RoundShades

I want to agree with you, just so they buff pic/rail with larger projectile, and make that shtuff insane. It would be way OP though. But dem Kamehamehas. Jus do it in honor of the new Dragonball Super coming out. Honestly, the PIC/Rail is fine, if not just a little lackluster with all 3 1k units being a lot more situation rather than omnipotent. The 150-350 units are most useful. I like that to be honest. At the same time, maybe they should be a lot worse at what they weren't meant for so the 1k units can shine at being generally good at all. This is my only problem with the rocket soldier. I have no problem with it, other than the 1k units don't feel worth it anymore. I still don't want to change the rocket soldier though.

Really Guys. A Rocket Soldier thread before this? Really. I am going to have to be the one that makes this thread... Sigh... Okay then. Click. And... Discuss! I just think it needs a 100 round clip, little less damage and little more rate of fire, and some kick/spread that makes it impossible to 100% hit someone with every bullet mid-range but more bullets hit the closer you get. Mainly cuz I think you should buy a massively overpowered shotgunner, and it should be effective at point blank range and not midrange. He would go back to being the autorifle at autorifle range, but he would be much more effective against light armor, perhaps anti air, and he would be much better than autorifle at closer range.

I like their damage, as it doesn't transfer to infantry well, has less total ammo and fires at half(?) the rate. The swap would be fun if anything not to have anymore but that might be a limitation of the weapon's animation keeping it unswitchable after firing for so long or while/after reloading. Basically, it plays a vital role which is why it should cost but always be available as well. However, I can see it getting 10% damage nerf. Just not much else. Slight price increase? Rather gunner get changed more (or both), than I really care for rocket soldier. Also cared to see a thread about Officer more than this. Haha.

This is by far the best idea I had as far as easiest thing to do the very next balance patch. Because he is right, with the credits decrease, this lets servers both practically turn it off (set to 10000%) and/or adjust it in case the number is too high or too low by default. If credits are somewhat adjusted, there has got to be a tolerable percentage between 200% and 400% that makes the game fun but not completely free of any consequences. I don't know why I didn't mention it earlier, probably because "price gets higher the more it's used" fixes this, but marathon servers will need overall higher costs, since in an hour long game people will just have money to throw around galore compared to aow games that have a time limit to both accumulate credits and have time to do something with them before it's too late in the game to have effect. And as I said before, this would be REAL nifty to have for the Bar/HoN as well.

For now, could you change the names of the section and links? If so, just change them to be more informative. Official Mod Tools (SDK) SDK- Official Mirror 1 SDK- Torrent 1 SDK- Multiplayer Forums Renegade X Game Launcher 4.02 (Client/Server) Game- Official Mirror 1 Game- Torrent 1 Game- Multiplayer Forums

It does work on the SMART acronym, and reading is super fast unless you do it aloud, but fair enough. Problem) The shotgun shouldn't instakill. It should probably take 2 well placed shots, 3 if not perfect. Reason) It is a free weapon. If you want something to punish someone at point blank range, then make it cost something. Officer comes to mind. Option 1) Apply volumetric projectiles to shotguns, but in a different way: 1) 12 pellets like normal 2) moderately midrange like normal 3) Current damage roughly 4) Each of the 12 pellets is linked to the same damage. To hit an enemy with all or 1 of them, does 190 damage. 5) Have literal damage dropoff by range, evenly from max damage at 1 meter, to full range having 30 damage. 6) Increase max damage at it's longest range to 50 damage if ADS. 7) This comes with a perk of hitting multiple enemies with it's full damage too While I don't want to do this, it works in another game. Option 2) You could take the same volumetric projectile idea: 1) still 12 pellets 2) same damage a pellet 3) same range 4) same spread and ADS 5) However, now 9 pellets are the max damage. You can hit with less and do less damage, but any 1 thing hit with more than 9 pellets, will just do 9 pellets worth of damage. Obviously the headshots will count. That way, it also caps the max damage Easy Fix) Just bring it down to 5 pellets in an "X" shape, same spread angles per distance, with 2x more damage a pellet. That way, headshots are unlikely, multiple pellets hitting at midrange is less likely, and it still does the high bodyshot damage of 120 and headshots around 160. Ever play Rainbow 6? The original? Yeah. Just do that. ADDED BENEFIT) Headshots are now directly linked to "aiming dead center", not a random stray head bullet, since 1 bullet always travels dead center and the other 4 always travel in the exact same angle in an X shape.

