Veteran System

[HaTe]

I highly recommend adding a Veteran System that rewards skilled players for their accomplishments per game. (Warning:) Long post incoming, but it is kept simple and organized for efficiency.

Introduction:

At the core this game is an FPS with RTS elements, but it feels as if the RTS part is flawed due to a one-size-fits-all economical structure that simply does not fit all. We can sit and argue about "pointsfix this" and "pointsfix that", but in the end it's the system that is flawed (and was in Renegade too), because players are not rewarded for their skill adequately. Say, for example, the Refinery is dead and you've just killed 5 players in a row in rapid succession (which takes skill). You get a total of 10% points and credits for the amount that the player spent on that character, for an absolute max total of 500, if all 5 characters were 1000 level characters (495 if we're being technical), and a minimum of 15 points and credits. That's fine and all, you get income for getting kills at a set specific amount. What is not acknowledged in this process, however, is that these were infantry kills and took a certain level of skill. Your income is not affected by the skill that it took to do this. I say it should. That's just one example and other accomplishments that take skill can be put into place of this example (such as vehicle kills, repairing, structure kills, etc), which we'll get a bit more into later.

What this proposed system would do is make skilled players get more reward for their efforts, and make a dead building not immediately mean game-over almost always. It would also help to end stalemates by giving the more skilled team the tools that they require to win. The most important thing this would do, however, is stop credits from being the only economical income granted in the game, which limits so much (and makes the points/credit calculations determine far too much). Skill should be rewarded more than it is.

The proposal:

A Veteran System that provides Skill Points (SP) for accomplishing specific tasks within a game.

For example:

For every 5 kills, 1 SP is rewarded.

For every 20 kills, an additional 1 SP is rewarded.

For every 3 vehicles killed (including harvester), 1 SP is rewarded.

For every 5 vehicles killed, an additional 1 SP is rewarded.

For every 6 mines (of any kind) that are disarmed, 1 SP is rewarded.

For every building repaired for 4 minutes, 1 SP is rewarded.

For every vehicle repaired for 3 minutes, 1 SP is rewarded.

For every 500 points earned, 1 SP is rewarded.

For every beacon/nuke disarmed, 1 SP is rewarded.

For every building kill, 3 SP are rewarded.

Assist SP*:

For every 3 vehicle assists, 1 SP is rewarded.

For every 5 infantry assists, 1 SP is rewarded.

For every 1 building assist, 1 SP is rewarded (since many players could potentially get this bonus from 1 building kill).

*Only given to any person who has damaged greater than or equal to 50% of the MAX health of the deceased unit (refilling/repairing can cause multiple assist points for one killed unit). The person that gets the final blow on the vehicle/infantry/building does NOT get an assist point, but gets the vehicle/infantry/building kill instead (which is worth slightly more). Assist points are NOT given for harvester kills (note that they are measured for the final hit, though).*

There would then be a new PT Icon called "Veteran Options" that has vehicles, weapons, and armor selections that can be purchased using the earned SP:

Weapons:

Basic infantry weapons = 1 SP

Tier 1 Weapons (top row of character list weapons) = 3 SP

Tier 2 Weapons (middle row of character list weapons) = 5 SP

Tier 3 Weapons (bottom row of character list weapons) = 7 SP

Vehicles:

Humvee/Buggy = 3 SP

MRLS/Arty = 5 SP

APC = 6 SP

Light Tank/Med = 8 SP

Flame Tank (Nod) = 8 SP

Stealth Tank (Nod) = 10 SP

Mammoth Tank (GDI) = 12 SP

Armor upgrades*:

Basic (25) armor upgrade = 2 SP

Medium (50) armor upgrade = 4 SP

Advanced (100) armor upgrade = 6 SP

*Max of 200 armor TOTAL*

(These would all have to be tested and edited according to balance trials, but this is a starting point).

Conclusion:

This Veteran System proposal would:

1. Provide incentive for doing tasks that reward skill.

2. Help to end stalemates by giving the more skilled team the better chance at winning.

3. Provide a player with access to using a dead structure's resources, given that they have individually earned it.

4. Add additional income to the not-so-one-size-fits-all credit system currently in place.

5. Makes it so that a player that has been in-game longer reaps more benefit than a player that has just joined and has been donated.

