Renegade NEEDS a change to aircraft / snipers VS light vehinc

[epicelite]

Ok I am asking you to HEAR ME OUT. I have 6 GOOD reasons sniper VS light vehicle damage should be reduced. I bet you can't think of more then 3 that it should not. because it is how Renegade is doesn't count

1) It is total bullshit, snipers can shoot you from across the map and you can not do SHIT but try to avoid them. Kind of hard when your supposed to be IN THE AIR.

2) Snipers make up most of the non-free infantry population in any given server. (the rest is SBH/tech/hotties)

3) Snipers are already powerful enough VS just other infantry, why make one class so versatile?

4) If someone wants to kill vehicles they should be playing Ravishaw or PIC. NOT SNIPER.

5) With snipers out of the picture the tranny chopper would be considered a part of the game by more players.

6) Aircraft were added in a hurry AFTER Renegades initial release. I doubt they had time to fully test and balance them before EA forced it out the door.

ALSO.

The apache/orca need to have machine gun VS armor damage reduced.

Why is it that useing a machine gun to kill a tank is better then useing missiles?

Yes I know that Renegade is the way it is, but the fact is Westwood was never really finished with the game! It was pushed out the door too soon so they had to cut all kinds of corners, aircraft weren't even in the game originally and were added in a patch, before they had time to truely balance everything out it was too too late.

Do you honestly think they wanted flame's to go right through the wall?

Damage to go through walls?

Me to make threads because I don't want this mod ruined by SNIPERS.

A CARBON COPY IS NOT THE CORRECT WAY TO REMAKE A GAME.

Srsly.

Changing things is not the end of the fucking world.

.............................................. the game ...........................................

IN B4 "LOL WERE KEEPING EVERYTHING JUST HOW IT WAS! IT WAS TOTALLY BALANCE U N00B!1"

SNIPERS ARE SUPPOSED TO SHOOT D00DZ NOT HELICOPTORS!11!1ONE!11!1

I never even buy helicopters because snipers are such a problem you can't even fly out of the base before getting killed usually.

[Demigan]

You should check out the site more, there are lots of answers to your questions there.

First of all, they already were going to reduce both the points you get and the damage you deal with snipers vs light armor like aircraft and buggy's, humvee's and artillery units. And they might (I don't know for certain) increase the damage of raveshaws and PIC's vs those same light vehicles. Thus making them the ultimate anti-tank infantry even in the case of artillery.

The chinook, alias 'the coffin', is going to get some new features as well. The mounted machine guns on the side will be capable of fireing, and as snipers will not deal as much damage, they will become a viable option for rushes and perhaps even defence. All you need is a bit of brains of how to avoid the stronger anti-tank units that are capable of shooting you down.

I don't know if they are going to reduce the attack power of the orca/apache. I would think it important as the orca and apache are very powerfull, dispite the fact they can currently be shot down in seconds by snipers. Orca's are a rushes bane in maps as city flying, and a good orca/apache pilot can use the terrain to get rather close to snipers, appear, give a volley of fire to kill one of the snipers, dissapear and repair. Risky, but well worth it if you succeed.

Ofcourse, they are already adding new anti-air possibilities, such as the light rocket launcher being capable of tracking it's rockets on a (tank) target.

Yours sincerely,

Demigan.

[a000clown]

#6 made me think of something.

I know flying vehicles won't be in the first release, but when they are added in, will they be available on the standard maps from the original Renegade that didn't support them? (Like Under, for example)

[genetix]

Evrything is well balanced!! :angry:

U guys need to play clanwars instead of 20 vs 20 pub server with no organization...

x

[R315r4z0r]

You can't simply discount the only viable and extensive reason why none of these things should be changed.

And why do you seem to have it in your head that this is a new game? This is not a new game, what it is is a carbon copy of Renegade.

When you make a carbon copy of a game, you use, yes, a carbon copy.

Admittedly, the sniper damage against aircraft was most likely a bug that was never officially fixed... but that doesn't mean that this team should go and fix it.

The point of this similar to it.

Renegade has been around for 7 years now, still alive and strong. This mod is like a memorial to that. Taking Renegade and modernizing it's engine, physics and graphics. Once you start changing the balance and making new weapons, making new units, you just start to deteriorate and disgrace the game that this mod is trying to imitate.

