Regarding Basic Infantry Rifles and Damage

[alpha1995]

Hello all, 2 questions from an old ren player

1) In the original renegade, GDI rifles did 7/35 damage per shot, while nod rifles did 5/25. Will GDI infantry still have that advantage in renegade x?

In my opinion, I think it actually makes gameplay balanced for a number of reasons, especially in no-barracks endgame situations. In addition, Nod has a stronger late-game arsenal with stanks/flames, so it's fair for GDI to have the early game rush advantage. Nevertheless, I still think it's an important topic of discussion and I'd like to hear some of the devs'/testers' opinions.

2) Will bullet damage be modified based on where the hit lands? (for example, pistol shot to body/leg/arm did 10 damage, while pistol shot to head did 50. Will body shots do more damage than leg shots in renegade x, or will the damage system remain the same?)

[PermaGrin]

I am unsure at this exact moment on if GDI is slightly higher than Nod's, I do not recall any talks or discussions on it.

I would argue that Nod is early game, due to cheaper vehicles and that GDI is late game, due to price and armor values.

For your #2, yes, bullets/weapons do location based damage. Getting a string of headshots with the autorifle is certainly more effective than dumping a clip into someone's foot.

[HaTe]

Renegade had body, neck, and head calculations.

[[NE]Fobby[GEN]]

GDI and Nod rifles damage the same. They hold the same weapon, they are both standard infantry, they are both free, and so it makes the most sense that they'd both be equal. Yes, I realize that old Renegaders will find this change to be controversial, but this isn't old Renegade. In the old game, not only were the damage values different, but the Nod soldier had a bigger head, making him much easier to kill as GDI.

While I agree that these imbalances made sense for the original game, Renegade X is different in every way. People in the original rationalized this imbalance by saying that Nod Arties were better than GDI MRLS, so it made sense that GDI would get the harvester on the first run so that they'd be able to afford Meds and put up a better fight against Arties. But in our game, the Arties and MRLS are balanced, and neither of them work the same way they did in Renegade. The MRLS has a rotatable turret, and the Artillery's projectile has a slight gravitational drop. Although the Arty was a personal favourite, it was unanimously better than its GDI counterpart (the MRLS), and it would even be a tough competitor for the Med, which is almost double its price. It had a rotatable turret, a long range cannon, the most powerful projectile in the game, a screen shaking explosion, and it was able to shoot at close targets too. When you balance the GDI and Nod vehicles, you no longer need to give GDI's soldier an unfair advantage. You can bring everything to back to order.

[alpha1995]

Fobby[GEN]":1hfe8vd6]GDI and Nod rifles damage the same. They hold the same weapon, they are both standard infantry, they are both free, and so it makes the most sense that they'd both be equal. Yes, I realize that old Renegaders will find this change to be controversial, but this isn't old Renegade. In the old game, not only were the damage values different, but the Nod soldier had a bigger head, making him much easier to kill as GDI.

While I agree that these imbalances made sense for the original game, Renegade X is different in every way. People in the original rationalized this imbalance by saying that Nod Arties were better than GDI MRLS, so it made sense that GDI would get the harvester on the first run so that they'd be able to afford Meds and put up a better fight against Arties. But in our game, the Arties and MRLS are balanced, and neither of them work the same way they did in Renegade. The MRLS has a rotatable turret, and the Artillery's projectile has a slight gravitational drop. Although the Arty was a personal favourite, it was unanimously better than its GDI counterpart (the MRLS), and it would even be a tough competitor for the Med, which is almost double its price. It had a rotatable turret, a long range cannon, the most powerful projectile in the game, a screen shaking explosion, and it was able to shoot at close targets too. When you balance the GDI and Nod vehicles, you no longer need to give GDI's soldier an unfair advantage. You can bring everything to back to order.

Thanks, this was exactly the answer I was looking for. I was aware of the changes to the MRLS, but not to the nod arty.

My question about the damage though may have been misunderstood. In old ren, a torso shot and a leg shot did the same amount of damage. Will this remain, or can I still instakill with a ramjet to the toe?

[RoundShades]

Better question. In streams, you see that NOD and GDI shoot different colored projectiles. Is that rendered by their weapon, or the unit? Like, if a GDI unit was to use the NOD rifle, would it fire in GDI colors or NOD colors?

That can be answered btw easily, if you just tell us that the rifles are in fact the same rifle, the same exact weapon that both units hold are the same weapon pulled from the same place in game files.

Because if so, then it is obviously in fact the team color rendered by the faction firing the weapon and not the weapon itself. If that is true, it is badass, any weapon your enemy fires automatically clarifies them as teammate or enemy, very useful.

It really does blow when you see gunfire in renegade, then it starts killing you, then you realize it's your teammates bullet color flying past you but obviously an enemy got ahold of one.

[Daedhart]

Better question. In streams, you see that NOD and GDI shoot different colored projectiles. Is that rendered by their weapon, or the unit? Like, if a GDI unit was to use the NOD rifle, would it fire in GDI colors or NOD colors?

That can be answered btw easily, if you just tell us that the rifles are in fact the same rifle, the same exact weapon that both units hold are the same weapon pulled from the same place in game files.

Because if so, then it is obviously in fact the team color rendered by the faction firing the weapon and not the weapon itself. If that is true, it is badass, any weapon your enemy fires automatically clarifies them as teammate or enemy, very useful.

It really does blow when you see gunfire in renegade, then it starts killing you, then you realize it's your teammates bullet color flying past you but obviously an enemy got ahold of one.

Im not sure. The color in the original was done by the weapon, not the team. So if GDI stole a Nod APC, it would still fire red. That was important because the enemy would need to actually look directly at the APC to figure out it was the enemy, which I feel is a perfectly logical tactic.

[Valor]

In the original Ren, if you picked up an enemy Auto rifle it would shoot their color. You would always want to use the one with yellow bullets (GDI) as it did more damage.

Lore-wise, the GDI soldiers are supposed to do more damage since they're better trained. Balance-wise, one could argue that Nod's flamethrower was more effective against infantry than the GDI grenadier, so it makes sense to give GDI soldiers some extra power.

Very few people even knew about the auto rifle difference and fewer complained. I'm fine with whatever the Ren X team chose.

Renegade had body, neck, and head calculations.

This is news to me, what was the damage multiplier for neck?

And yes if you Ramjet a basic on the toe, it's still a OHKO.

[XD_ERROR_XD]

A neck shot inflicts 3 times the usual body damage.

So it's basically 5-15-25 for the nod autorifle, and 7-21-35 for the GDI autorifle.

[HaTe]

Yep, and that was for any weapon (not taking splash damage into consideration), besides the repair guns

[R315r4z0r]

Better question. In streams, you see that NOD and GDI shoot different colored projectiles. Is that rendered by their weapon, or the unit? Like, if a GDI unit was to use the NOD rifle, would it fire in GDI colors or NOD colors?

I'm pretty sure the tracers are still bound to the weapon and vehicle's original faction. And there actually are subtle differences between the GDI and Nod autorifles. Nod's has a darker skin and a red ammo display while GDI's has a lighter colored skin with a gold ammo display.