Renegade Maps For OpenRA

[RadicalEdward2]

A while back (maybe two years ago), I posted some recreations of maps from Renegade for Red Alert. I recently discovered the magic of the Tiberium Dawn OpenRA map editor and came up with a new idea for a personal project for myself.

Now that I have access to a map editor for Tiberium Dawn, I'm going to try to recreate maps from Renegade in OpenRA (Tiberium Dawn) to see how they would play if they were in the original C&C. So far, I've only made Walls and it actually plays relatively close to how it does in Renegade and Renegade X.

I originally also had Field done (tunnels, the old barn, everything) but, the file and it's backup managed to delete itself before I could upload it. Eventually, I'll try to make it again but, for now, here's a link for Walls.

Walls

Also, here's a screenshot of a Flame Tank rush.

NOTE: Had to make some hotfixes for Walls because the AI blocks its own main gate and traps itself. So I had to widen the gateways.

Please download the latest version HERE

Edited February 6, 2017 by RadicalEdward2
Hotfix

[RadicalEdward2]

Had to make some hotfixes for Walls because the AI blocks its own main gate and traps itself. So I had to widen the gateways.

Please download the latest version HERE

Sorry about the double post but, it was an important hotfix.

Edited February 6, 2017 by RadicalEdward2
4th Hotfix's the charm

[RadicalEdward2]

No one's really commented yet but, here's Under.

I put all of the notes I have for it on the download page which you can find HERE

I don't know if anyone's really checking out this post but, apparently people are downloading the maps.

I'm going to possibly work on Field next or I might try making some of the community-made RenX maps at some point.

[IllumZar]

The maps look really good! Great job!

I'll try them out once I reinstalled OpenRA

 

[RadicalEdward2]

4 hours ago, IllumZar said:

The maps look really good! Great job!

I'll try them out once I reinstalled OpenRA

 

Thanks. Glad to hear! Let me know what you think once you've played them.

I'm also remaking Tiber River Valley from Tiberium Wars. I know there's some stigma towards that particular installment to the series but, I just love the idea of exploring where everything (Tiberium-related) started since it never was actually visited in-game outside of being mentioned once or twice in previous games.

I'm trying to make an almost carbon copy of it's layout (down the placement of trees and buildings) to see what the area might have looked like 60-70 years ago (Tiberium Wars takes place in 2047 and I never intend on playing Twilight). I've even watched a few playthroughs with OpenRA open on the side to make sure everything matches up.

Eventually once I run out of Renegade maps to make, I might try remaking Red Alert 2 and Renegade X maps and maybe even some re-imaginings of Tiberian Sun maps (in a style similar to the Tiber map).

[Sire]

The recreations look good! However, one major problem I see when making faithful recreations is that while the map design will work well for Renegade X, they will not really work for C&C play. I say this mostly coming from the Red Alert side of OpenRA and watching their streams (and participating in their current ongoing map design contest, it ends on the 28th of February).

So, I would suggest making two separate versions of the maps. The first is the faithful recreation and the second is the "inspirational" map that changes things around to better suit RTS gameplay. As I said, recreation wise the maps are outstanding, but the RTS gameplay (especially competitive) will suffer. Casual play "mimicking" Renegade X with human players may be enjoyable as well as roleplay against the AI, but that is the extent I see of these maps in their current form.

For an OpenRA version, I see the limited Tiberian Fields and the abundance of chokepoints being problematic. From looking at the official map pools, OpenRA maps favor more open maps as well has having several Tiberian fields (say 2-3 starting fields with 2-3 to expand to with a MCV.) This is much different to the more linear and "one base" style of Renegade X. For additional inspiration, look at Aggressive Tendencies and Lost Souls, two separate 1v1 maps in the C&C mod. Alternatively, you can look at Red Alert's style of mapping such as Desert Rats, Northwest Passage, and Side Step. Just keep in mind the difference in gameplay between the two (Red Alert has the classic "build more production to speed up the time" while Command and Conquer uses the more modern "different structures have different queues.")

* * * * *

As for Walls, I would suggest...

1. Enlarge the map (say 96x64)
2. Add the "four cliff passages" as well as the top and bottom entrances. I know classic C&C has no real verticality, but it can work to expanding the "cliff area." The four side passages can be relatively narrow (say 3-4 tiles), but make the north and south ones rather wide for vehicle access (at least 5-8).
3. Maybe replace the middle Oil Derrick with a Blue Tiberian Blossom to give player something to fight over. (Say a meteor hit the original spot, living debris and Blue Tiberian there.)
4. If the map is big enough on the "y" axis, add an expansion spot (Tiberian Field with a Blossom Tree) where the northern and southern crate would spawn.
5. If the field is too big on the "x" axis, consider adding a "Fortress" section behind the main "Walls" base, perhaps adding Concrete Walls and a safe expansion spot. You can put the "safe Oil Derrick" back here as well.

