Donateing Vehicles to the team, without anyone asked for one

[omega79]

What do you think about that?

I just had a "conversation" about this while playing Lakeside ...

Someone bought vehicles and let them stand at the airfield ...

I was defending, and there were constantly GDI infantery roaming behind the Airstrip ...

I did enter them and planted timed c4 on them, so they will blow after 30 seconds if an enemy took them or they were empty ...

People had enough time to take one of the tanks, they did stand around quiet a while ...

I have seen more than one building/game that has been lost because someone left a vehicle in mid base.

Nevertheless, I think it is okay as long as there is an Obelisk or an AGT.

If there is no Obelisk or AGT, think about donating money to those who just joined or ask if someone needs some cash ...

[SFJake]

Its stupid.

If anyone wants a vehicle they can ask, and if you have too much money on your hand ask for donation or just use V to see who needs money.

Sure, its less of a problem when there's base defenses but it can still go wrong (there's nothing more stupid than an APC rush and they get to drive a mammoth tank because an idiot in the team is spending all his money on "free mammies", which nobody wants).

You just don't buy vehicles you're not going to drive if nobody asked for it. Period. I consider that intentional griefing.

[R315r4z0r]

People think they are helping the team but I find it has more negative effects than positive ones.

For one, your hogging the vehicle limit with the vehicles you purchased. For another, if there are no base defenses then an enemy can just come and steal one.

I think people's hearts are in the right place... I just don't think buying them and leaving them open is a good way to go about it.

It would be a cool feature to be able to purchase a vehicle token for your team. So, you'd go into a PT and click to purchase a token for a specific vehicle. It would cost the same amount of money as the vehicle but it wouldn't spawn it. Instead, that token would appear next to the icon for that vehicle and everyone on your team would be able to see it. What it would do is that if a vehicle icon has a token on it, you can use that token to purchase that vehicle instead of using your own credits. Once the token is used, it goes away until another one is bought.

This way, if you have extra money and you want to help out your team, you can go purchasing vehicle tokens for other players to cash in.

[omega79]

that token idea is great!

but as long as you can not do that ....

you can help your team with extra money if:

• Ask if someone wants a vehicle
  
• Ask if someone needs some credits
  
• Donate to a fresh joined player
  
• Donate to someone who needs it (Press "V")
  
• Place airstrikes on the field
  
• Place airstrike on beacons (offense AND defense)
  
• Place random airstrikes on your base (specialy as gdi)
  
• Give a damn about K/D ratio, try something that is risky (for YOU) and unusual
  

[Truxa]

Tokens are a great idea! Better than donating $$ for that "stank rush" or "flame rush" or "mammy rush"

Some people abuse the $$ to buy something completely different than that of why they are getting the money for.

Last time on Mesa as GDI, our ref got attacked by an SBH, for some reason the AGT didn't kill em. He managed to steal an MLRS behind the ref and got it down to 30% before we destroyed it! Immagine if he'd had a nuke!

Empty vehicles are a pain!

For the $$ donating system, I think it's a bit cumbersome as you require to press and hold CTRL then press a letter (for the donating menu) and then looking up a 4 digit code for the player you want to donate to in a large list which is only partially visible due to the text box followed by the number of credits to donate.

Even when you leave with credits in your purse, leaving wont distribute the remaining $$ regretfully.

I do not know of any other way to donate $$ other than that in RenX. In the old ren people used to type: !d ((partially)player name) (amount donated)

It should be made a bit easier in RenX so people tend to use it more often.

[omega79]

won a game of islands today because gdi had 2 mrls, 1 med and 1 mammy in their base ...

they felt really save, because they owned the tunnels and the field for serval minutes ...

took us 2 sbh to reach their base, plant our nukes, jump in the vehicles and cover them

once the vehicle was down, just pic an other one

[ARC_trooper]

Empty vehicles have a big sign saying "steal me", the one buying them should put up a msg saying that there are vehicles available for people who want them. So they wont stay empty for too long, otherwise its just a nice gift to the enemy

[omega79]

but even then, you put your team in danger and waste money if noone takes them ...

[Agent]

Needs more team-donate.

[XD_ERROR_XD]

You should be able to 'shell' specific vehicles, just like in the original game. Allows you to bypass the vehicle limit without it getting stolen by the enemy.

