Nod Obelisk Alt Fire Mode for Infantry

[Mystic~]

I've been thinking of a way to make the Obelisk fairer compared to the AGT. The AGT has 4 gun turrets that make light work of most infantry and a missile launcher for tanks, so Nod can seldom rush a base unless it's out of the way like the bridge on Gold Rush or map without advanced defences. GDI however will lose 1-2 players at most to ob hits whilst running past a charging obelisk and this sort of rush works 50% of the time on maps like Field/Field X, Daybreak, maybe some other maps with base defences I can't think of right now. 

Proposal: Long charge for tanks, shorter charge for infantry.

I don't know how to code/programme games, but I bet someone knows how to do this if it gets traction.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Mystic~
Correcting title to correct spelling

[Tytonium]

Maybe you could make an obelisk attack on infantry do area of effect damage. This would make rushes straight into a base with an obelisk less viable, while also still allowing hotty sneaks.

[Demigan]

Copy one of the few intelligent designs from Tib Wars: when engaging infantry it fires along a horizontal line, damaging and killing anyone and anything in its path.

 

Also arent the NOD turrets supposed to compensate for this? Change their shell AOE size and proclaim they are HE and they should do a good job right? Maybe let the aim near the feet so a miss wont negate all the damage.

[Mystic~]

Some Nod gun turrets are more useful than others depending on map, if they survive, take Lakeside they make quite a bit of difference, but on Field they don't mean all that much, they hinder sneaking. It's also true that Nod can also outrun the auto turrets only taking a bit of damage if they're moving between different cover. An instant kill-ZAP to an infantry from a modified Obelisk might be too precise or harsh, but something akin to being laser burned like the smaller lasers from Tib-Sun or some sort of sweep effect could be good.

Conversation sort of reminds me of this from Mass Effect.
 

 

[JoeBrogan7]

How about make the ob shot "jump" through 3 or 4 infantry units if they are in close proximity to each other. Direct hit = 100% damage, first jump 75% damage, 2nd jump 50% damage and third jump 25% damage.

Sort of unrelated but I'd like to see LCGs be able to charge the obelisk for a more powerful shot, akin to how Tesla Troopers can charge a Tesla Coil in RA2. 

[Luhrian]

19 hours ago, Tytonium said:

Maybe you could make an obelisk attack on infantry do area of effect damage. This would make rushes straight into a base with an obelisk less viable, while also still allowing hotty sneaks.

Similar to the Obelisk in C&C 3 Tiberium Wars

[Mystic~]

Shooting in an arch or line would be good, even against tanks, the front one takes the most damage, but subsequent vehicles also take some damage, you can imagine how this would work on a map like Under being tank pushed by several mammoth tanks. If striking infantry groups, the one(s) hit directly turn into red ash if too closely grouped and maybe others take fire damage, so that it's no longer pin-point killing just one person with each long charge. One of the reasons I mentioned this topic is I often also see the Ob shoot a random infantry character like an engineer rather than focusing priority on heavy tank armour, and these lost shots are going to be what determine whether or not the attack can be successfully defended. I'm not so keen on the idea of jumping laser prism tank like effect for Tiberium Universes.

[Tommy]

Or maybe just make the Obelisk like the one from original Renegade, which had splash damage and wouldn't just damage a single target

Edited April 18, 2020 by Cynthia

[Mystic~]

Area splash damage might be beneficial anyway, but the issue with only adding this, is there are times where the Obelisk will waste time shooting an irrelevant infantry character rather than focusing down the main tanks, and wasting an entire ob shot for next to nothing when Nod against an incoming tank rush is a really big issue. This was why I was thinking some sort of alt quick fire in addition to the main beam, maybe not an instant kill for a levelled infantry character, this would be sort of similar to the four AGT cannons.

[RypeL]

The Ob Prioritizes things it can kill in the next shot. That’s why it will sometimes pick an infantry over a healthy tank. This also means that it will kill off a damaged tank in a rush more often then wasting the shot on a healthy mammoth. So there are pros and cons to this. I’m pretty much the only one ever working on the Obelisk/defenses code and I don’t know how the orig Ob picked targets so I made my own decisions and the thinking was that going for a less healthy target produces situations where it’s beneficial for the defenders and sometimes situations where it can go against them. In the end I hoped it balances itself out and also for the experienced RenX player it might be something they can take strategic advantage of. I had to tell it how to prioritize targets somehow and that’s what I came up with. Prolly surely not perfect but on the other hand probably every decision the ob can make can have advantages and disadvantages to either attackers or defenders. If you wanna propose changes go ahead, though as I think I finally retired for good with no chance of another comeback, you’d have a hard time finding a active dev willing and skilled/experienced enough for picking it up.

[Guest Once Upon the time]

What some should consider (not easy to get, but mappers and devs know it) is:
Rate of fire per minute and damage per minute (AGT vs Obi)
In the case of a map, the Obi also had a greater range than the AGT (Paradise).
A well organized rush should also be able to overcome the opponent's defense, then you had a good team play.
I'm not sure now whether the mappers can even adjust the ranges on the maps, the pros have to answer.

[Mystic~]

That's some quite useful information to know, so thanks for sharing, I didn't know the ob targeting gave priority to weakened units. I have come up with some suggestions, and so have a few other people, like the idea of area damage or a sweeping strike, or my own first suggestion which was a shorter charge time for an infantry unit. You're right, I don't know who could code or programme the Oberlisk now, we never really got a detailed reason why you threw in the towel, although I know you weren't happy about something, but I'll respect your decision to take leave or walk away or whatever you had in mind. 

I thought being able to apply maximum damage might be more useful for a team and best value for each shot fired, although maybe not always, however when I think about how I play tactically against other tanks, I most often will try and pick off the one with the least health also so the opposition team loses the ability to maximise its own fire power in any given moment. It was playing Field-X and Field that made me think that the ob sometimes striking infantry players first was really unhelpful when there's a whole column of tanks that need taking down first. With many damaged tanks, it's often easier for mixed infantry or tanks to finish them off than for another ob strike on the same vehicle than to take a full health tank that's closed the distance and out of firing range. I don't programme, so I have no idea how to apply such logic, I don't remember or know how the old ob worked either.

Another point was that infantry can stream into a Nod base with or without smoke, but Nod can't do the same to GDI easily due to the several different responsive mounted cannons and so the proposed idea was infantry get shot with a quicker charge and less power behind the shot - which is surely overkill for killing one infantry... a sweeping shot could also damage or wound multiple infantry in one shot, but I appreciate it's a lot of work for someone and challenging to create.

I'm very happy you saw the thread and responded tho, didn't realise it was your job before.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Mystic~

[RypeL]

On 4/19/2020 at 2:07 PM, Guest Once Upon the time said:

I'm not sure now whether the mappers can even adjust the ranges on the maps, the pros have to answer.

They can. Those are map specific settings for both AGT and Ob.

[Guest Once Upon the time]

Rypel thx, for the Info. I wasn't sure anymore.

 

[Harvester]

On 4/5/2020 at 11:43 PM, Demigan said:

 intelligent designs from Tib Wars: when engaging infantry it fires along a horizontal line,

yes! that´s great way of area damage.