RoundShades

I see your points, and agree on the design, but the invincibility altogether from all fire can be an issue. I agree on it being covert, it not triggering oblesk, and such. I don't mind it staying in. If everyone else DID want it removed, trade it for knee deep water and a rocky border covering the oblesk?

Well go talk to old Ren servers on that one, THEY had the vet system give health regen. Which also carried over to tanks too.

That is, by far, the single worst thing that could happen to any online shooter. Having it as an item replacing c4 and requiring a beacon placement time to activate isn't too bad, one or two time use tops. Having very very slow regen, 2 health every 3-4 seconds for veterancy for instance, is fine. Don't make it too easy. Quake and old Ren servers had both those things.

Deaths are the one thing one shouldn't consider, considering the former noobjetting, the fact you need to sacrifice deaths to accomplish things sometimes, and the fact the game doesn't focus on it. I think that would be a fair change.

Balance not kept in mind, this sounds pretty gdi-commando like, going submersed in the river to infiltrate the HoN. Sounds like it should have been mission 2 in the Black Dawn campaign...

And you can only tell how imperative it is depending on how frequently spammed and how many seperate people spam it. Otherwise, there is no difference between c4 and a building getting attacked. Targetting c4 in a structure would be a more definitive version of "building needs repaired" that is more urgent when read... ...beacons used to have this issue, not being able to spot a beacon in B1, people resorted to spamming buildings, and some people would spam all 4 buildings, and often people ran to the wrong ones.

You are talking auto-matchmake. Which in an IDEAL world would be the best. However, it takes a playerbase of at least 300 players on at a time, to attempt to match casuals to casuals and veterans to veterans without accidentally putting bads with goods and pissing them off and shying them away. What we currently have, is a choose-a-server, which considering there are community owned servers and admins and 1-4 servers full at a time, is the best way for now hands down. What he talks about, is an ingame system, where everyone starts a match with 0 vet points, they get vet points from actions not credits, like repairing 1000 health, getting kills on infantry and vehicles, ect... and those point buy prohibitive items like secondaries and vehicles without credits or the structure alive, and that is hopefully the way you earn things like that. It would be swimming, if it also rewarded and rewarded better for capture of silo, killing enemies around silo, killing enemy engineers within repair distance of their teammates vehicle, killing enemies with high killstreaks like snipers, assists, and time spent around 3+ teammates. Then a team is both encouraged to play tactically and proper, and rewarded for it despite being on the losing end of a siege just by playing a war of attrition with the tunnels and countering the vehicles without dying as much.

They are communities, with a clan leading it. Basically, the site/server owners/operators and major players, are part of the actual namesake, while they have a website with open enrollment and participation. What timezone are you? Because I am from Texas, but work overnight, so I am on a variety of hours. I have been casual-ing it up so bad lately, check my youtube for proof, that I might not be as good as I was back in the WoQ clan days of 2006...

I agree with that to a degree, which is why a Vet system should incorporate more reward for repair than building spam, and also reward kills. And that still isn't enough, honestly kills should give you at least 1/10 a unit's value. 15 creds for a free infantry, 25 for a 175, 50 for a 350 or 400, 60 for a 500, and 80 for a 1k. But that is just because building spam is a mechanic that needs rebalanced. Part of the game, sure. But a vet system should reward a valiant defense, especially a defense being won by attrition (more kills defending against the shelling vehicles). The score and creds you get from shelling a building is enough, and the creds you get should be reduced slightly at that.

Password servers are entirely possible if you can find enough competitives to fill them. In my opinion, 14 a team would suffice with teamwork on a competitive scale, and you could always use 20 people if you got that many. But the playerbase is happy enough with the current situation. To be honest, a tutorial showing teamwork could help, and rewards for teamwork via vet system would be nice too A LA assist vet points and proximity to large squad of teammates passive bonus. If people simply carried out tasks in groups more, spotted more, and didn't wander around as aimlessly, which I do all 3 at times, then it would be a sharper competitive game from casuals. And all that can happen through veterancy rewards to be honest. If the silo, repairs, squad travel, harvester defence, ect. rewarded veterancy, then one could be taught to play right by dangling a carrot...

Question: How many clans are in-game right now, how many "big time players" are amongst them? I know it isn't "just" EkT and TmX. Matter of fact, competitive play clans use a variety of servers besides those when they do play, but that isn't even regularly. Second: How many players to you hope to recruit? I would honestly join. I would even be actively training up the hoarde of new blood coming in and seeing if any of them can enjoy a little team effort which is OP as hell, such as coordinating an APC or Apache to come swooping in just after a beacon plant to buy time. I just don't think the community is big enough to find much vet blood that doesn't belong to EkT, TmX, or one of the inside-niche clans. Even so, we get 3-8 people, and we can start doing squad efforts and making people notice us when we do well in-game.