In the original game, if some of your vehicles ran out of health, they become sort of totaled with a very low amount of health, but are still able to be fixed. Once that gets to full health, you returned that shell into working order (but with only 1 hp and had to be repaired once again), and if it reached 0 health, it would get permanently destroyed.

[omega79]

i am not a fan of shells ... that was modded in later ...

team donate would be also sweet ... like "Tdonate 10000" and this 10k got split between all teammates

[SFJake]

You should be able to 'shell' specific vehicles, just like in the original game. Allows you to bypass the vehicle limit without it getting stolen by the enemy.

In the original game, if some of your vehicles ran out of health, they become sort of totaled with a very low amount of health, but are still able to be fixed. Once that gets to full health, you returned that shell into working order (but with only 1 hp and had to be repaired once again), and if it reached 0 health, it would get permanently destroyed.

Shells were awesome. I loved all that they implied, the potential ridiculous rushes, and also a potential way to "steal" vehicles.

I want that feature (along with weapon drops -> with slight limits for stealth and such) so badly, but I don't know what Renegade X thinks of them at this point.

[Truxa]

Tank shells were modded in to counter the endless sieges at under and field maps in the old ren by bypassing the vehicle cap in that sense.

If that is to happen in ren x, some other things would have to be changed as well because it is harder to stop a well led rush of 7 tanks now than it was in the old ren.

On top of that, they have limited the player amount and vehicle amount to reduce vehicle lag. Adding more vehicles by shelling get that issue back seriously.

Do note, I DO like to have tank shells in the game, but they should become objects you cannot walk through (as in the old ren) as long as they are shells. Plus the amount of shells maybe put a max on that (2x the vehicle cap?)

Weapon drops is another thing I'd like to see in ren x. The solo play ren x also dropped weapons/armor/health when you killed enemies, would be nice to bring that to the multiplayer game too.

Limiting weapons as the solo game too (no more than 2 primary weapons, switchable upon pressing "G")

[SFJake]

Well, thats kind of just excuses, in that all of that just strongly implies Renegade X needs some fixing. The player counts was limited because as a temporary alternative to fix the lag, etc. Just as vehicle balance compared to Renegade is just completely off and needs fixing.

Of course they should focus on that before adding weapon drops and shells.

[RoundShades]

People think they are helping the team but I find it has more negative effects than positive ones.

For one, your hogging the vehicle limit with the vehicles you purchased. For another, if there are no base defenses then an enemy can just come and steal one.

I think people's hearts are in the right place... I just don't think buying them and leaving them open is a good way to go about it.

It would be a cool feature to be able to purchase a vehicle token for your team. So, you'd go into a PT and click to purchase a token for a specific vehicle. It would cost the same amount of money as the vehicle but it wouldn't spawn it. Instead, that token would appear next to the icon for that vehicle and everyone on your team would be able to see it. What it would do is that if a vehicle icon has a token on it, you can use that token to purchase that vehicle instead of using your own credits. Once the token is used, it goes away until another one is bought.

This way, if you have extra money and you want to help out your team, you can go purchasing vehicle tokens for other players to cash in.

Complicated to program but great idea.

So you buy a vehicle but don't spawn it, and anyone else that goes into the PT can see that icon as FreeX1 or however many tolkens there are for it.

That way, with a lucrative credit supply, you can purchase meds, mrls, mammies, and hotwires. Anyone broke could buy those free. That way you limit what they can blow their money on to constructive uses, guide their play if you will, but it doesn't sit out in the open.

[Truxa]

If that feature is to be added, some people would argue to do the same for the characters.

For example, you feel there are not enough hotwires/techies in the field or in the base, buy those tokens so others have an additional "free" character.

I still see many players getting out of the vehicle in the field, repairing it and at 90% an SBH steals it.

I still see many players (on Nod) driving back to base and yelling they want to be repaired. Buy an engineer or techy and repair yourself maybe?!

[omega79]

maybe team donation would just be the best ...

[Truxa]

maybe team donation would just be the best ...

Seems so yeah, but teamdonate does not "force" the recipients to follow a certain tactic though.

