GDI - Nod Balance

[Terekhov]

Balance on any map that:

a) Has no AGT, and

b) Has no guard towers

Is, at the moment, terrible. Absolutely, positively, horrendous, for games with > 20-25 people

Nod has a huge advantage. Hear me out, I'm posting both what I consider the problems *as well as* a proposed solution.

Problems:

1. Nod's vehicles are better than GDI's.

* Arty crushes MRLS if both drivers are equally skilled. By FAR the biggest vehicle problem, but certainly not the only.

* Apache is undeniably better than Orca. Hitbox, number of missiles, and guns (almost double damage for apache + gun splash)

* Light tank is worse than med 1v1, but light + arty can crush two meds even without tech support, for only $200 more than one med costs.

* Stanks and mammys are almost equally useless, but at least you can rush with stanks (mammys are too slow to get anywhere without half their health taken out, and completely defenseless against infantry. You need 1 mammy + hotwire + macfarland to do the work of two stanks, costing 2x's the money for the same firepower and longevity that lasts until you encounter a single sniper

So, first request: Take a closer look at balancing Nod/GDI vechs. If GDI's supposed to be the heavy-hitting, in your face faction, then give them the tools to do it, not useless hunks of tank defenseless metal like current mammoths, or underpowered artillery like the MRLS, half of whose "advantage" (locking on missiles) can be done by snipers anyway when aircraft show their heads. Not even going to ask who thought the current orca was a good idea or in any way balanced with the apache.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2. Not only is Nod better in the field, but they have a manpower advantage over GDI. See, Nod can prepare their whole team for a rush, leaving maybe 1-2 behind to defend. What does GDI have to do? Leave behind (# sbhs guessed Nod has) + 2-3 just to be able to kill sbhs, whether c4ing or nuking.

So, on a map like Walls, where any advance is easily seen by the defending side, GDI has to literally BE BETTER THAN Nod, because unless they leave their base wide open to SBHs, they're at a numbers disadvantage in addition to the bad vehicle situation.

On Whiteout, the arty advantage over MRLSs compounds the problem outlined above, because they can camp the hill barely showing themselves and still hit GDI's base.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Proposed Solution:

Global Changes:

• Arty/MRLS:

  Arty
  * Nerf: Shell speed and RoF both get taken down a notch; they're both too high at the moment.
  * Buff: Arc increased slightly. This isn't CoD, give those who put effort into the game something to show for it by letting them play with ranges and landscape
  MRLS
  * Nerf: Decrease the missile turning tolerances.
  * Buff: Decrease missile lock-on speed a little bit
  * Buff: Decrease the dead-zone around the MRLS so it can defend itself comparably to the arty at short range.

• Make SBHs flicker when sprinting, like they did in old C&C Ren when they jumped. It would help even gameplay a bit, making SBHs have to be somewhat careful in GDI's base.
  
• Give thermal scopes to havocs/saks. Keep in mind, being scoped is a horrible disadvantage for a sniper at ranges less than long-range, so this does help with people behind bushes / SBHs somewhat, but once within medium range, the other infantry is pretty much guaranteed to be safe from the havoc/sak since it's easy to hit the sniper when they're scoped and very hard for the havoc/sak to do likewise while scoped.
  
• Keeping the above in for historical reference, but having a directional microphone added back (credit to omega79) would be a _fantastic_ way to help even the playing field.

Map-Specific Changes:

Walls Flying

1. Give GDI real turrets, so Nod actually has to try to win, instead of camping for 30min until a lucky nuke lands.

Whiteout:

1. Change the way the top of the hill is structured, so that neither side can hit the other's buildings without being exposed to fire from turrets. This would help prevent insta-win whenever Nod takes the hill.

2. Give manned turrets stealth detection at a range roughly to the side entrances. It'll still be hard to see SBHs against the snow, but it at least gives GDI a chance to find them when entering base.

I used to vote for Whiteout/Walls much of the time. Now I just quit until they're over, because it's no fun as GDI unless Nod is incompetent, and no fun as Nod because the game is a foregone conclusion. Nod camps on Walls Flying until an SBH gets lucky, or takes the hill with arty on Whiteout -> SBH nukes + flame rush, and it's gg with evenly matched teams. 0 balance, 0 fun.

Please fix this ridiculousness. I love this game, but I'm fed up playing on non-defense maps when they're this unbalanced....Lakeside being the one exception (real turrets and one less building to check for/defend from nukes)

Edited May 7, 2014 by Guest

[omega79]

Global Changes:

• Slow artillery shots down, and let MRLS aim closer to where they are so they can defend against infantry like arty can.
  