Don't get my point wrong. No one is "fearing" change. It's just not wanted.

Why would you settle to change something when you already know what you want?

[neagu]

First off, you guys need to realize Renegade-x will NOT LAG like the original, so there will be a huge difference between the 2 from the start. Also with the improved graphics, aiming in general will be impaired by shadows and such (not being able to determine the exact position of your opponent). Only after we will get to test it can we say if it's ok or not!

[Jngdwe]

I don't think this is even worth debating, as the mod is being designed to be Renegade, not a modified rebalanced version.

The point is this, there isn't one in changing the game balancing and the damages. I for one loved how renegade was balanced, and i don't want it to be any different in RenX. Truth is, sniper rounds can penetrate light armor quite easily, just like a high caliber machine gun.

[Demigan]

QUOTE (Jngdwe @ Feb 27 2009, 09:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think this is even worth debating, as the mod is being designed to be Renegade, not a modified rebalanced version.[/b]

I beg your pardon?
They are going to change a lot, to make things usefull again.

Nod turret is being changed
The grenade launcher is getting an overhaul
The tib. auto rifle is altered to make it more usefull compared to the autorifle which costs nothing
The light rocket launcher will get altered to make it more usefull by giving the rockets a slight homing when fireing at vehicles.
Just to name a few changes I read about.

All these changes, as far as I can see, are meant to make those units a viable option to be used in the game. Instead of keeping them appendages for people who just 'enjoy to pick something else for a change'.
It will keep the game balanced, only it will also open options for in the early game.

Yours sincerely,
Demigan.

[Techno]

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I just want my old Renegade back. Nothing more, nothing less.

[epicelite]

Don't give the flying coffin guns! :blink:

I usually like to buy flying coffins and haul snipers and other people around. TOO BAD N00BJETS MAKE IT FUCKING IMPOSSIBLE TO HELP MY TEAM.

[R315r4z0r]

QUOTE (Demigan @ Feb 28 2009, 11:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I beg your pardon?
They are going to change a lot, to make things usefull again.

Nod turret is being changed
The grenade launcher is getting an overhaul
The tib. auto rifle is altered to make it more usefull compared to the autorifle which costs nothing
The light rocket launcher will get altered to make it more usefull by giving the rockets a slight homing when fireing at vehicles.[/b]

No, he is right. This mod is designed to be Renegade at it's prime, just on a new level. Not a rebalanced version.

As far as I know:
They aren't overhauling the grenade launcher, just giving it another useful way to use it with secondary fire. Same goes for the Tib auto rifle.
The homing for the rockets is not a drastic overhaul.

And I've never heard them once mention they would be making the chainguns on the transport chopper usable. And I hope it stays that way. That is something that shouldn't be done. That vehicle isn't meant to be a base rushing vehicle. Just something to transport troops to and from a certain position quickly. Like infantry to the top of the mesa on walls, or infantry to the bridge on city. In that, it is a useful vehicle. When it comes to base assaults, then it is a flying coffin.

Also, I haven't heard anything about snipers doing "less damage" to light armor vehicles. And again, I hope it stays that way. The only change I heard about a sniper is that the Ramjet is getting an added 2 seconds onto its reloading time.

QUOTE (epicelite @ Mar 1 2009, 02:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

TOO BAD N00BJETS MAKE IT FUCKING IMPOSSIBLE TO HELP MY TEAM.[/b]

Lol... that means they are serving their purpose! The enemy is SUPPOSED to halt you from aiding your team. That's the point of the game and their main battle objective!

[epicelite]

SNIPER -> INFANTRY

VEHICLE -> SNIPER

Also a Humvee is usually built with armor that can protect it from a SNIPER.

Go look it up.

[pawkyfox]

QUOTE (epicelite @ Feb 28 2009, 11:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

SNIPER -> INFANTRY

VEHICLE -> SNIPER

Also a Humvee is usually built with armor that can protect it from a SNIPER.

Go look it up.[/b]

You have a point with the Humvee but not with the vehicles.

Especially helicopters. Helicopters ARE vulnerable to sniper fire. Pretty much every part of all helicopters are vulnerable to small arms fire. In militay gunship helicopters however, the glass around the cockpit is armored and senstitive areas around the fuel tanks, under the crew seats, rotar assembly are covered with armor plates.

