plumbumber Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Hi everyone, i just wanted to give my opinion about the whole concept of vehicle drop. I personally think getting a timer on vehicle purchase might slow a team down but ussually both teams still have a lot of vehicles when their WF/strip is down, this completely removes the original advantage of destroying the strip or wf and kinda ruins this aspect of the gameplay wich in my opinion is a big aspect of the game. in old ren , and yes i know things changed, u had to steal your vehicles or get them from crates, no airdrops. please concider removing vehicle drop, i really think we should keep the original renegade feeling and enhance it not completely change the game. greetz plum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axesor Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 The first thing I want to say is, that i disagree with this i really think we should keep the original renegade feeling and enhance it not completely change the game.greetz If you want it so much, you can go play C&C:Renegade. Imo this game is kind of inovation and modernization of old game and have to be bit unique and have to be better in any aspect to satisfy the modern player and get rid of EA. Back to vehicle drop. I agree that the destroyed WF/Strip, does not make a big difference. Handicaped team plays more defensive and collect vehicles. Mainly GDI has a big defensive potentional unlike the Nod that really can't defend the base with these highly specialised vehicles. My opinion on this was always the same: If team loses WF/AS, so can buy buggy's/humvee's and APC's and chinok only. Both teams got pretty good anti-air, anti-vehicle infantry and these vehicles can do some damage too + your team still woud be able to do rushes with these vehicles. But these vehicles also can't completely rekt opp team, which has the WF/AS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtractor Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 what ever is the airdrop the important imo is not to make them often delivery..air drop is kind of reinforcement that take time to come in ..there shouldnt be no back to back delivery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salarite Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Keep these posts coming! If there is enough of us a change might happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxes Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 The vehicle limit also must be limited down to 3 and also have a x3 increase in price. I can imagine a team turtling with 12 APCs, and that will keep things frustrating for the other team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoundShades Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 I personally think the Harvester should be bound to the "don't respawn for airdrop timer" for it. Besides that, the 3 variables that should limit it, is the time for the drop, the time between drops, and the price. I don't think they should remove stronger vehicles, unless at least they leave light/med tanks. The point of airdrop was making games not a very established loss if a factory is lost. If apc/buggy is literally all that is allowed, there is no way vehicles will kill a building, which is the only threat of the vehicle factory and 75% of the threat of a team. If you kill an enemy's HoN/Bar, the benefit is the t2 repairgun loss, which let's a team attack but the vehicles/buildings not survive enemy attack as well, you may or may not live without it and you can win without it, but with no vehicles you may live without it but you can nearly never win without it. The airdrops can increase in starting price, 2.5x or 3x. The airdrops could also increase in price per use, x2 per vehicle or add-last-price to next vehicle. So 1 med tank, 1600, 2 med tank 3200. Or, 1 humvee, 700, next med, 2300. They can increase in time between drop allowance. Same as above, you can add 4 minutes to each tank, 10 to 14 to 18 to 22. They can even increase/configurable times between each player's drop. Right now it's 30 seconds between? It can be 2 minutes, which makes 8 tanks require 16 minutes to amass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XD_ERROR_XD Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 viewtopic.php?f=169&t=75114 viewtopic.php?f=13&t=75414 I'll drop those two links here, in case of more support is needed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoundShades Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 The same people say the same thing in those links. If it's redundant, it's a vocal minority. The weapons factory and airstrip are supposed to kill a team more than they do now. That is why I suggest increasing penalties per use. Then again, it may even be ok to lessen vehicles to just apc/med/light, if vehicle shell splash range and damage against infantry were reduced. It takes 3 shells near a player to kill them in RenX, and 6 in Old, and 6 shells at edge of splash in RenX and 15 in Old, and a headshot, well that always killed in old ren, but the shells are way more apt to do so in RenX so the other points are adamantly important. If not also making headshots less multiplied as to only do 200 infantry damage, which mind you is just about a death sentence to an infantry anyway but at least is "Balanced". The med/light is the basic requirement of any team though. Not having it makes a win entirely a fumble on the enemy behalf, as it takes 4 tanks to run a field against 7 infantry, no way a score gap can be avoided using only infy vs tanks, and there is no excuse the other half of the majority cant at least defend infantry paths. Otherwise, gameplaywise, it is like if the basic engineer was a 125 unit and losing bar/hon meant it was disabled. Then game over because you cannot survive without any repair at all, let alone even attack without a field repair. Obviously this was different in APB, but infantry was more viable even in APB than in RenX and basic infantry was very good and vehicles