[omega79]

but there is no way to force anyone do something you want them to do ...

and i believe that is good ... because if so, someone could force you too ...

noone likes to be forced ... and someone forced to do something will most likely fail or do a bad job

[Truxa]

I didnt mean force as in the hard meaning of the word forcing, but more so that "If you want free stuff, you can get this 'n' that"

Side effect of hotwire/tech tokens is the fact they repair ... repairing --> credits/points --> they buy something they want after they helped the team

When i just join a server, i take engineer every time to repair and generate credits in order to buy what i realy want. same thing, they are not "forced" to take the free humvee or the free hotwire, they can buy the mlrs too when they have the $$ for it ... i see no harm

[RoundShades]

If that feature is to be added, some people would argue to do the same for the characters.

For example, you feel there are not enough hotwires/techies in the field or in the base, buy those tokens so others have an additional "free" character.

I still see many players getting out of the vehicle in the field, repairing it and at 90% an SBH steals it.

I still see many players (on Nod) driving back to base and yelling they want to be repaired. Buy an engineer or techy and repair yourself maybe?!

That last point is the reason I argue it might be cool to have a weaker repair gun secondary purchaseable. That way there is some valid variety between getting a hotwire with tiberium auto rifle, and a laser chaingunner with a weak repairgun. Obviously the stronger primary would be 100-200 creds more expensive, make the repair gun like 300 itself as a secondary and just the weak one.

[Am Segulla]

This thread is great. I agree with almost all the suggested ideas - tokens, team donate, an easier donation command system. I am skeptical about bringing back shells, though. Destroying them in the mayhem of the enemy base during a rush was extremely difficult sometimes. The constant vehicle swaps sometimes made the game drag on.

[R315r4z0r]

I'm not entirely sold on applying the token idea to characters. They are just a different breed to vehicles. With vehicles, it doesn't matter what character you are, you can always use whatever vehicle you want. With characters, they are a major deciding factor on how you're going to be playing for the remainder of that character's life.

While I really can't think of many reasons to not allow the token system for characters.. I'm not sure I like it anyway.

[Am Segulla]

R315r4z0r, I don't think that's an issue because no one is forced to use the tokens. Basically, the wealthy player gets to say, "I will pay for technicians because we need more. If you don't want to be a technician, you'll have to buy your character with your own/someone else's credits." I get kinda frustrated when I donate to engineers to upgrade their repair capabilities and they use the money to buy a 500 sniper.

[disorder]

I did this last night, I was in the base helping but noticed I had nearly 3600 credits, so I built 4 medium tanks then in CAPS I said "There are free tanks at the WF, pls take one!" Then I stood around guarding them to make sure they were all taken. I also said multiple times in caps that they were there, and they were all taken by our own team so no biggie.

Now this is the strange thing. We were behind with 32k points to Nod's 40k. My tank spam along with the 2 mams and 2+ mrls we had in the field allowed us to push back the enemy frontline right back to their base and we secured the victory.

Soo.. free tank spam is fine if handled properly and none are stolen. Maybe it should team-lock the vehicles until someone has at least got in and got out again. But still, Stop complaining. It is a risky maneuver and the reward when done properly pays off very well. Like all high risk ventures you need total awareness of the situation before trying it, but since it is a part of the game and not a hack why not continue to let people do it as long as it is properly handled.

I doubt it really matters compared to the amount of times it works vs the times it didn't.

[Truxa]

The number of times a tank is not taken by own team but opposing team is higher than the number of times all the tank are taken in time.

Therefore, when I see someone buying loads of tanks, I start to timed-C4 them, when they are taken, no harm done (no friendly fire right?) when they are not taken, they get destroyed, so opposing team doesnt get the tank either.

[omega79]

only because you got lucky with your team getting the tanks does not make it a good tactic ...

donating tanks can help, but only if you have people taking the tanks ...

always ask first, and then buy if needed ...

in your case there would have been 4 people who would have said "yes, please donate me a tank"

if noone responds to your question just do not do it

btw field is the map with the lowest risk for tank theft in base

[Am Segulla]

only because you got lucky with your team getting the tanks does not make it a good tactic ...

donating tanks can help, but only if you have people taking the tanks ...

always ask first, and then buy if needed ...

in your case there would have been 4 people who would have said "yes, please donate me a tank"

if noone responds to your question just do not do it

btw field is the map with the lowest risk for tank theft in base

Right. Simply put, there is no benefit to this tactic.