Unfortunately we don't have that luxury in Renegade as Shooting anywhere on any part of the Orca/Apache will damage. It's not a realistic game.

I kinda agree with what your saying. For example the Ramjet in real life would be more than capable of bringing down a chopper but it would have been much much harder to aim it and get a shot off that actually hits. In ren, there are no physics. Recoil is barely there and not for all vehicles. Funny how you shoot a Med tank and the tank recoils backward while the Arty which in real life would be kicking backwards just stays there in the same spot.

It's all flaws and such.

But don't worry in Ren X, the ramjet reloads slightly slower. you kill an apache in 5 shots and the rifle hold 4 rounds and that extra time to reload the 5th rifle is most likely enough to get you away.

As far as your trouble with Orca getting shot down, I can post here many end-game screens where I totally dominated in flying maps with Orca/Apache killing Havocs, sakuras... The sakuras I rape would usually go back and get a stank to stay safe popping out to fire a shot only when I am near...

[Demigan]

Renegade, as many people already said, was never actually balanced. How many games end with people just dressed as either snipers or engi's in vehicles? lots

They aren't rebalancing it, they are just going to make sure the weapons that don't get used right now because they are useless for their price, become usefull, and an option to use throughout the game.

[epicelite]

2 SECONDS IS ENOUGH TIME TO GET AWAY MY ASS.

MAYBE if you were already right at a wall or something but even then, no.

It should take 10 shots, that's 3 reloads.

[[NE]Fobby[GEN]]

Uhh if you're flying in a helicopter, two seconds does make a difference man. On City Flying or Walls Flying it just takes a few seconds to escape from sniper fire in the first place. 6 shots + new reload = about 10 seconds. Most of th time, when you do take out a helicopter in the original, they're right beside the wall.

A cheap weapon is one that is good against absolutely anything. Ramjets were made powerful against aircraft to balance out with air units, because face it, there are no other weapons or vehicles that are exceptional against aircraft - rifles and APCs are efficient, but most of the time they cannot do the job - thus making the ramjet the only hope in taking out enemy aircraft. Think about it. If you ever play a game where the Hand of Nod is destroyed, Orcas would be all over the place, and Nod wouldn't have anything to stop them with.

We do believe some aspects of the gun are cheap, such as the amount of points you get for shooting at vehicles you cannot damage, and we've already said we will decrease that.

If a team has a bunch of Ramjets though, and they're taking out your Orcas, guess what you could do? Get any tank that costs more than 450 credits and the Ramjets will be absolutely useless against your team. They won't change characters until they die either, since Ramjets cost a lot of money, which means you'll have an easy time attacking structures with not much resistance on their end. It's really quite simple.

[R315r4z0r]

QUOTE (epicelite @ Mar 1 2009, 10:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

2 SECONDS IS ENOUGH TIME TO GET AWAY MY ASS.

MAYBE if you were already right at a wall or something but even then, no.

It should take 10 shots, that's 3 reloads.[/b]

They aren't going to change the game because you got aggravated that you lost to a ramjet. In Renegade, when you get shot down by a Ramjet, you are usually taken out at the last second before you disappear behind cover. Those extra 2 seconds are way more than enough time for you to escape.

[Ban4life]

QUOTE (NEFobbyGEN @ Mar 1 2009, 05:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Uhh if you're flying in a helicopter, two seconds does make a difference man. On City Flying or Walls Flying it just takes a few seconds to escape from sniper fire in the first place. 6 shots + new reload = about 10 seconds. Most of th time, when you do take out a helicopter in the original, they're right beside the wall.

A cheap weapon is one that is good against absolutely anything. Ramjets were made powerful against aircraft to balance out with air units, because face it, there are no other weapons or vehicles that are exceptional against aircraft - rifles and APCs are efficient, but most of the time they cannot do the job - thus making the ramjet the only hope in taking out enemy aircraft. Think about it. If you ever play a game where the Hand of Nod is destroyed, Orcas would be all over the place, and Nod wouldn't have anything to stop them with.

We do believe some aspects of the gun are cheap, such as the amount of points you get for shooting at vehicles you cannot damage, and we've already said we will decrease that.