6. Rewards individual accomplishments.

There was/is a "similar" system added into by mods of Renegade into specific Renegade servers (ironically the only ones still actively alive), and it worked pretty well. This would be a more thorough system that is included into the PT and is laid out in full, though. Someone with UDK script experience or possibly a Dev would be able to add in such changes with no extreme difficulties.

Think of it like a career. Currently, you get slight pay raises for getting kills and such. However, you earn no bonuses or extras for specific individual accomplishments. This proposal would see to it that you not only still get that pay raise that was earned, but you also get those bonuses and extras that are deserved to you.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Guest

[RypeL]

I might start on such a system after B4. Its definatly on the radar.

[Tarvin]

It sounds interesting but it sounds like it could also penalize someone for staying behind out of the action to protect their base, which can be an entirely necessary but boring job. It also seems like it could encourage people to go out as individuals rather than as part of a coordinated team effort with everyone trying to up their own stats. Stats wise the base defenders would be sub-par players even though what they do is vital but if the rest of the team does their work the defenders may never see action or the opportunity to gain veterancy.

I've never played a mode like this myself but am just voicing concerns based on the ideas stated and not personal experience.

Another issue is that it might be exploited by those that already use things like aim-bots to increase their kills.

I was part of a Mobius raid on the Nod base in Field and EMPs were thrown down to cover us with the only issue being that we couldn't see what we were shooting at. Despite this we started dying one by one with headshots. I'd hate to think that cheaters like that could be rewarded through a system like this.

[HaTe]

It sounds interesting but it sounds like it could also penalize someone for staying behind out of the action to protect their base, which can be an entirely necessary but boring job. It also seems like it could encourage people to go out as individuals rather than as part of a coordinated team effort with everyone trying to up their own stats. Stats wise the base defenders would be sub-par players even though what they do is vital but if the rest of the team does their work the defenders may never see action or the opportunity to gain veterancy.

I've never played a mode like this myself but am just voicing concerns based on the ideas stated and not personal experience.

Another issue is that it might be exploited by those that already use things like aim-bots to increase their kills.

I was part of a Mobius raid on the Nod base in Field and EMPs were thrown down to cover us with the only issue being that we couldn't see what we were shooting at. Despite this we started dying one by one with headshots. I'd hate to think that cheaters like that could be rewarded through a system like this.

You would get SP for repairing buildings and vehicles. It is listed in the original post:

For every building repaired for 4 minutes, 1 SP is rewarded.

For every vehicle repaired for 3 minutes, 1 SP is rewarded.

If you're referring to camping the base, then you likely are not dying much and don't have a credit issue because of that (it also takes little to no skill to do, and skill points shouldn't be rewarded for such actions). Additionally, if it encourages non-camping behavior, then it is encouraging positive momentum, and that is a good thing for the game. If someone is cheating, credit issues likely aren't realistic for them and so this system wouldn't be used by them regardless. Cheaters get weeded out and kicked eventually, and this system will not help them cheat more effectively. To try and shun a gameplay idea because of cheaters having the ability to exploit it would be to not let the game advance in anyway forward.

[Tarvin]

I see your point there. If you are actively repairing buildings being destroyed then it would make defense better.

Also, if your main function is patrolling for SBH infiltrators and such you won't be dying as much and loosing credits. Valid points there. Honestly, I missed the part about repairing buildings.

As for worrying about cheaters exploiting it... I had a few bad experiences where the only explanation for how someone was doing is cheating. That might have caused me to be a bit jaded toward the idea.

After thinking about it further I'm hard pressed to find any specific issues I have problems with.

[HaTe]

All valid concerns had I not previously anticipated them and adapted the idea with them in mind

[Tarvin]

Touche

[SFJake]

I like the general idea.

I also think its a good idea to consider for getting weapons-vehicles when buildings are down for Marathon servers.

There were a few ideas thrown around for that, but I think this one would fit Marathon servers very well.

There could be room also for some more original upgrades with the SP system (such as regeneration, vehicle regeneration, carrying more ammo, whatever). Though I'd see people debating these.