Well, currently, they have 12 pellets do 16 damage (could be vice versa but don't think so), and that is 192 damage. Each pellet is capable of 2.5x headshot multiplier since after beta1 (beta1 shotgun couldn't headshot). That is a deep barreltap max damage, we are talking head touching the origin of the bullets, of 480. Enough to 1 hit kill any class. For a reasonably distant shot to 1 hit kill, it simply needs for 1 bullet to headshot, and 10 bullets make contact. That spread happens sometimes, moon shaped spreads and all sorts of shtuff that'd make you scratch your head. For a medium range shot to kill, it isn't asking for much, for 10 bullets to contact and 1 to headshot is nearly reliably reproducable with twitch-shooting with good timing. As long as they are just close enough for their torso to fill your ADS reticle. That is honestly probably reliably doable to anyone standing on one side-ramp of the HoN by anyone standing on the opposite side's ramp, from window through the building to the other window for instance. Now, for closer range, Bar sandbags to one of it's doors, it is almost impossible NOT to instantly kill someone. You need only land 3 bullets with a headshot, the inner spread really, and you do 120 damage with just those bullets. You then need only 4 other bullets, about half the shotgun spread, to kill them. So, the shotgun is both, reliably situationally overpowered as a shotgun with an acceptable margain of 15 degrees of error from center-shot in obtaining a lethal or very close to near lethal shot, I mean full health to deep red or worse, AND overpowered if the spread is random and at medium range you get hit with half or more of the shots.

Ehh but the other free classes take a long time to kill because it's arcade and not generic military shooter. The shotgunner falls under that category. Really, a lot of classes have pretty fast kill times in this update. Officer, shotgunner, chem sprayer, even IMO grenadier. Autorifle and Marksman are pretty much the 2 that don't, and marksman can get opportunity kills or luck out on their range at times. Other classes don't get quick kills, they either melt armor and still kill slightly faster than autorifle, or they instakill but fire very slow. Now, the Ramjet, a 1k unit, can NOT 1 hit kill without a headshot, and it fires a single bullet meaning the single bullet MUST hit the head. So, why does the shotgun luck-kill someone in 1 hit? Even at medium ranges with some luck? It really shouldn't, it should be below lethal even if slightly even with a headshot, however that can be facilitated and the bodyshot damage still be ~100 and it still be decent at a medium range. Now, I don't care if it gets damage or range nerf, but to do what I just described, likely will take some adjustment of both as well as spread. Matter of fact, one thing I didn't mention because it doesn't really fit in this game, is volumetric projectiles. What you could do, is do a variant of volumetric projectiles because I played a game with a literal volumetric shotgun where any pellet did 100 damage but all the pellets hitting 1 target didn't do anything additional and that is NOT for RenX. But, if you went the distance to make it so there were 9 pellets, 1 pellet did 20, 2 pellets did 40, 3 pellets did 60, 4 pellets did 80, 5 pellets did 100, but 100 was the max, and 1 pellet was allowed to claim "headshot damage" for the entire spread making it's total max 20x3.5...145 damage a shot? So it does 20 at long range, 60 if lucky at long range or if poor aim at close range, and 80-145 with better aim. Which is a lot more balanced than 1 hit kills point blank and 120 damage down a damn tunnel. Again, just providing several development related ideas here. I don't care what happens, I just really don't like a free class having 1 hit kills in a game that really doesn't facilitate that sort of thing, especially random 1 hit kills from a medium range because the spread happened to be human shaped and clustered all to one side.

My list, I no longer wish to specify Flichette anymore, and now wish to vote generally for "Sidearms" instead. Please change it, thank you.