If a team has a bunch of Ramjets though, and they're taking out your Orcas, guess what you could do? Get any tank that costs more than 450 credits and the Ramjets will be absolutely useless against your team. They won't change characters until they die either, since Ramjets cost a lot of money, which means you'll have an easy time attacking structures with not much resistance on their end. It's really quite simple.[/b]

In conclusion: it is balanced. Dont take light armored vehicles when the enemy is putting a platoon of snipers in. If you go out into the rain, dont forget to take a umbrella (hurrah, a metaphor! think about it! It has more then 2 ways you can understand it and it still says the same!).

To add some stuff: The snipers arent the only versitile units in the game. SHB for example is one of the best (for pro's) units in the game. Time and place are one of the most important things. If you can determine your place and start firering, you have a huge advantage. No vehicle or character is happy to be in the fire of 2 sbh's (yey team tatway) and is able to take down EVERY SINGLE UNIT IN THE GAME with a relative ease. Same for the chaingunner. Gunner is a bit less good becouse of the flighttime of the rockets. PIC and RAV are arguably the best of the game, with their power against everything. Only sniper or close combat is a problem for them. If you take 2 snipers and put them in a team, you have an effect of 1,3 snipers.
Hope that takes down the "versitility advantage" of the sniper.
now on to other matters
If you have to take 10 freaking shots to kill an orca, I and many others would be practically invincible in a chopper(and i'm not even that good, choppers are my biggest weakness in the game)

Also, choppers are flying hummvee's with a machine gun and rockets. What makes them good? flight. If you use it well, there is no stopping you. Like i said before, battle is all about time and location. And again, you are a fast, hard to hit and effective against everything, so they are VERY good. If you dont have a counter against it, you would only stack up your money untill you buy such a thing and you can only do some crazy and very very veeeeeeeryyyy cool air fights! yey! /sarcasm

I hope its a bit clear.
Ban4life

[epicelite]

Lets take a look at what SHOULD be used as anti-aircraft.

Ravishaw/PIC

Rawket lauwnchair

MRLS(Mobile SAM site FFS!)

Anything with a machine gun.

The problem is snipers are TOO VERSATILE!

Have you ever heard of a hard counter? The only one for a sniper currently is a tank.

A tank that can not go fast, easily avoided by anyone not retarded.

A tank can not go to the high places like a helicopter.

AS-IS The only thing you can do once a 2-3 snipers get in the usual spot on a a map is to kill them with another sniper, or suicide your helicoptor to hopefully make it close enough.

[neagu]

Really, if you don't agree with these things then don't play the game. Simple

[pawkyfox]

Well if you are playing in a big server on a map like City_Flying then too bad there are gonna be many snipers and your Orca/Apache won't last too long

[epicelite]

Well maybe if sniper was not jack-of-all killing he would not be so popular.

Here let me make it more clear.

Sniper is effective VS RED

Sniper is useless VS GREEN

Unable to actually do shit about a sniper even tho they aren't easily killed by them. *

Infantry(ALL TYPES)

Humvee/Buggy

MRLS/Artillery

*APC

*Light Tank

*Medium Tank

*Flame Tank

*Mammoth Tank

VTOL/Apache

Flying Coffin

So out of EVERYTHING in the game, that is a total of 5 units that are not easily killed by a sniper, and they are the ones that are useless to get rid of a sniper that's not stupid enough to run right at them.

[Jngdwe]

Thats funny, I have yet to experience the difficulty in blasting snipers with a tank shell from halfway across the map. Or an APC for that matter, because the characters do move rather slowly.

It's balanced well enough, if you think about it enough. One decent direct shot, or blast radius shot, can easily damage the sniper to the point where they must return to refill.

[epicelite]

Yeah there is always a few stupid snipers who stand there in the open, but most of them are in a hiding spot.

[Jointn00b]

did u ever actually try to kill a sniper with a med or an apc? it's relatively easy as, even when they're in a hiding spot, they'll run away when you start shooting at them lol

[Demigan]

Epiclight, you missed something:

While the sniper isn't powerfull against, say, a mammoth tank compared to the amount of health he has. The sniper does gain a TREMENDOUS amount of points for just shooting at it. So even while you might not be able to destroy the tank, you usually get enough points to make up for the losses you will sustain.