I'd love this in Marathon servers. Whatever to bring some variety to them whilst helping comebacks and giving ways to get things you can't have anymore (besides hunting crates for 3 hours).

[HaTe]

There could be room also for some more original upgrades with the SP system (such as regeneration, vehicle regeneration, carrying more ammo, whatever). Though I'd see people debating these.

I originally considered adding those in, but decided to leave them out for the sole reason of competitive play. So those could be added into a server via mod, but at the core I believe that it should be simplified to just what I had originally posted.

I specifically like the ammo one for marathon servers, but in competitive play it would provide too much of an advantage.

[Tarvin]

Not sure if this issue was brought up but it's one I just now thought of. If multiple people are damaging a vehicle or character who gets credit for the kill or would everyone that participated get SP for the kill?

[HaTe]

Whoever gets the final kill blow would get the SP. I had thought of assist points being given to any teammate who had damaged the deceased unit in less than 5 seconds of its death, but I think that it would complicate it too much. Simple is smarter for these types of things I find, because players want to know exactly what they are getting rewarded for, and don't want to have to look it up to do so.

[Tarvin]

I think it would be best to give the reward for assists as well otherwise people will get annoyed at kill steals and go off trying to earn things on their own.

[HaTe]

I'd like to think people aren't that selfish and have the best hope for the team in mind rather than getting worked up over getting an additional SP. I suppose we disagree there, but it would be the developer's discretion nonetheless.

[yosh56]

Of course I approve, we've already had this 'exact' suggestion and conversation happen before =p

[HaTe]

I had mentioned this briefly a long time ago, but was unsure exactly what you were talking about. So I did a search and sure enough found what topic you were talking about (I've been away for several months).

The way most servers had/have a vet system set up in the original was that it would give a significant amount of VP to players for simple tasks (ie. disarming a mine got you 1, getting a kill got you somewhere around 3). And then there was different "levels" of the Vet system and upgrades that came with them (health increase, regen, extra weapon, cheaper costs, etc.). It essentially rewarded players that have been playing longer, almost entirely regarding the actual skill that they need to accomplish specific tasks. That's not necessarily bad and is still better than no vet system at all for a public server, but it has it's flaws in that it basically worked like a second credit system and rewarded the winning team. There were a few Vet Systems that rewarded repairing and whatnot, but for the most part it was the winning team that got the benefit (even though they already had the points and credits advantage).

This system will see that the most skilled team (rather, individuals on that team) get the Vet advantage, regardless if they're winning or losing. A team can be ahead in points and buildings destroyed because of better teamwork, but the more skilled team (individually) could still comeback with a Vet system and make a game out of it. For those games when your team simply isn't doing you any favors or helping out much - one skilled player can really make a difference, so long as he earns it.

That's the general idea behind the proposed system being different than the original one is/was (it's also going to be in the PT rather than a !buy command).

[yosh56]

I had mentioned this briefly a long time ago, but was unsure exactly what you were talking about. So I did a search and sure enough found what topic you were talking about (I've been away for several months).

The way most servers had/have a vet system set up in the original was that it would give a significant amount of VP to players for simple tasks (ie. disarming a mine got you 1, getting a kill got you somewhere around 3). And then there was different "levels" of the Vet system and upgrades that came with them (health increase, regen, extra weapon, cheaper costs, etc.). It essentially rewarded players that have been playing longer, almost entirely regarding the actual skill that they need to accomplish specific tasks. That's not necessarily bad and is still better than no vet system at all for a public server, but it has it's flaws in that it basically worked like a second credit system and rewarded the winning team. There were a few Vet Systems that rewarded repairing and whatnot, but for the most part it was the winning team that got the benefit (even though they already had the points and credits advantage).

This system will see that the most skilled team (rather, individuals on that team) get the Vet advantage, regardless if they're winning or losing. A team can be ahead in points and buildings destroyed because of better teamwork, but the more skilled team (individually) could still comeback with a Vet system and make a game out of it. For those games when your team simply isn't doing you any favors or helping out much - one skilled player can really make a difference, so long as he earns it.

That's the general idea behind the proposed system being different than the original one is/was (it's also going to be in the PT rather than a !buy command).