Just that, a per-purchase price increase can't be a percent, as buying a humvee would be driving prices up on you ever getting a tank instead. It has to keep that in mind. 1) In that regard, it can either increase prices more the longer the WF is down for, so every minute in the game is another +200 to the price and 20 minutes in the game everything costs 4k more. 2) Or it can increase the price by whatever you purchased last, accumulatively. If a humvee is 600 when the WF is down, you buy another one for 950, then 1300. If a med tank is 1600, its 2400, then 3200, then 4k. If you buy a humvee first for 600, then the next vehicle is a med then it is only 1950 because the humvee you bought first was cheaper. I only say that, because buying a humvee to defend with until you get credits would be a tactical use of it, except it would become untactical because that humvee would make you need to buy 2 tanks instead of just 1 because you bought the humvee and drove the price up. 3) And by far the easiest fix to test in a quickly thrown together balance patch by the devs, is just to try out a credits nerf along with a 3x cost. 2400 med tanks, you can afford one to intimidate enemies from just rampaging in with their tanks, but you can't afford a rush of them anymore. I doubt any team with any economy can afford 3x tanks indefinitely, especially with a silo nerf and less credits being milked from buildings.

There is a sort of option to it. Among a handful of "normalization" the shotgun's weapon needs, because right now it is highly unreliable where it shoots and how much damage it does. It could probably use 120 as maximum normal damage, limit 1 bullet per shot to count for headshot damage, and have the spread to perfectly fit into the torso area of a target the length of the HoN inside walkways when ADS, and be 25% wider if not ADS. That normalization gives it 2 hit damage, plenty of chance for the bullets to stray but plenty of chance for good aim to maximize potential, and reason to use the aim secondary. What the shotgunner may need after that, if that is still too much effective range to try to backpedal from, is an actual honest to goodness speed handicap of 10%. It isn't much, sprinting still outruns a backpedaling enemy, but not by as much. And someone smart enough to actually sprint away from a shotgunner will actually GAIN ground so it isn't a death sentence. Also, if the devs are reluctant to give it a dead-stop range cutoff, then it can keep the longer end of it's range for realism, as long as actual bullet damage recieves "dropoff". It would be the only weapon in the game to have damage dropoff from range, but it would make sense to make it actually do less damage outside of range, instead of do less damage by chance unless it accidentally does full damage in which case OOPS LOL!#!

I am just going to say, I honestly find hotwires having acceptably high tier weaponry and the only absolutely necesary role in the game of healing, is the problem, and the reason why 70% of the game is made of that class. Want to prove that? First, take a game, and have 1 team unallowed to go engineers at all, and 1 team go nothing but engineers. If you HAVE to be fair about it, give 1 team 100% engineers and the other team 1 hotwire/techs and no other healers. I gurantee you the one with the engineers will win, not even technicians but engineers. Another test after that, is if you gave 1 team no repairman classes, after adding a "repairgun" secondary to the game, a weak repairgun ofc, and pit them against a team that is only repair classes with secondaries, and then bet your ass if that team without repairmen actually wins that time. Engineers would still be free healers, and hotwires would still have mines, c4, and the strongest repairgun in the game and I expect to STILL see them abundantly, but at least other classes can do 2 basic functions that hopefully 1 of which the hotwire can't do with the options of a carbine or heavy pistol or tiberium weapon.

I didn't know they had Renegade X in UT2003.... ...Or did you mean UT2007 A.K.A UT3, where RenX mod exists? Hey, you wana be a moderator, you pm kenz3001, you ask to be one, then you can edit all the obvious mistypes i make when I am deliriously sick all you want. But in all seriousness, yes ofc lol. Also in seriousness, I will ask Kenz3001 where he got his copy of the UT2007 map of Canyon, and if the same place he got his would provide a copy of Scorpion Hunters.

Much appreciated, thanks for your quick response, Kenz! Please tell me its... a subforum... to the feedback forum? Lol.