[Truxa]

I wouldnt totally agree to the failure of this tactic. Simply ask ingame you want to buy meds to do a med rush and ask who wants to join. The number of people responding "I do!" gives you the number of the tanks needed. Simple!

Also state: Med rush meet at place X

NOTE: med can be changed with any other vehicle you wish to rush with

[Am Segulla]

I should have been more specific about what I meant by "this tactic." Asking before purchasing is good when done well.

[Fastolf]

I like all the ideas in this thread. Save for one thing...

Please.

No.

Shells.

Seriously.

[com2ghz]

Sometimes you're in a full server and you see 0 or 1 vehicles on the field. No one buys then and the match takes ages and gets boring. For example C&C_fields, ppl playing in tunnels while the fields is empty and no one rushes. Its like $1000 character war.

I've done it alot and prepairing single type vehicle rush. Like buying 4 flamers or arti's and gather ppl so we can rush or at least supressing the opponent. As GDI its MRLS and meds. This caused always some activity from our team. Each time when I did this, it was effective so other ppl also buy vehicles and joining the rush.

It's really boring when you see 1 flamer going for a suicide trip to a mammy.

Mostly the vehicle cap is at 11 or 15. It's a shame if we don't even hold the half of the cap. Matches are getting boring then. Maybe because of the new players who didn't play the old Renegade.

Just as our whole team lone wolfing while our tanks getting raped because there are no engineers repairing it.

I think there are also some balance problems causing these things, but that's another problem

I play this game since 2003 and since the current beta I started to play Renegade X alot (name = Insanity). The game is getting more fun when you orginize small rushes. Last time I gathered with 4 Gunners and killed the PP in a minute.

[Truxa]

Sometimes you're in a full server and you see 0 or 1 vehicles on the field. No one buys then and the match takes ages and gets boring. For example C&C_fields, ppl playing in tunnels while the fields is empty and no one rushes. Its like $1000 character war.

I've done it alot and prepairing single type vehicle rush. Like buying 4 flamers or arti's and gather ppl so we can rush or at least supressing the opponent. As GDI its MRLS and meds. This caused always some activity from our team. Each time when I did this, it was effective so other ppl also buy vehicles and joining the rush.

It's really boring when you see 1 flamer going for a suicide trip to a mammy.

This might occasionally work but more times than not, I see people doing this and the vehicles remain empty in the base. Sometimes the opposing team comes up with a rush while a player is buying vehicles for others this way.

Realize that upon production, the vehicle is locked for 20 seconds for the purchaser, but not for the opposing team. Many times this caused a drawback; the opposing team rushes, few of their vehicles get killed but the drivers rush towards the emty vehicles and continue the rush.

To prevent such happenings, I make it a habit of putting timed C4's on the empty vehicles after i entered it. If it takes more than 30 seconds for someone to enter it and join the advance, it's too late. But imo a vehicle destroyed is better than handed to the enemy.

[com2ghz]

Sometimes you're in a full server and you see 0 or 1 vehicles on the field. No one buys then and the match takes ages and gets boring. For example C&C_fields, ppl playing in tunnels while the fields is empty and no one rushes. Its like $1000 character war.

I've done it alot and prepairing single type vehicle rush. Like buying 4 flamers or arti's and gather ppl so we can rush or at least supressing the opponent. As GDI its MRLS and meds. This caused always some activity from our team. Each time when I did this, it was effective so other ppl also buy vehicles and joining the rush.

It's really boring when you see 1 flamer going for a suicide trip to a mammy.

This might occasionally work but more times than not, I see people doing this and the vehicles remain empty in the base. Sometimes the opposing team comes up with a rush while a player is buying vehicles for others this way.

Realize that upon production, the vehicle is locked for 20 seconds for the purchaser, but not for the opposing team. Many times this caused a drawback; the opposing team rushes, few of their vehicles get killed but the drivers rush towards the emty vehicles and continue the rush.

To prevent such happenings, I make it a habit of putting timed C4's on the empty vehicles after i entered it. If it takes more than 30 seconds for someone to enter it and join the advance, it's too late. But imo a vehicle destroyed is better than handed to the enemy.

I think the difference is that I'm organizing a rush. Like calling ppl to enter those vehicles and go rushing with a group. Leaving empty vehicles is dumb.