werent prolific in field and either one of the structures could win you the game without the other. Not to mention, in APB, the tank splash was MUCH LESS LETHAL as well. One last point. A purchase system mutator that makes only the basic tank purchaseable after a building loss, is easier than heck. I can make one now if you like, so you can test on a server before you demand it outright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axesor Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 One last point. A purchase system mutator that makes only the basic tank purchaseable after a building loss, is easier than heck. I can make one now if you like, so you can test on a server before you demand it outright. No way. You can't compare light tank with medium tank. Medium tank is universal tank for any situation. And light tank.. well... It's something like... what is it for? Maybe support unit and finisher if opp is running with low health. You defenitely won't destroy building with it. If you make med's purchaseable, I want flame tank's then! The reason, why I want only Buggy/Humvee, APC, and Chinok purchaseable is, you can do decent damage with it. If opp team is completely useless and you lost your AS/ WF just becouse of one sneaky EKT-Recky, you can still win. Ofc you won't be able to destroy building with it, but you can do engineer rushes in it, and ion/nuke spamming with it's cover, or Rocket soldier rushes. But it's not OP, so if your team won't grow up with help of mystical power, you don't deserve to win and shouldnt be able to defend the base, just like it is now. Opp team buys 4 mammys, 2 meds, 4 mrls's and 2 APCs and defend the base to the end of round or just get tired and log out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XD_ERROR_XD Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Higher splash damage is justified because infantry can now sprint, they're a bit more difficult to hit + nearly no damage is carried through materials anymore. Lowering splash damage would cause more issues than it would fix. And yeah, making vehicles more expensive with every purchase works. Combine it with other penalties however, and it would get too harsh. So, instead of decreasing splash damage or removing vehicles altogether, make shells carry a bit more damage through material and make them more expensive with every purchase, as suggested above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Arts Staff Handepsilon Posted August 17, 2015 Totem Arts Staff Share Posted August 17, 2015 No way. You can't compare light tank with medium tank. Medium tank is universal tank for any situation. And light tank.. well... It's something like... what is it for? Maybe support unit and finisher if opp is running with low health. You defenitely won't destroy building with it. If you make med's purchaseable, I want flame tank's then! The closest comparison to med is light tank. Light tank is Nod's main battle tank, weaker but more agile and harder to hit (if you play your environment right). Flame tank is a close combat vehicle that needs to catch the tank closely and in surprise. Also note that GDI and Nod have different playstyle and different specialty. GDI is a more simplified brute force while Nod requires tactical care with its' unique units having far different roles than others. So no wonder if Med tank is as 'Universal' as it can be. It's a GDI tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axesor Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Fairy tales. The fact of what Med. tank is able to do, is sufficient to understand that you can't compare Med.tank with LT. If you want add this mutator, I suggest that GDI will always -3 vehicle limit if WF is down, while Nod's vehicle limit stay same. Fact: Med. tank: +more overal damage, big explosion radius, more health, easy to repair (you can camp in safe of it's big body), it's fast (yes, it is) If you try, it's easy to dodge projectiles too. This is the reason, why Med is main battle tank of GDI. Light tank: +it's faster, finish off vehicle. -difficult to heal, low damage, small explosion radius This definitely has nothing to do with the definition of main battle vehicle of Nod. Flame tank: +same as med tank, bigger damage -shorter range Med vs ftank=1:1=longer range vs bigger damage. Main battle vehicles. But I still disagree with this mutator.There shouldn't be these tanks for those who lost AS/WF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoundShades Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Still only makes sense in practice. Just played a canyon game where Nod had Hon and GDI had WF, and Nod still just swarmed all over their HoN with laser chaingunners and ravs. Stalemate for like years, no amount of apcs and meds and ions could crack it. Vehicles don't stalemate it, lack of vehicles stalemate it. Besides, one change at a time. With building armor, it would be exponentially more cruel if a team didn't have some sort of vehicle that did some damage to a building. Also, with that mutator, I would suggest then if I could make MRLS/Arty, but we all know same arguement ensues... but that really begs the question then why not have ALL the vehicles instead of just the APC which is a throwaway of 3600 credits for 3 of them that can't even properly face off with a hunkered LCG/Patch/Gunner/2 SBH/PIC/Rail/Grenadier/heavypistol... And if you are taking the vehs to their base, you know they are going to have defender's advantage of hunkering... Last offer, is to allow Humvee/Arty/MRLS/Med/Light. This still at least disables special vehicles, the Mammy, Stank, and Flamer, although I still think a single flamer, stank, or mammy, is pretty important to deny a team use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axesor Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Let's put aside this problem for a moment. We will see if change is needed after building armor patch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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