, people just said. "Nerf Officer, LaserChainGunner, Chem Trooper".

But why? Because LCG is "dominating" Infantry? Same for McFarLand.

Even Patch(Character) outdamages the LaserChainGunner by far and nobody cares.

GDI without WF still dominatesNod Vehicles, because of the characters.

Nod is kinda fucked against LockOn MRLS, Med Tanks and incoming masswave of Mammoths.

They just have to nerf Patchs damage and it would be fine, at least with the infantry.

And I dont mean "Make it more weak than LaserChainGunner!". Something that equals with +1/+2 seconds in advantage.

Since a single Patch destroys a LightTank almost twice as fast as a LCG needs for a MedTank.

Just compare that vs a Flame Tank. Get 3 Patch and you can send it in under 10 seconds in its grave.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Guest