I talk about he vet system in that topic, but I don't use it like it was implemented on servers in OldRen. I was talking about re-evaluating it and turning it into a second form of currency that was only attainable by actually DOING things. Think I may have even mentioned that it should be the currency specifically used for items as opposed to credits, as nobody in their right mind deserves to use a Carbine as an Engi unless they've been putting in work to do so. (So much opinion at the end there, but rage opinion)

[HaTe]

Wasn't addressing you in particular, more so the majority of posters in that topic. You just directed me there indirectly I suppose.

[MattHunX]

Okay...I have to say after today's matches, I'm all for a system like this.

On WhiteOut...I got 9 kills and died 3 times, in the process I destroyed an AA turret, 3 defense turrets, finished off 2 Artilleries with a heavy pistol, a stank...most of it with a humvee, granted...but it was still a feat.

The scores we get really don't reflect what we accomplish on the field.

On the new Under map, I took out several MLRSs, helped finish off med tanks and got the remaining -25% of their health, when others stopped shooting for whatever reason, and killed over a dozen infantry, with an SBH and yet I was the last on the score board.

With GDI I sniped the pipeline, keeping infantry off the field and got over 30+ kills before I was even killed first. Amongst those were spies, a lot of engineers repairing tanks and enemy snipers.

Just now, I left a Field marathon were I started off with sniping a Buggy to death and helping with an Artie and killed two people, with a basic Marksman. Just at the start, then killed over 40+ people defending Barracks and counter-sniping + I defused a beacon when I saw a spy run in, that no one else saw.

None of it is rewarded, though. Not even with the recommendation system, because no one notices what the other is doing.

Of course, if a veteran system was in play, then everyone would want to get kills in on EVERYTHING. And it would mostly benefit veteran players who have been playing for a decade and make them even more hard to deal with.

[MattHunX]

Not sure if this issue was brought up but it's one I just now thought of. If multiple people are damaging a vehicle or character who gets credit for the kill or would everyone that participated get SP for the kill?

It would be very annoying if I took down an enemy vehicles health, either with a vehicle or on foot and then someone just rolls or runs by and gets the final shot in. And THAT wouldn't happen just once. And once is already annoying enough.

But, the question is...can they even implement an "assisst kill" system...I think I saw it in...uh...Firefall.

Could it be done? Wouldn't it require too much coding and whatever, put together and would get jumbled, too much going on.

[HaTe]

Yeah that was my concern with the assist SP as well. There's multiple ways that it "could" be done, but many would be exploitable and/or very hard to code.

I suppose it could be calculated that if you do greater than or equal to 51 damage to the enemy unit's maximum health, but don't kill the final kill shot, that it could be added in. The problem with this is that if a unit refills or is repaired, it could be that multiple people get rewarded in some way via SP. I suppose that could be seen as a good thing or a bad thing.

Something like:

1 SP for every 2 vehicle assists.

1 SP for every 5 infantry assists.

1 SP for a building assist (since many players could potentially get this bonus from 1 building kill).

[MattHunX]

Yeah that was my concern with the assist SP as well. There's multiple ways that it "could" be done, but many would be exploitable and/or very hard to code.

I suppose it could be calculated that if you do greater than or equal to 51 damage to the enemy unit's maximum health, but don't kill the final kill shot, that it could be added in. The problem with this is that if a unit refills or is repaired, it could be that multiple people get rewarded in some way via SP. I suppose that could be seen as a good thing or a bad thing.

Something like:

1 SP for every 2 vehicle assists.

1 SP for every 5 infantry assists.

1 SP for a building assist (since many players could potentially get this bonus from 1 building kill).

That sounds good. I mean if all chip in.

But, then...if say...3 people would gang up on 1...either on foot or in vehicles...or infantry vs. vehicle...then maybe they'd do 1/3 of the damage, each. So, the only who'd get a veteran point would be the one who gets the kill shot in, since none of them really did "most" of the damage or above 51%. So...

Edited March 25, 2015 by Guest

[HaTe]

I just see any system that awards a person for doing less than 50% damage is easily exploitable. I think that only giving a person who does >=50% would be the best option (at least that I can think of). Any other system would have far too many holes and ways to take advantage of them. If it's "skill points," then it should be individually based and not team anyway, so 50% sounds the most logical.