Yours sincerely,

Demigan.

[epicelite]

QUOTE (Demigan @ Mar 2 2009, 05:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Epiclight, you missed something:
While the sniper isn't powerfull against, say, a mammoth tank compared to the amount of health he has. The sniper does gain a TREMENDOUS amount of points for just shooting at it. So even while you might not be able to destroy the tank, you usually get enough points to make up for the losses you will sustain.

Yours sincerely,
Demigan.[/b]

Well they already said they were fixing that.

[DXR_13KE]

me versus a team of ramjets? yes please!!!

[BLuel4bel]

QUOTE (epicelite @ Feb 27 2009, 02:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok I am asking you to HEAR ME OUT. I have 6 GOOD reasons sniper VS light vehicle damage should be reduced. I bet you can't think of more then 3 that it should not. because it is how Renegade is doesn't count

1) It is total bullshit, snipers can shoot you from across the map and you can not do SHIT but try to avoid them. Kind of hard when your supposed to be IN THE AIR.

2) Snipers make up most of the non-free infantry population in any given server. (the rest is SBH/tech/hotties)

3) Snipers are already powerful enough VS just other infantry, why make one class so versatile?

4) If someone wants to kill vehicles they should be playing Ravishaw or PIC. NOT SNIPER.

5) With snipers out of the picture the tranny chopper would be considered a part of the game by more players.

6) Aircraft were added in a hurry AFTER Renegades initial release. I doubt they had time to fully test and balance them before EA forced it out the door.[/b]

1. Stand/fly somewhere they can't hit you?
2. Boom headshot?
3. Its just the way it is.
4. What if the vehicle is 2far2hit?
5. Na, its mostly used at the start, when nobody actually has money, which means no snipers.
6. lol

[xmillion]

QUOTE (epicelite @ Feb 26 2009, 11:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok I am asking you to HEAR ME OUT. I have 6 GOOD reasons sniper VS light vehicle damage should be reduced. I bet you can't think of more then 3 that it should not. because it is how Renegade is doesn't count

1) It is total bullshit, snipers can shoot you from across the map and you can not do SHIT but try to avoid them. Kind of hard when your supposed to be IN THE AIR.

2) Snipers make up most of the non-free infantry population in any given server. (the rest is SBH/tech/hotties)

3) Snipers are already powerful enough VS just other infantry, why make one class so versatile?

4) If someone wants to kill vehicles they should be playing Ravishaw or PIC. NOT SNIPER.

5) With snipers out of the picture the tranny chopper would be considered a part of the game by more players.

6) Aircraft were added in a hurry AFTER Renegades initial release. I doubt they had time to fully test and balance them before EA forced it out the door.

ALSO.


The apache/orca need to have machine gun VS armor damage reduced.
Why is it that useing a machine gun to kill a tank is better then useing missiles?

Do you honestly think they wanted flame's to go right through the wall?
Damage to go through walls?
Me to make threads because I don't want this mod ruined by SNIPERS.[/b]

I'm gonna attempt to counter these arguments.

1. Aircraft are quite fast, and can actually hide (below a bridge if the sniper is above,etc.)
Many times i buy a sakura to take down orcas, and they kill me before i can kill them. (annoying)

2. Yeah, and a few others (PIC/Raveshaw, etc)

3. Snipers are good against infantry only if they can hit them, since infantry in renegade can dodge rather easily. (Of course, tanks are easier to hit.)

4. Yes, if they want to focus on killing light and heavy vehicles
if someone wants to take out light vehicles quickly (say an artillery rush) they buy a havoc
if someone wants to take out heavy vehicles quickly they buy a PIC/Raveshaw.
PIC's and Raveshaws reload so slowly that aircraft can reach them quickly.

5. anything can destroy transport choppers, try apc's, orcas, or even the cargo plane!

6. Westwood balanced out aircraft by making them vulnerable to sniper and machine gun fire.
I played in a server where snipers did less damage to light vehicles. Basically what happens is that orcas/apaches completely dominate the game (unless early game rush to weapons factory/airstrip)
If it wasnt flying, then artillery dominated the game.

[BLuel4bel]

QUOTE (xmillion @ Mar 3 2009, 02:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If it wasnt flying, then artillery dominated the game.[/b]

With a tech, yes.