I was going to do the same thing the week after Beta 4 although I feel now is more appropriate. I actually typed it but the forum ate my post. I also have a limit of 6 suggestions. Anyway, this is basic TF2 keep-change style of balance poll. This works in practice and is also pretty fun. I appreciate this being made and I at least suspect Rypel is interested if not appreciative in it.

Mcfarland nor Rocket Soldier, are as strong as heavy pistol right now against vehicles. Let that sink in. Honestly, 1 clip takes 9% off a med tank, in 5 seconds. In that regard, if not nerfed, its name should be changed to the anti-armor handgun so that is much more clear, nobody chooses it over the carbine currently despite it's very different and effective role. Well, McFarland is still not as strong as officer and shotgunner, so still. More situational, sure. His projectile also has too much range for sure, and is too fast to dodge.

1) Officer Nerf (total damage and damage-rate against infantry over range, such that it keeps damage but hits less bullets the farther away infantry are and doesn't have enough damage per clip to kill a whole arty) 2) Silo Nerf (1 credit instead of 2) 3) Repair/Damage Credit Nerf (30% decrease sounds like a good start, especially for building damage/repair. Infantry damage/repair actually should be increased a bit) 4) Shotgun Nerf (stronger than McFarland's, actually the shotgun should be more like McFarlands as far as spread and range or possibly even less range) 5) Sidearm Nerf (pretty good sidearms per cost, actual classes with that cost aren't as good) 6) Stealth Tank Buff (first, adjust it's missiles to fire really close to the same angle instead of so spread in direction, then buff the damage 10% if nothing else than to just heavy armor) 7) Airdrop Nerf (either higher cost and/or cooldown, or as suggested by XDErrorXD, accumulatively add the cost of last vehicle, to next vehicle, and that vehicle's total to the next vehicle, or some other slowly increasing cost mechanism) 8) Grenadier Nerf (slight damage decrease, perhaps less ammo per clip) 9) Bar/HoN Buff (Apply whatever airdrop change to Bar/HoN, infantry should be as accessible, else Nod is in a worse spot. Note, it should still be costlier if so, or accumulatively costlier over time) 10) Ramjet Buff (against light armor, it received too many nerfs at once last patch, it is still sort of good against light armor and anti air but it could be better, making it a "good counter" without making it a "hard counter")

I like it more now than I ever have, and have never had a problem with the atmosphere as far as visibility, unlike old Renegade this has the visibility of a modern shooter which iirc was the goal... ...however, in hindsight, now that I think of it, Mesa would probably benefit from having 3 vehicle paths, considering it is one map that has the most advantages to infantry in vehicle areas, as the cave has tons of rocks and cover as well as ramps up and down that vehicles don't have, and the side paths have tons of rocks and towers and knooks and crannys. If you want the Silo to be protected from vehicles, do it artificially with rocks or fencing. Just stick it on the side the harvesters aren't on, and stick a perimeter of debris preventing vehicles of having line of sight to the silo mct. Infantry can easily still reach it either walking the outside edge from base, or running from the cave bridge to the silo.

Now this also isn't a bad idea that for some reason I nor anyone else thought of. So, basically, after a factory is down, their price is increased by double, and every individual that buys a vehicle has a personal cost increase of 50% for their next one. That way it serverely cripples one person funding his team with vehicles from his bottomless credit pool, as well as each vehicle being incredibly important but not ENTIRELY irreplaceable. Matter of fact, this exponentially increases the "loss" of a factory over time, making it virtually a "total loss" in only a few purchases. Just to make it fair to purchase multiple humvees over 1 larger vehicle, maybe it should instead add the cost of your last vehicle, to your next vehicle, accumulatively. Hell, that would be a substancial nerf, in a very good place between "too lenient" and "instant total loss".