[MattHunX]

I just see any system that awards a person for doing less than 50% damage is easily exploitable. I think that only giving a person who does >=50% would be the best option (at least that I can think of). Any other system would have far too many holes and ways to take advantage of them. If it's "skill points," then it should be individually based and not team anyway, so 50% sounds the most logical.

No, I'm not arguing the 50%.

I'm just saying that if more people shoot at one target and kill/destroy it...none of them will do 50% of the damage to it. Maybe if there is only 2 on 1. But, more than that and none of them will get 50% of the target's health, cause they'll be 3-4 people shooting at one target, before they kill it quickly. Maybe if the target is being repaired, so all of them will eventually deal enough damage that is 50% of the target's max HP, so at the end, all will get an "assist kill" point.

But, if they gang up on a single target and deal with it quickly, they'll do...say...1/4 of the damage each, so they won't get an "assist kill", but the person who gets the kill-shot will have it count towards the number of kills he/she made, 5-10-20...whatever the thresholds are that reward the veteran points. The others get nothing, though.

[HaTe]

It shouldn't take too much individual skill to 4 man rush and kill a vehicle, though. SP should be rewarded for individual skill, because measuring team skill on a basis like this is near impossible. As mentioned earlier, you can do "whoever damages the vehicle in the last 5 seconds before it dying," but that doesn't award people who damaged it prior to that, and it could mean 20 people shooting at the same vehicle at once all get the SP assist.

Perhaps, and I'm just winging it at this point, a script could be made that awards an assist for SP purposes when any person damages >=10% of the max vehicle health in the final 5 seconds of its life? This seems exploitable and difficult as hell to code, though. I think that the whole >=50% idea is the best way to do it, because it's a compromise to any other system that would be glitchy or exploitable, yet it is still efficient and awards what it is supposed to. The example you use wouldn't award those players, but there's no real unexploitable system I can think of that would...If you have any suggestion on it though, let's hear it lol

[RoundShades]

I like the idea, of a vet system, that:

- rewards player actions rather than "winning, charlie sheen", via repairs to structures being 1 point for whatever amount it was in old ren servers, repairing actual teammates being 2, "q" calling out 15 targets being 1, disarming 15 mines or 1 beacon being 1, killing enemies being 1, killing enemies that have been repairing teammates or mcts being 2, kills around a teammate's beacon being 2, and killing an enemy with a high killstreak being 3.This would also add value to the airstrike, as stripping a blockade of it's repairmen with an airstrike could net a healthy amount of vet system.

- everyone that contributed 4% the death should be rewarded despite when it happened, to encourage "tagging" which is a good practice to encourage, even if it is a few bullets. 4% is to prevent tagging a tank with an assault rifle which is retarded. This should be tracked from the last time the target was at full health, meaning a full repair of something would no longer give anything that attacked it previously the reward.

- veterancy rewards a universal 10% discount when spending any credits, decreases the cooldown of vehicle/infantry airdrops, perhaps increases the rewards of crates, perhaps gives a minor health regen, perhaps negates some of the powerplant loss debuff with things costing 20% less, possibly even some unique secondary weapon access like strong repairgun for 600 or some crazy stuff.

Problem with veterancy, is it would in fact likely be the hardest thing Totem Arts has attempted to develop for RenX since getting the darn thing running lol.

[SFJake]

The difficulty of the veterancy system is all in one they design it. Honestly, they might just want to start with kills (infantry, vehicles and buildings) awards points, and thats it.

Honestly, that would work well enough.

If they can try and remmeber who did a significant amount of damage to count as an ASSIST and give the rewards to ONE other player, that might not be too hard.

But I don't think we need more than 1 assist. Basically, whoever helped the most to kill the target besides the killer gets some points.

So only 2 people could ever profit from 1 kill, but that would be far enough.

[HaTe]

I'd agree with that, Jake. Some might not, but that's the best way to do it overall. I honestly think that the way I set it up in my first post, with the addition of that assist SP system would be best

Edited March 26, 2015 by Guest

[RoundShades]

The difficulty of the veterancy system is all in one they design it. Honestly, they might just want to start with kills (infantry, vehicles and buildings) awards points, and thats it.