• Make SBHs flicker when sprinting, like they did in old C&C Ren when they jumped. It would help even gameplay a bit, making SBHs have to be somewhat careful in GDI's base.
  
• Give thermal scopes to havocs/saks. Keep in mind, being scoped is a horrible disadvantage for a sniper at ranges less than long-range, so this does help with people behind bushes / SBHs somewhat, but once within medium range, the other infantry is pretty much guaranteed to be safe from the havoc/sak since it's easy to hit the sniper when they're scoped and very hard for the havoc/sak to do likewise while scoped.

I agree on the first two points ...

the flicker argument has ben said many times, i am sure that is something they think about and stealth in general will be overworked

the thermal view would be horrible imo ...

but i would love to have the directional microphone back

Map-Specific Changes:

Walls Flying

1. Give GDI real turrets, so Nod actually has to try to win, instead of camping for 30min until a lucky nuke lands.

I am absolutely a fan of mini basedefense

Whiteout:

1. Change the way the top of the hill is structured, so that neither side can hit the other's buildings without being exposed to fire from turrets. This would help prevent insta-win whenever Nod takes the hill.

2. Give manned turrets stealth detection at a range roughly to the side entrances. It'll still be hard to see SBHs against the snow, but it at least gives GDI a chance to find them when entering base.

I would love to have a real BD on this map (AGT/OB) and a higher hill ...

[Eagle XI]

* Arty crushes MRLS if both drivers are equally skilled. By FAR the biggest vehicle problem, but certainly not the only.

Speed up the rockets instead, via introducing acceleration for them. The Arty RoF needs a nerf, its problematic if a shell much higher caliber of a tank has higher rof than that tank.

* Apache is undeniably better than Orca. Hitbox, number of missiles, and guns (almost double damage for apache + gun splash)

Cant argue with that. And what about the seat2 weapon's uselesness on both flyers ?

* Light tank is worse than med 1v1, but light + arty can crush two meds even without tech support, for only $200 more than one med costs.

Nod is all about balling up.

* Stanks and mammys are almost equally useless, but at least you can rush with stanks (mammys are too slow to get anywhere without half their health taken out, and completely defenseless against infantry. You need 1 mammy + hotwire + macfarland to do the work of two stanks, costing 2x's the money for the same firepower and longevity that lasts until you encounter a single sniper

Time to revisit that concept of Mammy with mg's on top.

STANK isnt useless per se, its just people lacking teamwork not having a clue on how to utilize stealth to their advantage in a direct confrontation. It has best Dmg and RoF combination(besides that artillery) on a ground vehicle with paper-thin armor and health to balance it out, so far i could observe.

[RoundShades]

My suggestions:

-Double the range of SBH detection, they are transparent anyway all they have to do is hug walls and try not to obviously be seen. If you ever played MNC you know how powerful a cloak that breaks map denial is, even if it doesn't let you walk up and make funny faces at the enemy.

-in lack of that last one, give enemies a flashlight on their primaries? I got this idea from Planetside 2 tbh, if units had flashlights on their primaries that disabled sbh cloak at a close range, it would at least flag them for surefire death instead of they slip away randomly through terrain and distance, and a visible sbh a whole team would actually pursue and shoot at instead of 1 person seeing a flicker and losing it as nobody tries to help him. Flashlights would also kind of help out in the dark maps.

-In lack of that, enemy repair guns should disable cloak? People already try to use them as that, it gives some wierd color effect if your allied, if it turned it off as enemy it might be cool.

-I wouldn't mind a small nerf to artillery hitscan if the arc is barely noticable, like a mix of last build and this build. The arc was reduced but I believe shots sped up in process.

[Terekhov]

but i would love to have the directional microphone back

Don't know how I missed this, adding to my post. Good thought!

* Arty crushes MRLS if both drivers are equally skilled. By FAR the biggest vehicle problem, but certainly not the only.

Speed up the rockets instead, via introducing acceleration for them. The Arty RoF needs a nerf, its problematic if a shell much higher caliber of a tank has higher rof than that tank.

I don't know if I agree here - I'm not a fan of artilleries dominating the whole game. I think both should be nerfed/buffed as follows:

Arty

* Nerf: Shell speed and RoF both get taken down a notch; they're both too high at the moment.

* Buff: Arc increased slightly. This isn't CoD, give those who put effort into the game something to show for it by letting them play with ranges and landscape

MRLS

* Nerf: Decrease the missile turning tolerances.