Agreed. Tanks lose to anti-armor infantry from above. Those lose to snipers. You can counter some of their snipers with yours. You can also do tunnels. It has divided up the chances to more than old Field: Tunnel and base entrance, hold both and you can never lose them.

If we added the vet system, and it gave health to survive ramjet from free class, then it might be okay. I like it as-is though. Although snipers having 3 mines they can use to exceed the mine limit, or AT mines, or just making ordinance like that a-la-carte purchaseable like emp nades and smoke nades are, would be better explosive ordinance for a sniper. But I always thought that should be completely flexible, in light of how already flexible it is, and in light of tech/hotwire being overused.

Agreed. But no, seriously. What if field had two layer of tunnels, not too unlike complex? Then no team could truely have 100% coverage of every tunnel entrance. Especially if you add 2 tunnels leading to the bottom layer. The bottom one can lead out to the bottom or sides of the river. A lot of mapping, but maybe fun depending on the mood of the mapper. What if field also had 2 base entrances? By which I mean, a very cleverly designed fork at the entrance, one goes underneath of the new infantry mountainpass ramp, and it also has a blocker ramp so it is exit only and enemies can't use it to fire in or come in because it is curved and exposes no opening to fire into base? The vehicles leaving base would have twice as much surface area to exit with compared to those camping outside, allowing the defender to recap the field using 2 prong attack methods, or simply leave base by the other exit and attempting to quickly drive away. Also, it couldn't hurt to add chunks of rocks in the center, for tank and sniper cover. Because snipers won't opt for low ground when they have so much high ground available. If there were chunks of rock in the center, infantry as well as tanks could use them for some cover. However, you guys exxagerate, field is a lot better, and under has the same problems and is also alright besides almost intentionally way too many climbing bugs...

Added this to my Suggestion Thread about spotting as well. I may have said either you or HaTe suggested this, but honestly you two bleed together sometimes viewtopic.php?f=13&p=147484#p147484

Edited original for 2 more important additions.

No, I'm going to judge that on a case by case basis. It had 14 seconds left on the fuse. Like, in my specific case if you would please judge, I went in solo and spoofed a confusion despite a well defended base (nod is a buncha campin babies lol), and all someone had to do was stay by the mountain crevice, wait for 25 second mark, and come swooping in with theirs and bomb the rooftop and attempt to land on the beacon and thus the techs diffusing it. They might repair you for a moment. Instead, was 4 seconds off of setting up a winning game.

On lakeside, I used this to fly backwards with a stolen apache, onto the HON, plant a beacon, and then crush a tech that was diffusing, because he still had no idea. On that note, the cruddy thing is, it was still diffused. That was a "I should have had a group of orcas ready to come in at 20 seconds" via teamchat error. I did q-mark my beacon, but nobody with air came in to help. Note to players, when one of your teammates plants a beacon in enemy base, you are obligated to go in and suicide it if you are in an air vehicle, or even an APC if on that side of map.

Two suggestions while I remember them: 1) being able to Q-Spot timed c4 as you can Beacons already. It takes unrealistic cooperation to diffuse a c4 on a vehicle, by the driver and the repairman. One doesn't cooperate, it can't be done. Likewise, a message showing confirmed c4 placement on a structure, can be more convincing to rally repair support. 2) Q-Spotting a teammate's full health vehicle to request a ride. Because nobody wants to pick me up, and I want to believe it is because they don't notice me as they are driving off. ...i hope... EDIT: More Suggestions: 3) Being able to spot crates. 4) I read a thread by HaTe or Yosh (it was Yosh... viewtopic.php?f=35&t=75013), about spotting area volumes. Basically, to sum that up, being able to spot an infantry in your base and you get the general location of him, and which base (GDI PP or Nod PP), as well as what enemy infantry or vehicle (if not specific, at least categorize into "engi, tech, sbh, sniper, low tier infantry, high tier infantry, aerial vehicle when it's air is also important)

Mcfarland? He doesn't do a whole lot of damage. I would still say he is UP considering he is incapable of ending a fight rather fast, if it wasn't for his utility to spam from safety. Humor me, how many shots from his splash nade does it take to kill a free infantry? I got into a fight with a 500 sniper, and it felt like the shotgun did half the damage of an actual shotgunner, and the splash nade did 1/7th of his health all real close hits. I was still suprised by how short the splash range is, it is far enough but just barely. Given his price, I would be satisfied if it stayed as is but not as much if nerfed. Actually, I sort of like his anti air damage with his hitscan shotgun, that is kind of powerful and maybe should be not hitscan.