[epicelite]

I am pretty sure I also said the amount of damage a heli puts out also needs to be turned down a notch or two.

[JeepRubi]

QUOTE (epicelite @ Feb 27 2009, 01:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Renegade NEEDS a change to aircraft / snipers VS light vehinc[/b]

People NEED to stop telling us what to do / demanding things.

[Techno]

I saw nothing wrong with the Ramjet rifle, loading time included.

Reason being is that:

1. When you actually get enough skill to get consistent headshots, a 500 sniper is more efficient at tunnel fighting/infantry killing anyway because of the faster reload, faster rate of fire, and instant hit.

2. A Raveshaw/PIC is better against vehicles

3. It does rape aircraft, but in all fairness... what else does? A Rave/PIC does but only at a limited range, which by then an Orca would have already owned it with it's machine gun. An APC/Chain Gun does a decent job but again it is at limited range and is even less efficient than trying to use a Rave/PIC.

In essence, the Ramjet really only excels at one thing: Picking off aircraft. If you use it to Snipe than you probably aren't competent enough yet to use a 500 (which means you shouldn't be sniping, go heal a building or run around with an APC ) and if you use it against vehicles than that's just failure because a Rave/PIC does a much better job.

If there's any one class I have a problem with in Renegade, it's the Mobius lighting-gun extraordinare thing. It absolutely shreds apart anything that comes within range. But I really don't care because there's always a counter to anything, and there's a counter to that counter, and a... etc etc.

[epicelite]

OK OK FINE.

Make it damage the orca/apache normal, everything else way less.

Even flying coffin it is so slow anything can hit it anyway.

[Techno]

QUOTE (epicelite @ Mar 3 2009, 08:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK OK FINE.

Make it damage the orca/apache normal, everything else way less.


Even flying coffin it is so slow anything can hit it anyway.[/b]

Why? Anything else it already does a mediocre/poor job at anyway lol. Most people assume their second role is that of sniper but a 500 sniper does a better job as I stated in my above post (2 up from this one).

A ramjet isn't even that good. There's a reason people called it "noobjet" back in the day.

[MightyBOB]

Ramjet does more damage to light armor than a 500 though so it would be the preferred choice if you need to down an aircraft in a hurry. It would take twice as many shots with the 500 giving them twice as long to hide/retreat/repair/come at you and kill you. I still hate the damn thing though. 500 ftw.

As for Mobius, I actually don't use that class anymore. It's probably my least used class after the Grenade Launcher.

[JeepRubi]

grenade launcher owns.

[NoxBlade]

QUOTE (JeepRubi @ Mar 4 2009, 12:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

grenade launcher owns.[/b]

always fun when gdi haven't got a barracks and war factory, they start chasing enemy tanks trying to hit with grenade launcher

[xoham]

I sure hope we can have a server-side setting to play with the original game weapon balance. If I thougth it was so unbalanced, I wouldn't have played it so much and longed for this mod.

I'll be happy to roll over any imortal snipers in an APC if that makes everyone feel better.

[pawkyfox]

Grenadier is pretty usefull for getting credits.

[Friso1nl]

I personally think that it's not the sniper overpowered, it's just the mobius (mendoza) underpowered and underestimated, I have ripped trough loads of sakura's / havocs with mobius's, getting cheater accused more than once (then again, most good people get that), it also does pretty good damage to vehicles and it's scouting is better then the other weapons, the only thing I hate is it's range, don't get me wrong, I know it is good if it's not to long, but now it's to damn short, it can hardly shoot half way across big bases, which is a pain, just a 25 or 50% extra range would make it awesome (then again, you guys want to stick to the original ren, but it would be nice...)

I just have one question: the railgun does less damage then a PIC on MCT's / turrets, but if I'm correct has a slighty higher rate of fire, do you guys plan on altering that in any way or?

[Techno]

QUOTE (Friso1nl @ Mar 4 2009, 06:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I personally think that it's not the sniper overpowered, it's just the mobius (mendoza) underpowered and underestimated, I have ripped trough loads of sakura's / havocs with mobius's, getting cheater accused more than once (then again, most good people get that), it also does pretty good damage to vehicles and it's scouting is better then the other weapons, the only thing I hate is it's range, don't get me wrong, I know it is good if it's not to long, but now it's to damn short, it can hardly shoot half way across big bases, which is a pain, just a 25 or 50% extra range would make it awesome (then again, you guys want to stick to the original ren, but it would be nice...)