General: As a rule of thumb, if you want to have armies move through a location, try to make the path rather wide (8-12 tiles). Narrow paths such as bridges and fords are more suited for infantry and light vehicle play instead of maneuvering large armies. In addition, narrow paths promote static play by relying heavily on base defenses and MLRS / Artillery to break stalemates. (Sounds familiar to Renegade X's problems, eh?)

* * * * *

As for Under, I would suggest...

1. Add at least one Tiberian Field near the starting area. They can be on the left or right of the starting locations or be above them.
2. Carve away at that massive northern mountain to make room for an expansion area (Tiberian Field + Base Building Space). Do so for both sides.
3. Make some space for an expansion area at the southwest and southeast areas. This is where the long sneaking route is at.
4. Move the "Bio Lab Cliff" one or two tiles down. It would be nice for infantry and small squads to be able to walk around it instead of being completely blocked.
5. Add in a small entrance (2-3 Tiles) area to the middle hill on both sides instead of having to go all the way up. The "first lone tree on the left" is a good place to start.
6. Double check the main vehicle path to the base if it is 8-12 tiles wide so armies can maneuver around. Remove the rocks and debris that block movement, decorative stuff is fine.
7. Double check the "tunnels" and side paths if they are 3-4 tiles wide for small squads. Normally such a small route from be frowned upon, but due to the nature of the map, I'll let it pass.
8. If you are daring, make an alternative vehicle path on the north end of the map so the northern expansions can attack each other. I know doing this will no longer make "Under Under," but it may improve the RTS gameplay due to more options.

* * * * *

...And there's my feedback after looking at your maps in the map editor. I'll give them a proper play soon and come back to report on that.

[RadicalEdward2]

I saw you mentioned a map competition, could you send me a link for that?

I just read through your notes, I think making two versions would be a pretty good idea. My lost Field map faithful and even included the concrete walls.

Walls was really my first try but, I finished Field later on (before losing the file) so I made Walls as literal as possible with its scaling like the old Renegade trailer where it zoomed in on the image of the GDI base to show how it would look in-game.

From a gameplay standpoint, I would admit Walls scale in Dawn would be an absolute nightmare so I might make a second larger version.

As for Under, I think it's okay in terms of what I could accomplish with the older game's lack of tunnels but, I could try making a version without the alternate path.

I intentionally made the tunnels as narrow as possible because I didn't want the action to stray away from the center field. So I kept the tunnels just narrow enough to fit vehicles but, at the same time made it cramp enough to that anyone trying to move a rush-sized force through it look absolutely insane if it consisted of anything other than infantry.

I learned this from my Field map where GDI tried to do B-lines through the immediate connecting tunnel with Mammoth herds even with the one or two rocks I placed to deter them.

I wanted to make the paths as narrow as 1x1 but, it led to some pathfinding trouble for the AI so I scrapped that idea early on.

Also, funny thing you mentioned the small starter Tiberium fields for the start area. There actually was in the iteration before I published the version on the site (lol)! I removed it because I had a was afraid people would give me backlash for "babying" the starting area with some immediate access to resources before depending on center field. In fact, those large debris patches next to the starting points was where both of the starting Tiberium used to be.

I saw that you mentioned adding a Blue Tiberium field to the cliff where I put the little house but, I actually had that in the original version of the map I made for the original Red Alert (not OpenRA) in the form of a gem field. I decided against including it in the posted version because I felt it was have taken away strategic value from the main Tiberium field. Plus, I wanted to emulate the frustration of defending Harvesters because I felt that was part of what made Under interesting.

As for all the other notes you made, I already saved them in a notepad file for quick reference since you're literally the first one to give me in-depth feedback and I plan on reading through whatever I didn't mention later (:

[Sire]

OpenRA Forums: http://www.sleipnirstuff.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=80 (It is actually a subset of a another major forum, but it sees enough activity to warrent checking every other day or so.)

Map Design Contest - Rules: http://www.sleipnirstuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19910 (Maps made before the contest started [Jan 1, 2017] cannot be submitted. In more broader terms, I feel that any map already uploaded to the Map Center may not be eligible, but feel free to ask the organizer if you can submit yours. As a bonus tip, most maps are Red Alert related, so if you plan on making C&C maps, you will have way less competition.)

Map Design Contest - Entries: http://www.sleipnirstuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19911 (These are all the maps that have been submitted to the contest thus far. You do not submit maps here, you do it through PMs on their message boards. If you want to see what my maps are like, I can send you a PM. Just keep in mind I submitted some of mine to the contest and I would prefer if they remained Anonymous.)

* * * * * Under * * * * *

1: I did not mention adding a blue Tib field for Under, that was for Walls (and it's Oil Derrick). I just suggested adding a small passageway there so units do not have to go all the way up to the silo. (Think the "center hill infantry entrance" for Renegade X. I'm know there is one on GDI's side, surely there must be one for Nod."