* Buff: Decrease missile lock-on speed a little bit

* Buff: Decrease the dead-zone around the MRLS so it can defend itself comparably to the arty at short range.

-In lack of that, enemy repair guns should disable cloak? People already try to use them as that, it gives some wierd color effect if your allied, if it turned it off as enemy it might be cool.

That'd be kinda cool, and make sense! Having the repair gun basically "overload" the stealth suit.

-I wouldn't mind a small nerf to artillery hitscan if the arc is barely noticable, like a mix of last build and this build. The arc was reduced but I believe shots sped up in process.

Like I said above, I think they need to go the opposite way. Along with the mammoth tanks' ridiculous speed nerf, I this was another change last patch that was retrograde.

I updated OP's solution part with some of the stuff we've talked about so far.

[challenger]

I totaly agree with you.

Another solution from mine:

MRLS should have 8 milssiles and its missiles should turn , run so fast to catch the enemy.

Also, AGT should have more power. You know, in a stank rush, AGT can not prevent it. But OBelisk is great, it kills everything.

[goztow]

Funny. When the came was first released everyone was saying the MRLS was OP. A few months later everyone is saying art is OP. IMO they are more or less both OK for the moment. But the art could maybe have a slightly lower Rof. Do not lower the art's shell speed. We had that before and tbh it sucked.

I fully agree on the sbh flickering.

[[TmX]Sean]

I think the speed of the mammoth's/stanks both need to be increased and adjusting the sbh's so they are slightly easier to spot can only be a good thing.

Arts/mrls are fine though - they're not supposed to be balanced, they both have advantages & disadvantages.

[XD_ERROR_XD]

Funny. When the came was first released everyone was saying the MRLS was OP. A few months later everyone is saying art is OP. IMO they are more or less both OK for the moment. But the art could maybe have a slightly lower Rof. Do not lower the art's shell speed. We had that before and tbh it sucked.

I'm feeling very similar regarding the entire topic. Nod is not that OP in maps without base defences. Only issue here is that the SBH isn't fully balanced yet, and people start saying everything is inbalanced. I'm not going to patronize everyone here or something, but try testing Nod Vs. GDI when both teams are actually teamplaying.

[Terekhov]

Sean":392xsa8f]I think the speed of the mammoth's/stanks both need to be increased and adjusting the sbh's so they are slightly easier to spot can only be a good thing.

Arts/mrls are fine though - they're not supposed to be balanced, they both have advantages & disadvantages.

Perhaps stanks need a speed boost (not convinced), but what they REALLY need, I think, is to lose that "sliding" movement they have. Maneuverability is vital with a a stank, and they do not have it in Renegade X. If the sliding would go away, I think you would see them become more common outside of rushes, but right now you have to keep 1/4 of your attention on making sure the stank doesn't hit an obstacle, get stuck on the water etc.

Funny. When the came was first released everyone was saying the MRLS was OP. A few months later everyone is saying art is OP. IMO they are more or less both OK for the moment. But the art could maybe have a slightly lower Rof. Do not lower the art's shell speed. We had that before and tbh it sucked.

I'm feeling very similar regarding the entire topic. Nod is not that OP in maps without base defences. Only issue here is that the SBH isn't fully balanced yet, and people start saying everything is inbalanced. I'm not going to patronize everyone here or something, but try testing Nod Vs. GDI when both teams are actually teamplaying.

I have, and Nod wins every time right now because of SBHs unless GDI takes a building in the early game.

Lakeside is even because of guard towers and a smaller base with less room for SBHs to maneuver.

---

Walls Flying is basically a Nod campfest until they get a lucky nuke through when they eventually start nuking 5 at a time. They can see any GDI rush coming a mile away thanks to aircraft, so as long as they're paying attention they're perfectly safe from those and/or hotwire sneaks using normal tactics if both teams are team-playing like you said.

Again though, if both teams are teamplaying, GDI will have more on defense because they have to deal with SBHs (whether they are there or not), which is the exact reason GDI has a hard time winning in the field like they can on maps with decent base defenses.

I've found the only way to really get a building as GDI after the early-game is to use tactics like pushing an APC-full of people up the side ramps. Even 15-gunner rushes don't work well, but a few hotties up the side works wonders. 'Course, once people catch on, that'll stop being a helpful tactic for the most part, even barring map changes by the devs or server rules.