Honestly, that would work well enough.

If they can try and remmeber who did a significant amount of damage to count as an ASSIST and give the rewards to ONE other player, that might not be too hard.

But I don't think we need more than 1 assist. Basically, whoever helped the most to kill the target besides the killer gets some points.

So only 2 people could ever profit from 1 kill, but that would be far enough.

It is worthwhile to encourage teamwork by making assist reward open ended. Mobas do that, and it invaluably improves lemming-logic in the game. It is good to encourage everyone to shoot a little everything, as well as for everyone to just lay into the thing at lowest health about to die. If the entire team is rewarded, so be it. Increase the entry level into veterancy if necesary. If the entire team performs well on targetting, they should all be rewarded.

If anything else, then instead, they should just reward the one guy that did the most damage to a dying target in it's lifetime (within the last 20 seconds of it's life perhaps). And not worry about the assist at all. Because it ends in the situation that people either try to get an assist and then stop trying after that, or where they don't go for the assist in a gangbang at all in light of horrible odds of getting it.

[HaTe]

In your proposed system, I would just turn and shoot at each target one time with any gun that does any sort of real damage and then walk away. knowing that I'd get the assist SP anyway. Like I said, easily exploitable. Not to mention that it's not even an "award" or "earned" anymore if every single person is getting it for the smallest things. That's what credits are for. The Vet system is supposed to separate the skilled players from the players that just earn a ton of credits.

[RoundShades]

In your proposed system, I would just turn and shoot at each target one time with any gun that does any sort of real damage and then walk away. knowing that I'd get the assist SP anyway. Like I said, easily exploitable. Not to mention that it's not even an "award" or "earned" anymore if every single person is getting it for the smallest things. That's what credits are for. The Vet system is supposed to separate the skilled players from the players that just earn a ton of credits.

Then make them like achievements, for getting kills with a ramjet after doing a 360 or stealing a vehicle as a sbh.

Or, y'know, encourage "skilled gameplay" with vet system, like killing engineers repairing the armor, or the such. Maybe even travelling 2/3 the distance of the map with 2+ allied infantry as infantry, should grant 1 point.

I mean, that is why old servers used repairing buildings and tanks as vet system. Because rewarding doing that is rewarding the real hero, the forgotten hero in all the gunfights, is the guys doing basic maintinence.

PS: In my system, there is a safeguard for just tagging with 1 bullet or using an unrealistic weapon to do it like assault rifle on mammy, with the 4% thing. Really, it should be like 1 pic/rail shot on a tank, or for infantry like 30hp of damage.

[HaTe]

Its meant to be an easily understood system. I think you're overcomplicating it

PS: In my system, there is a safeguard for just tagging with 1 bullet or using an unrealistic weapon to do it like assault rifle on mammy, with the 4% thing. Really, it should be like 1 pic/rail shot on a tank, or for infantry like 30hp of damage.

Image

There's lots of weapons that can do >4% damage in a very short period of time. Especially considering that vehicle kills include the light armor vehicles, and so they would be penetrated and damaged by that amount very easily. I just really think that it should stay rather simple and easy to keep track of; like credits, but just rewarded for specific everyday gameplay tasks that take skill instead (such as killing vehicles).

[HaTe]

Updated original (first) post to include assist point criteria and rewards.

[Darkraptor]

I think thats this kind of reward-system is a necessary addition. But it would be better, instead of giving SP, when the player is rewarded with a small bost of credits. Thats not so complex .

[SFJake]

That would kill the point of this idea if it just gave credits.

[Alkaline!]

Exactly, veterans system for currency? Baloney I say!

It should be like the original C&C, upgrade character/tank stats!

E.g. if you are sniper and have killed 5 chars you now get faster reload or more HP, as you go from Rank 1 up to say rank 5, a 500 char sniper could basically have the same status as B3 havoc: 1, Shot Kill, 250 HP, 100 armor e.t.c.

Same for tanks, the tank itself would get upgraded not the driver, so loosing that tank would suck. I could see it now a fully upped Mammoth tank with the speed of a medium tank, 2000 HP, QUAD cannon shots, and 8 rockets. Actually how about a when a mammoth reaches level 5 veteran it gets transformed into a MAMMOTH MK2!