2: The small tunnel paths (Base to Center Tunnels, Long Sneaking Tunnels) are fine, but they will need to be expanded slightly if they are kept in. Really narrow paths should be only 2-4 tiles wide. As for an updated suggestion, you can keep the initial base to center tunnels small as they are (around 2 tiles). I would expand the "Road Tunnel" a little more. Also, get rid of the "Village Cliff" against the present 2 southern houses and expand that area slightly. Transform it into a "mini-cave arena" with perhaps some spare rocks here and there as decoration and to obstruct some movement.

2A. Narrow paths are fine in C&C as they do tend to promote rush tactics or small squad tactics instead of maneuvering the main army (which will happen on the field). However, long 1 or 2 tile passages are far too narrow for RTS gameplay. Imagine fighting battles only on a long bridge or a long ford in Red Alert, but with Tiberian Dawn units, this is essentially what these narrow passages promote. Remember, main armies won't be using the side passages, even if they are 4 tiles wide. Armies will use 8+ tile battlegrounds to maneuver around, 4 tiles is too narrow for a main army.

2B. As for your Field test, the narrow Base to Base may be problematic. I can only imagine the map, but Advance Base Defense and MRLS & Artillery could easily shell the opposite base, either while in the safety of their own or using the tunnels. Dealing with a Mammoth Rush through the tunnels is likely due to how close the two bases are to each other (and dealing with the AI). Two solutions I have is to expand the tunnel area (which while a fun concept, may not actually play well) or move the bases further back from the tunnels. The new space will have to be filled with something (perhaps a river on each side that "disappears" into the "tunnel mountain" which eventually form the "mountain waterfall?")

* * * * * General * * * * *

Well, the links to the OpenRA forums are at the top of this post. Best of luck if you decide to participate in the Map Contest!

Just remember the guidelines for passages. 2-4 is narrow and for small skirmishes, such as infantry and light vehicles (and occasionally rushes). 8-12 (or higher) is meant for main armies. Also remember that OpenRA's Tiberian Dawn is more of a Tank Game (multiple production queues promote vehicle usage) while Red Alert focuses more on Infantry. So, in TD maps, you will want more space to maneuver all of those vehicles around.

Here's a link to an older Tiberian Dawn video with commentary by SoScared (an OpenRA streamer). [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX3O9MKOjU4]  This is to give you an idea of some competitive play. Most streamers (that I know of) are mostly on the Red Alert side of things, so finding Tiberian Dawn videos is a little more difficult (Dune 2000 more so).

 

 

[RadicalEdward2]

I know I've been gone for a while but, in my absence, I've made over 20 maps.

Here's some of the Renegade maps I remade and an original one I made as well.

Under (classic)

It's essentially Under based on a mix between the layout from the original version and the X version. Helipads are disabled by default to give it a level of authenticity. The Renegade X version still needs some work cause the Bio Lab is kind of broken (visceroids won't spawn properly). I added starting area Tiberium as suggested earlier.

Field

I added Tiberium patches to the starting areas to make the initial productions less sluggish. It's based more on the original than the newer versions with the only really big differences being the lake and the tunnels. The lake introduced in the X version looked nice so I tried adding it to break the monotony of endless cliffs. The tunnels are a bit of a mix between the original and the ones from an earlier build of X.

I put Oil Derricks where the Silo would be and even brought back the barn.

Whiteout

I did it. I made Whiteout. Added a bunch of outside area details and even added the Comm.Center from the newer version. I couldn't include the tunnels because... it's not possible to implement them. It was easier with Under because the locations of the tunnels didn't overlap with terrain that's crossed above ground. I also made a 2v2 version.

Fields of Green

I won the Free-for-All category with this one. It's basically a sadistic version of All That Glitters from Red Alert. Instead of all the ground being destructible cash, it gives you space cancer.

Badme

I made Badme to cater to the part of the fandom that enjoyed the political and world-building aspects of the Tiberium universe. I did this by recreating the actual real-world town of Badme which became the subject of a land-dispute between Ethiopia and Eritrea in 1993 and led to a war in 1998. I used this real-world history to my advantage because it turns out that Eritrea (the country that Badme is attached to) is under the control of the GDI while all of the surrounding countries (Ethiopia included) are actually NOD-occupied. I always found maps that tried to make parallels to real-world events interesting (like the Berlin Wall in City Under Siege from Red Alert 2 ).

I definitely had more fun making this map than any of my previous ones because I actually went through the effort of replicating Badme and the region its located in using Google Satellite images. It's not 100% accurate but, it's close enough with the assets I had to work with. The parallels to real-world events add a layer of immersion to the map. I'm planning on making more maps like this in the future

Let me know what you guys think!

 

Edited May 9, 2017 by RadicalEdward2
Resized images