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They do need a nerf. They are a bit too effective. I completely agree. I just am leery of certain changes suggested in this thread. Mob/doza do need a good counter, currently it's syd/rav. I fear disrupting this balance. Also at close range, with equal skill doza shouldn't probably even take damage from a havoc. Furthermore, free units vs top tier units like doza... I've rarely seen the free units win, not sure what your basing that from. A good doza can probably kill 5 soldiers with a single clip of ammo. (Math not checked) I should mention I kill syd and ravs with the 500 cred snipers, not tanks. Very few players threaten the 1 hit kill with them. Most go for bodysuit then pistol finish.

Agreed. I think something is needed. Let's just wait and trust our devs. They did bring us this great game back!

Just saying, as a long time franchise player... I agree with almost all the shit. Hell, I've thrown a lot of it! But the point still stands, learn a game's mechanics, get better.

You sound rather angry and offended by this. When I started playing RenX again, I sucked. Seriously, I hadn't played shooters in years, my skills had atrophied quite an embarrassing amount. I didn't bitch and moan and attack other community members. I practiced. I talked to better players. I listened to what they said. I got better. I still am doing so. How often do you play as a rav or syd? Are you one of the players who can hold off a whole 5 man squad? If so then we should consider your advice, since you clearly know rav/syd. If not, perhaps you should play rav/syd for awhile. I gotta tell ya, I kill more rav/syds than any other 1000 cred class. So many people hop on them thinking they are gunna one hit KO everything. 2ndly. timing your shot is EVERYTHING in renegade. How do you think POI and others do so much damage with doza? They time the bullets. Each. Individual. Bullet. It most definitely is a skill. It most definitely is a game mechanic. It's one of the harder mechanics to learn in renegade, I'm still TERRIBLE at it. I'm learning, perhaps instead of attacking other community members you could try learning. Finally you can get a 1 shot kill with a missile launcher... Should we make missile launchers have scatter shot? /s Hell I think you can 1 shot kill with the grenade launcher... Should we remove all 1 shot kills?

If this change is implemented, syd and rav will become sniper fodder. Any sniper worth the name just has to point at the center of the blue/red line and click. Would also likely cause many players to stand still to try and maximize their shot... again bang dead lol. Cool idea though. I love lasers.

IF the player skill levels are equal, shouldn't mobs/dozas have the advantage over rav/syd at close range (plz feel free to correct me if i'm wrong)? I personally struggle with consistency at close range with rav/syd. So perhaps this will balance out their ability to act as "no scope snipers" at midrange. BUT I am just theory crafting, I don't have any experience with the in-code numbers/multipliers/spread data.

The scattershot idea is "cool". But IMO it takes away much of the reward for skill. Also I'm not knowledgeable to comment on specific multipliers, damages, and ranges. BUT I do believe in incremental changes. Small changes, and see if they work. Rather not go crazy on the rework of a much loved class.

Spray control in RenX is to just slightly move your mouse downward as you fire. Its a simple mechanic. I know this will come off asshole-ish. But instead of complaining about basic properties of ALL shooters, perhaps learn the basic mechanics? I'm a long time dark souls player, and that community has the following modo: GIT GUD. Its rude, crude, and true. Learn the mechanics, learn the strats, crush your enemies!

A common thing in FPS is to try and MAX frame rates, not image quality. This is done to increase reaction times, and mechanics such as bullet timings. I've always turned off all cloud/fog/light-rays/similar effects just to keep a clean screen so it is easier to hit my target. It is not as beautiful, but I do find I noticeably play better.

TBH I think rav's and syndeys are OK. My main concern is that IF we nerf them, doza's and mob's will just roll over all infantry. There should be some skill rewarding classes. I understand the this is a community of vastly different experience, some of us have been playing for years, others for months. Those playing for years, and dedicating the time to learn the mechanics should have ways to "out play" the less skilled. The sniper nerf was definitely needed. Perhaps instead of adding spread to rav/syd we could decrease their range a bit OR decrease their damage as range increases? As I write this the more I think about it, I really believe that last idea may have some merit. Make rav/syd damage decrease with increasing range. What do you all think? Edit 1: ok perhaps the damage multiplier should decrease with range. If the damage alone does, they may become less effective vs vehicles.

Maybe we could look at it this way: reduce all vehicles AOE radius and damage (thus making it harder for tanks to deal with infantry) increase the armor of flame tanks (give them a chance to make it across map) lower the rate of fire on: meds, lights, artys, and MRLS BUT increase the damage (so their dps remains roughly the same) of each shot/projectile. (make each count for more rather then #startfire-afk) Mammy's are hard IMO, but perhaps we could make the main guns shoot at more of an offset then they currently do (ie less bursty more sustain, but the same dps). Hopefully that makes sense. NERF hottie and tech repair rates on vehicles... A little, not alot. Totally realize i may get some hate for this, but they repair vehicles SOOO fast. Leave building repair the same. IMO the last one may be the real answer here. Tech and hottie OP!

Quoted from the patch thread. I realized after browsing the forums a bit, this may be a more appropriate section for such discussion. Regards, Twisted Viewpoint

GDI has a certain exponential growth with team work. Face down 8 MEDS back up by a couple of Hotties as NOD. Then I think your GDI vs NOD balance complaint might be tipped on its head. Even compared to an 8 man flame rush -way back when I have had the unfortunate experience of being on either side during clan wars- I still fear the sight of 8 MEDS moving across the map.