-----

Whiteout is even worse - having a single, wide open entrance with exactly 0 cover leading to Nod's base (oh yea, with 4 turrets) makes GDI's job incredibly hard given good teamplay. If you can't MRLS rush the HoN, then it's pretty much waiting for Nod to do the same thing they do on Walls Flying, because teched arties will overpower MRLSs with hotwires every time on the hill if they have equal skill (dat RoF doe).

Nod's formula for whiteout: camp hill with arties, wait for stanks/sbhs to get break through.

GDI: Try to take hill with mrls -> need meds b/c arties are too good -> too many meds/mrls/hotwires on hill -> base gets hit by stank/sbhs -> gg

GDI tank rush? Laughable. 4 turrets + 2 tech'd arties will wreck any number of tanks in second. Turrets kill hotwires then tanks are just meat. Oh, and you forgot the 2 nukes going off while you were busy trying to do something useful as GDI.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Look: I have NOT always had this opinion. I used to take the exact opposite side in this debate, but the facts - as well as almost 200 hours of experience - aren't in favor of that side.

Nod *is* overpowered atm, mostly due to SBHs and artys, but there are a number of other random things:

* Nod APC's hilariously bad turning is completely unfair to Nod and should be fixed

* Gunner sucks compared to LCG - hell the DPS against buildings is about the same with a $200 cheaper rocket soldier

* Orcas are horrible compared to apaches

...that need to be fixed as well before the sides are actually balanced.

[GatsuFox]

We need the BETA 1 mammoth again. It was actually really good.

Don't nerf arties, that's the only thing that keeps NOD in the game in base defense maps. Stanks are shitty because their rockets are awful. You can't even hit infantry with them.

On non base defense maps the only problem is SBH. If both teams are highly skilled (RARE) then SBH isn't that huge of a problem since a hottie is a better dueler than SBH (pistol + c4).

A basic fix for the lopsided winrate should be making SBH easier to spot. SBH can easily go anywhere in any non base defense map because they're too hard to see EVEN IF their flicker is on your screen. When you point to a cloaked SBH you should be able to use the spot command and even see their character box; however, health and name should remain hidden.

[Bananas]

I think part of the problem is people don't know how to play GDI as well. The stealth problems are hurting GDI at the moment though. It's definitely more fun to play Nod right now.

[disorder]

If you play stank like regular tanks of course you will lose, they are better for getting in behind. Use the ability to flank and you will always get a good few shots off. Combine your timing with light tank strikes from the regular 'flow direction ' for good results.

Anyway, I have a few suggestions for stealth/bases. First, I think it would be neat to have a deployable stealth detector item, that is like a replacement for grenade/c4 and has a small radius and mapreveals enemies who are stealth. maybe lasts 3 mins so you need to keep replacing it.

Secondly I think AGT and OBL are really overpowered, and sometimes it feels like its a fight against those things more than it is against a coordinated and powerful enemy. So Nerf the base defences and allow them to cause significant damage but not almost 1 shot everything. They should be supplemental to the effectiveness of the team.

Finally work the main AGT and OBL defence structures into all maps. Now it is up to the players to coordinate finding of stealth units, but windows of opportunity remain for stealth units to infiltrate. If the stealth unit does get seen by a tower they are not killed instantly and may still get into the base, bearing in mind that a massive tower firing will usually alert someone to your presence anyway.

TLDR merge the idea of all or nothing base defences so that all player classes have an equal footing and less swing towards stealth on non defence maps and power on defence maps.

[xanthar4242]

I am a long time Renegade player, but still fairly new to Renegade X. Since the original, I've often thought about GDI and NOD balance. Even after thinking about it for years, really, I still am not completely sure how to address perceived balance issues.

First off, I think that there are some pretty good ideas in this post, especially in regards to vehicle balance. However, I wanted to share some general thoughts on the matter.

It seems to me that this ends up being about hard counters and soft counters as well as specific roles.

First, the specific roles. Most NOD vehicles have a really specific role that they fill and is immediately obvious what that role is. For example, mobile artillery is for sieges, stanks are for hit and run and so on. The same is not true for GDI. The medium tank is exactly that, not particularly exceptional at anything, but it also not exceptionally weak in any way either. Aside from being huge, the mammoth doesn't have a clear role either. The difference, to me, is that it's harder to do the wrong thing with the NOD vehicles (not that it doesn't happen).

This leads to people wanting hard counters. If NOD gets X, we get Y, problem solved. I personally don't like this because it (to exaggerate greatly) turns balance into rock, scissors, paper. It's less interesting than soft counters in my opinion.