OR

A FLAME TANK That gets upgraded to a CHEM TANK!

Another way to buy stuff is not so appealing me thinks...

[HaTe]

We don't want it to be on a per-death basis, though. We'd prefer a per-game basis, because it encourages attacking and taking risks. Sitting back and hiding in order to increase your vet status is not something that we should have in the game or encourage (doing so increases your credits as is, and is part of the problem anyway; people who do things and achieve things are taking that risk, and dying more often. If they do achieve things before their death, they should be rewarded. That's the purpose of the vet system).

[MattHunX]

Was wondering if we would receive or we could purchase rank symbols at terminals. Different ones for the two sides. Maybe.

[HaTe]

Was wondering if we would receive or we could purchase rank symbols at terminals. Different ones for the two sides. Maybe.

I'm not sure what that means. Can you explain?

[MattHunX]

Was wondering if we would receive or we could purchase rank symbols at terminals. Different ones for the two sides. Maybe.

I'm not sure what that means. Can you explain?

You know...

Those symbols that units get in the RTS when they killed enough things, the yellow arrow-things, 1, then 2, then a star or something more extensive, more symbols and more scale to reflect player progression. They could be unlocked by kill or destroy thresholds. The highest rank symbols would only become available after, say, 50+ kills or something...or more. Or destroying a lot of vehicles the 50% health thing or even assist could count.

[HaTe]

Oh I see what you mean. Yeah, ultraAOW has that in their Renegade server. That's more aesthetic that anything else, so it's not much of a concern to me

[SFJake]

Progression is something enjoyed by a lot of casuals.

While making entirely a side-aesthetic thing, it could have a small amount of appeal to some people. Like, the total amount of SP you get over time (counted in all games) increases your rank so that players who played a -lot- will have a high rank to show off to people. You could even tie other visual benefits with it (such as using alternate skins, and by that I don't mean camouflage). That would essentially give casuals something to work towards through their games.

All of this is fluff, though, so I don't expect it would happen when there's much more important things to do.

[HaTe]

Yeah I'm not against it, I just don't see it as a priority for gameplay.

Down the line, sure.

[MattHunX]

Progression is something enjoyed by a lot of casuals.

While making entirely a side-aesthetic thing, it could have a small amount of appeal to some people. Like, the total amount of SP you get over time (counted in all games) increases your rank so that players who played a -lot- will have a high rank to show off to people. You could even tie other visual benefits with it (such as using alternate skins, and by that I don't mean camouflage). That would essentially give casuals something to work towards through their games.

All of this is fluff, though, so I don't expect it would happen when there's much more important things to do.

Oooh, I remember some of the alternate skins, especially one for Sakura, some red sleeveless shirt, mimicking the final bosses look from the original game. That looked FABULOUS.

Also, camo could work.

But, there ARE more important gameplay elements to introduce first, admittedly.

[RoundShades]

So, we are in consensus, that a veteran system is a mild unlocking system for equipment mid-game, where you start with locked things such as vehicle drops and secondary weapons and such, and you unlock access to them and mild passive bonuses and such by earning 30 vet points from so many points of repair or player kills or such. And the other system entirely independent being discussed is a progressive meta system across a player's career that unlocks cosmetics and cool emblems and colors and junk?

I wouldn't mind either, as long as they aren't confused, because this game is likely benefiting from the LACK of a progressive longterm equipment access metagame. It is good that a new player can enter their first match with access to as much as a longtime player. Locked out things, should at most, consist of proxy c4, vehicle drops, passive health regeneration, more ammo to start with or ammo renegeration, possibly access to secondaries or airstrikes/emp/smokes.

I would allow anyone to grab any class, any vehicle, most items, and in the wildest fantasy of being able to purchase better c4 packages instead of them coming with Hotwire/Tech only, allowing specifically that to be purchaseable from start.

Here is an added idea. Remember that passive 1 credit a second from a dead ref? How about that becomes a perk of veterancy, instead of a God given right to every single player in the game? That might possibly be harsh/unfun, depending on how unrealistic getting the first level of veterancy/any veterancy is, but if it is realistic for anyone "playing correctly" to achieve veterancy, then that should be earned and not granted at start.