I just have one question: the railgun does less damage then a PIC on MCT's / turrets, but if I'm correct has a slighty higher rate of fire, do you guys plan on altering that in any way or?[/b]

That's exactly what I'm saying,

A Mobius aiming at the head kills faster than two shots from a Ramjet rifle and brings down a Vehicle at close range just about as fast as using the Rail gun. The range limit is the only thing keeping it from being the ultimate weapon, so I think it should be kept as it is.

[epicelite]

An army of 4-5 laser chain gunners can take down any vehicle in seconds.

Also what about it?

Orca/apache take the same damage they do not from n00bjet, everything else takes less.

[TealNinje]

Just need to mention, but a skilled Chaingunner (Officer) can take out a skilled Mobius, because of longer max range and faster rate of fire. Even if it fails 50% of the time, the Chaingunner only costs roughly 1/6 that of a Mobius.

Plus an army of Chaingunners can wear down any vehicle. Even if each bullet only does 1 damage, at that insane ROF they will kill it in a pinch.

[[NE]Fobby[GEN]]

Actually good luck taking down a Medium Tank with 5 chaingunners. My bet is that the Medium tank will win.

[epicelite]

QUOTE (NEFobbyGEN @ Mar 4 2009, 10:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually good luck taking down a Medium Tank with 5 chaingunners. My bet is that the Medium tank will win.[/b]

Well what about my preposal?

Orca/Apache
-Machine gun no longer damages tanks(at least not to where it is better then a missile.)
-Snipers do the same damage to orca/apache, but can not damage any other vehicle. (why does a Humvee need to be week to a sniper?)
-Tanny is undamaged by snipers! It is slow and doesn't even have a gun.

[Demigan]

Right now, there is an imbalance:

Why are so many units barely used? almost 90% of the units consists out of snipers or mechanics. The last 10% consists out of the remaining units such as Patch, gunner, Chain laser, etc. The only exception is that on certain maps the nod population consists for 50% out of SBH (and they suck at using it right).

Which leads me to say: the other units aren't balanced compared to the snipers. Vehicles usually clear up the vehicles, and only during an incredible siege will you see the base fill up with PIC's and railguns. So most units should get an overhaul (in my opinion).

Yours sincerely,

Demigan.

[CrazyAndy]

Well, I think if you buy something cheaper than 1000 credits Havoc, it shouldn't be balanced to be exactly as good as Havoc but relatively good. Let's say you buy laser officer for 450 credits and you run into havoc I'm sure you got at least 1:2 (450:1000) aka fifty fifty chance to kill him.

//Random ending//

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renegade_(video_game)

[Friso1nl]

QUOTE (Teal @ Mar 5 2009, 03:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just need to mention, but a skilled Chaingunner (Officer) can take out a skilled Mobius, because of longer max range and faster rate of fire. Even if it fails 50% of the time, the Chaingunner only costs roughly 1/6 that of a Mobius.

Plus an army of Chaingunners can wear down any vehicle. Even if each bullet only does 1 damage, at that insane ROF they will kill it in a pinch.[/b]

Interesting, seeing how the rate of fire of chaingunners is the same as minigunners and volt auto rifles, theo only thing that helps is the range, but that is the whole disatvantage of a mobius, isn't it? Besides, chaingun is pretty inaccurate, while volt auto rifle ain't...

And, erm.... you say an army of chain gunners can wear down any vehicle, a friend and me were messing around with that a while ago, I logged in with 6 accounts on my clans training server, let them all take a chaingunner and a took an APC, it was standing still like 3 meters away of all the chaingunners, so easiest it can get. The 6 chaingunners took the APC down at reasonable speed (still not that good), but I think one mobius and maybe even a laser chaingunner could do the same amount of damage in the same time(maybe 2 laser chaingunners), where the laser chain gun and volt auto rifle have instant inpact so it's easier hitting vehicles to begin with (even though it's not very hard to begin with, but you get the idea)
and you have 5 (or 4) people who do something usefull...

PS: Pure anti vehicle talking, I still think chain gunners own.