It needs a much smaller clip. That is what melts light armor, the continuous nonstop damage without breaks. Besides that, as long as it has a percentage of miss per range, it would be fine. Then it could kill at barreltap or arms reach in 1 second, but at the shotgunners max range it would start to do inconsistent damage to infantry as an occasional bullet hits it. It would still hit vehicles with their large hitbox, which is why it needs less ammo, or as you suggested less damage per bullet and more rate of fire, so a full clip does not finish an artillery from full health to dead. Oh, and McFarland is another perfect example of utility. He takes 8 shots to kill someone over the course of 10+ seconds, but he can do it from complete cover. His shotgun can 2-3 hit kill someone, but an actual shotgun can 1-2 hit kill, and as I found out against a really good player, a shotgun 1 hit death is a very real threat as a mcfarland. One of those WarX guys made me have to never engage close range with them because it was instant death against them in 1 shot most of the time, and 2 shots if not. Chem trooper is more than a suitable substitute for Nod. It melts infantry even faster and is immune to tiberium, just not good against tanks compared to officer.

They have a SDK out now. Basically, anyone can create a map, but the few Totem Arts staff aren't interested in the numerous map ideas out there. Just to give you an idea, City_Flying would come much farther ahead in priority, and as in large demand as it is we still don't have City_Flying. However, if you can manage to use the documentation and how-to's to make a map in UDK, you can try to port what you can from UT2007, from what I understand you can port the map but it will only be a frame you ultimately have to delete upon finishing the map. Look at Youtube for Kenz3001 developing Canyon, he has a full series. He does the same thing, ports the UT2007 mod map, then has to rebuild ontop of the old frame, then delete the old frame when he has the map entirely built again. It didn't look TOO hard, just time consuming, like 3 hours a day for 30 days. Doesn't have to be 30 consecutive days ofc, but if you work every other day, it will take 2 months roughly to build a map like this.

I agree that the rocket soldiers are one of the most necessary balancing units in the game. They aren't real good at infantry, yet they offer a cheap always available option to specifically counter armor, and combined with a heavy pistol outright counter it even in extreme adversity. That is the kind of unit traits we need. Honestly, if the officer was as fundamental anti-infantry and medium range light armor, it would be good. A spread increase, clip reduction, and bit of recoil, would do wonders in that regard. Then the officer would get nerfs where needed, longrange infantry melting and light armor melting. It doesn't need to kill artillery in 1 clip, and it doesn't need to kill infantry as fast unless shotgun range in which case it really only hurts the shotgunners so who cares? I personally don't sympathize with shotguns in this game.

Yes silo income decrease will be part of it aswell. I love you. No homo. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

This sounds interesting. Can you go into some more details? Some elitist, I think either HaTe or Yosh, mentioned wanting passive credits reduced more than active ones, like combat related ones. On that note, damaging/repairing buildings is a huge income and is welcomed to be part of the reduction in my opinion. But it WOULD be nice if the silos granted 1 credit tick. That... will be changed, right?

Well, I agree with you. That is why, they should be purchaseable for an amount dictated by the economy to be "unsustainable". The pain everyone has for airdrops, isn't airdrops. It's eco allowing for airdrops being neverending. The idea is good, and even the player numbers show that, because prior to beta 4 an entire server would unpopulate every time a structure was lost because you might as well end the game that very moment, except it doesn't end for another 20 minutes of torture that most people realize they don't have to sit through. Even if airdrops were removed as well as infantry purchases when structures were destroyed, would you see playercount being higher? Would you honestly back the economy being "okay"? "Yeah, it is perfectly fine to make 1000 credits every 3 minutes". The game is less broken now sadly, and ignoring real issue for memories of nostalgia, isn't going to help. If anything, airdrops have done 1 good thing: Showed us that we could honest double the cost of every tank in the game and it wouldn't change their use, and/or we could half the economy and it wouldn't break the game. First lets try to get some balance patching going. Then lets see if i can motivate myself to work on a VP system. If they are interested in balance patching, the likely next step is just rebalancing airdrops on the opposite end of the scale, with 3x cost and 9 minute cooldowns. That means, if a building is destroyed early in a AOW game, you get 3 tanks for 7200 credits across 27 minutes of the game? I agree with that next step personally, people should see the two ends of the candle before they decide the entire system is bad. I think people would like harsher balance airdrops more than the softer balanced ones we have now.