That being said, I think there could be some tweaking done to make vehicles more balanced. I don't know how feasible this suggestion this is in the UDK, but if there was a way to incorporate the armor of the vehicle. Not just the health, but the physical armor. As in, tanks generally have more armor on the front than the back. So if there were a slight damage reduction to shots to the front of a tank and increased damage to shots to the back , I think that would help a lot. Maybe this could vary by tank too. For example, mammoth tanks would take little damage from frontal damage but a lot from rear damage. Again, I'm not sure how feasible this would be (or if it's already in place, but if it is I haven't noticed) but I think it would be worth at least considering.

[Terekhov]

I am a long time Renegade player, but still fairly new to Renegade X. Since the original, I've often thought about GDI and NOD balance. Even after thinking about it for years, really, I still am not completely sure how to address perceived balance issues.

First off, I think that there are some pretty good ideas in this post, especially in regards to vehicle balance. However, I wanted to share some general thoughts on the matter.

It seems to me that this ends up being about hard counters and soft counters as well as specific roles.

First, the specific roles. Most NOD vehicles have a really specific role that they fill and is immediately obvious what that role is. For example, mobile artillery is for sieges, stanks are for hit and run and so on. The same is not true for GDI. The medium tank is exactly that, not particularly exceptional at anything, but it also not exceptionally weak in any way either. Aside from being huge, the mammoth doesn't have a clear role either. The difference, to me, is that it's harder to do the wrong thing with the NOD vehicles (not that it doesn't happen).

This leads to people wanting hard counters. If NOD gets X, we get Y, problem solved. I personally don't like this because it (to exaggerate greatly) turns balance into rock, scissors, paper. It's less interesting than soft counters in my opinion.

That being said, I think there could be some tweaking done to make vehicles more balanced. I don't know how feasible this suggestion this is in the UDK, but if there was a way to incorporate the armor of the vehicle. Not just the health, but the physical armor. As in, tanks generally have more armor on the front than the back. So if there were a slight damage reduction to shots to the front of a tank and increased damage to shots to the back , I think that would help a lot. Maybe this could vary by tank too. For example, mammoth tanks would take little damage from frontal damage but a lot from rear damage. Again, I'm not sure how feasible this would be (or if it's already in place, but if it is I haven't noticed) but I think it would be worth at least considering.

Agreed: not everything has to be a hard counter. However, I think the problem right now is that Nod's units counter GDI's units significantly "harder", IN ADDITION to the whole SBH issue; this leads to well-played Nod teams beating an equivalent GDI 3/4 of the time.

[MonkeyBoy]

Directional armour would be an excellent addition to the game imo. it would give more skilled players in weaker vehicles a chance to stand up to bigger enemy vehicles and add an extra layer to combat that would foresee a lot more chaos and tactical gameplay in action. This game is all about tactics, i only see this as a good thing.

Now to touch on Terekhovs issues here, GDI vehicles are stronger than nods. GDI's strength lies in their ability to overpower and crush NOD with sheer force, while NOD relies on subterfuge and stealth. mlrs vs arty comes down purely to driver skill , while its true that arty wins in long range as mlrs's shells can be avoided relatively easily, the mlrs driver can repair his mlrs inbetween volleys of fire to repair himself while the artillery cant do this effectively as its rate of fire is too quick, thus resulting in a choice the mlrs does not have to make; deal damage or heal.

Also med > arty

However, i agree with the stealth issues. While its impossible and totally unfair to make it possible to keep sbh out of base at all times, i do feel like spotting sbhs is a way harder task than it should be. They should flicker when shot at so gdi has a chance of killing them before they run off into the distance. It is far too easy to suppress GDI with the constant threat of sbhs , thus weakening their ability to launch an effective offensive ( which is their only real strong point). Perhaps a fix for whiteout would be to make the guard towers see stealth? that would force nod to work together to take them out to allow stealth to work better for them.

Aircraft. At first when i climbed into the apache, i took out orcas left right and center , believing ( incorrectly) that they were inferior to apaches in one on one combat. But ive flown enough of each to realise this is not true. One on one its anyones game, but when it comes to dealing with other threats ( namely infantry) , the apache has a clear advantage. I propose something small, perhaps just a slight increase in rate of fire with orcas machine gun or an additional 10 ammo per clip totalling 40. Also while were on the topic of aircraft, while reloading the machine guns , i am totally unable to fire rockets even if they are already reloaded. this only happens when i manually reload, if it reloads automatically, there is no problem.