Good to hear, can't wait for another lengthy read!

I won't let it. Also +1 for Gunner/McFarland/Grenadier having self splash damage. I would I'm real bad about that. I too +1 self-splash. That in Unreal had to be an intentional setting, why on earth was that made!?!

That walk back to base, if it weren't for sprint I would agree. I mean, vehicles don't have to return to base, and one could argue it would present a higher team coordination and skill level to have an ammo limit to vehicles. That would just place unreasonably high expectations of players though. Heck, it might even be fun to add ammo to vehicles, along with an "ammo pack" that drops ammo a vehicle can pick up. As is though, I don't even want to open that can of worms. We now have sprint, and vehicles are fine enough given tentative objectives that they miss like the tunnels and silos. Infantry refill is acceptable given travel time on foot is generally faster. Gatsu was joking though, right? Anyway, the point is how much ammo per clip, not how much ammo per unit, although some units need more than others. I never NOT run out of marksman ammo, and that I believe was buffed, and laser chaingun which spends clip after clip and holds the line pretty well.

I mentioned that specifically, because it is controllable. You can make pattern-spreads. You can make spreads where it doesn't hit the center anymore than 1 out of 3 bullets, or the "top side" any more than 1 out of 3 bullets, or the "right side" any more than 1 out of 3 bullets. Often, games that do this, normalize spread to reduce luck. Games that don't do this, gives the weapon user "happy accidents" like 3 bullet headshots from the farthest left edge of a shotgun blast. In the chaingun's case, giving it a spread a certain angle from the center and in a spinning pattern, would be "understandable" i.e. not obscure or hard to learn the pattern, realistic in a way, and limit how many headshots or bodyshots you can get on a target from so far away as one of the edges or the shoulders would have to miss for the other edge to hit. If not a pattern, and the laser chaingun can take note of this as well, then you can make it to where it can only be so wide of a spread and so far away from the immediate last bullet fired. This gives benefit of burst and releasing the trigger occasionally, as well as making the pattern reliably able to do damage and be predictable and not as random, as it basically "draws a trail of bullets across a wall". One bullet is milimeters from the next, the next moves a little more, none of the bullets are hitting opposite sites of the reticle of each other, but they also aren't all hitting the guy. This is a little luckier if it chooses to sweep him or not, more bullets may hit one time than the next time, inconsistent results, but the damage per range would always be the same fraction which is particularly good. I don't do TF2, but a lot of TF2 take this into consideration like the Minigun and the Scattergun and Shotguns, even the hanguns often make sure the bullets are fairly spread. The problem with TF2, is that it is evenly spread, but a lot of guns have obscure patterns so you try to predict where their head will be when the bullet comes out or what shape the pattern fires to make their body fit it if it is right-side-heavy.

Normally, I would think you are talking down to someone. But considering it's Yosh, I think you both are at the top of the game pretending each other are little kids. I understand why Rokuman is worried, but really you guys are right. What he doesn't understand, is that the VP system really just limits access to things early game, and then grants their access by putting in hard work. Now, that hard work isn't "elite", in Renegade Classic they made it sound like you were a war hero for getting them but really most the people with veterancy weren't war heroes but people who put in 15 minutes straight of vehicle and/or base repair and were comphensated for it. Rokuman, think of it this way: Veterancy will mostly reward repairing and diffusing and capping the silo. It hopefully might reward kills on enemy engineers repairing armor or structures and enemy infantry with 3 or more enemy kills in the same life or enemies within proximity to the silo. It hopefully will reward mildly basic kills, and spotting enemies, and maybe more if you spotted an enemy that results in a kill. It hopefully will not reward "just shelling a base" or at least at a lower gain. In this regard, it can be considered an anti-snowball mechanic, as a team building a score/credit advantage through structure-milking is negatively building up an imbalance against themselves in Veterancy. They have ways to marginalize this, by actually killing a structure, minimizing their own losses, covering their defense as a lot of winning teams even forget about the silo right beside them in the field. Since crates are becoming "jungling" rewards, rewards gotten by patrolling the field in their capture and can be collected even by a losing team because a winning team is all piled up at a base entrance and isn't actively inside the field, they might should also reward some veterancy or at least have a chance at rewarding veterancy.