I eagerly await people telling me im wrong and am an idiot

[Terekhov]

Now to touch on Terekhovs issues here, GDI vehicles are stronger than nods. GDI's strength lies in their ability to overpower and crush NOD with sheer force, while NOD relies on subterfuge and stealth.

Or as it turns out, sheer force and stealth, as GDI is down a tank at the moment.

The mammy is nothing better than a defensive turret vulnerable to infantry if Nod has semi-competent arty/flame drivers.

mlrs vs arty comes down purely to driver skill , while its true that arty wins in long range as mlrs's shells can be avoided relatively easily, the mlrs driver can repair his mlrs inbetween volleys of fire to repair himself while the artillery cant do this effectively as its rate of fire is too quick, thus resulting in a choice the mlrs does not have to make; deal damage or heal.

All the arty has to do is find a piece of cover between the multiple seconds MRLS missiles take to get down-range, and it can easily halve the damage it takes.

@ Repairing: same thing! If you can dodge missiles while firing, you can get out for 2-4 seconds to repair half your arty, without having to expose yourself with a retreat. If you've hit the MRLS twice, all you have to do is hit it with two more shells while it's going back to repair and you win. I've done this HUNDREDS of times. Having shells faster than a med's with almost twice the damage makes things pretty easy.

You may like the MRLS better, but it is simply inferior in the present game state.

Also med > arty

Only at medium-short range - and for double the cost! (the med will still lose 2/3 of its health in the process) Is that supposed to be a fair comparison?

Also while were on the topic of aircraft, while reloading the machine guns , i am totally unable to fire rockets even if they are already reloaded. this only happens when i manually reload, if it reloads automatically, there is no problem.

I eagerly await people telling me im wrong and am an idiot

Good call on the reloading, we need separate keys for guns/missiles.

[MonkeyBoy]

I find that with pretty much every GDI game i play where the whole team gets a tank and goes for the face, we win with overwhelming force. Even with sbhs blowing up everything we still take them down pretty quick. GDI vehicles shouldnt be underestimated.

Ill admit that overall arty is more effective for nod than mlrs is for gdi, but one on one just mlrs vs arty, its entirely situational and skill dependant .

Only a fool med would try to take on an arty at long range! and honestly there arent any long range opportunites in a lot of maps anyway.

You may think that arty is better than a med, but consider this. Meds are weak to other tanks and ravs. arties are weak to EVERYTHING. half the units nod has wont scratch a medium tank but nearly anything on gdi can take down an arty given the right circumstances. you can snipe an arty and kill it in 2 clips with havoc, cant do the same with a med! I stand by medium tanks here!

At least we both agree on aircraft

[xanthar4242]

In regards to directional armor, I've been giving it a lot of thought over the past couple days. This is more or less the conclusion I've reached: if implemented properly, it would go along way to balancing the vehicle play.

First, damage done to the front plates would be reduced in the range of 5-7%. Damage to the top (or turret in general) would be reduced 3-5%. Damage to the sides of the vehicle would be unchanged. Damage to the rear of the vehicle would be increased by 6-8%. These modifiers would apply to all damage to the vehicle. The only exception being Sydney and Raveshaw, whose weapons would ignore the directional modifiers.

Second, what vehicles would have this armor? The medium tank, mammoth tank, light tank, flame tank and the respective APCs. The effect of this change, I think, would be to allow correctly driven tanks to close the distance on siege units more effectively and place more emphasis on protecting the squishy siege units. I think it would be more of a buff to GDI in general, but skilled light tanks would become more valuable to a Nod team.

I do not necessarily think any of this is perfect or indeed achievable in the UDK, but I would like to hear any feedback or changes anyone has in regards to directional armor.

[goztow]

More I play more I have the impression that the only real balnce issue for the moment lies with the sbh.

[xanthar4242]

I think, with SBH, people get caught up trying to figure out how to prevent SBH planting beacons in the first place. If GDI control the field, generally speaking, it's quite difficult for a single SBH to defend a beacon - as long as there are a few people actively defending and patrolling the base. In my experience one or two Hotties, a Mobius and maybe a humvee are more than enough to defend. And GDI controlling the field makes it that much harder to get enough SBH together to guarantee a nuke success. If the buildings are mined, a few people patrolling the base, and a team communicates well it's hard to lose to SBH alone. Granted, that's a lot of ifs, but I don't think SBH are inherently OP.

Edited for spelling

[goztow]

So what Nod does is they do not use sbh and win because they have 4 players more than Gdi...