Is there any reson not to take the carbine over the AR?

[Taramafor]

I mean, it's DIRT cheap (perhaps too much so) and does 3 damages whereas an AR does only 1. Doesn't that make the AR a bit obsolete?

Though from personal experience, I find the AR a bit more reliable and easier to manage despite the 1 bar of damage. But that's probably because of the larger clip size. Should the carbine cost a bit more? Give the AR a bit more damage? Also, doesn't a carbine make ANY class BETTER then a normal soldier (or at least on par)?

Don't get me wrong, I love the game and I'm having a blast playing it. But I can't help but wonder what use a soldier is with the carbine compared to the AR. I imagine the soldier is for more prolonged fights whereas the carbine is designed for single targets with the lower clip size.

[R315r4z0r]

For starters, I think this is too soon to talk about. Mainly because there is a bug with sidearms where they stay in your inventory after you die/change map. They aren't intended to be one-time purchases. You die, you have to buy it again. So, when it comes to the carbine, you'd have to spend the 175c or whatever it costs EVERY time you want to use it.

But that aside, you gotta remember the AR is free. And it isn't half bad for a free unit. It has a longer range and rate of fire than the carbine and it also has more the double the magazine size.

However, I will say that I do think the carbine is pretty awesome. It's my favorite weapon in the game. But like I said above, when they fix the bug with sidearms not carrying over after death, then their cost should mitigate their effectiveness.

[ErroR]

Would you stop throwing the "it's crap because it's free" excuse so much.

The AR is a primary weapon, it's supposed to be better than the secondary, even if it costs a few credits.

It's outclassed by pretty much every other primary.

The carbine costs money BUT it replaces the pistol and not the main weapon.

You can effectively have both AR and carbine and the carbine would still be better despite being a secondary imo.

The AR needs a change to be less terrible.

It was much more reliable in renegade, part maybe being because it was easier to aim with using freeaim but still.

[Taramafor]

Thinking about it, is there a reason not to take it over a pistol (I mean, it has a silencer as well after all) or a sub machine gun?

[Letty]

Far too expensive and I kill things just fine with the normal AR. Doesn't seem that useful really. I can hardly tell a difference between the Carbine and the AR, both need ~4 headshots to kill, and the carbine seems to have similar accuracy.

But then when I choose a $0 class I almost always go with Engineer. Pistol is quite a competent weapon and has no tracer, and I can always use the extra C4 and a repair gun. I completely can't understand people who would buy a weapon for a $0 class, it's far more effective to just buy a better class and get the HP boost. Though I've yet to experience the bug that lets you keep your sidearm after death, how does that work?

Edited March 2, 2014 by Guest

[R315r4z0r]

Would you stop throwing the "it's crap because it's free" excuse so much.

I use it because it's true. A weapon that is free should not out perform a weapon that isn't. Primary/Secondary is irrelevant, imo. Not only that, but the carbine is always available, even if you lose your barracks/hand of nod. I won't lie and say I don't prefer the carbine over the AR, but I don't think the AR is necessarily bad. It has much less spread and is way more accurate. The carbine is just a close combat weapon, which is where I prefer to play.

Thinking about it, is there a reason not to take it over a pistol (I mean, it has a silencer as well after all) or a sub machine gun?

Normally I'd agree with you, but like I said before, it's too soon to talk about it because it isn't working as intended at the moment.

I can tell you right now though that I wouldn't use the carbine nearly as much as I do now if I had to pay for it each time. I always have a carbine now because I buy it once and it just sticks to my player. It's not a preference to keep it on me (even though I do like it), it's just how the game is working.

IMO I find that the carbine runs out of ammo fairly quickly. And that also puts you at a disadvantage since you lose your infinite ammo weapon and you can be left completely unable to fight back if you spend everything.

But regardless, it's not that I'm against making any changes to the carbine or AR... I just think we should first wait to see how it plays out after the sidearm bug is fixed.

Though I've yet to experience the bug that lets you keep your sidearm after death, how does that work?

Basically once you buy a new sidearm, it gets put into your sidearm list in the PT (F1 slot). It stays there until you change servers or quit the game. Even persisting through map changes. So all you need to do is use a PT once after you die and you get your sidearm back.

[Letty]

Basically once you buy a new sidearm, it gets put into your sidearm list in the PT (F1 slot). It stays there until you change servers or quit the game. Even persisting through map changes. So all you need to do is use a PT once after you die and you get your sidearm back.

I can't replicate this. Going back to the PT I only see my silenced pistol and machine pistol. But w/e, I don't want those weapons anyway.

And yes, $125 vs $0 is a huge amount of money. If the glitch to keep the weapon is working for you then fine, exploit it to your hearts desire until it gets fixed (I can't complain, I'm exploiting the PIC/Railgun glitch). But if you have to buy a $125 weapon that hardly improves over the base weapon and has far less ammo/clip size, then you are pretty much shooting yourself in the foot. That's throwing away about 40-60 seconds of your income, each time you buy it.

[SFJake]

I always saw the Carbine as an engineer/tech weapon. As a defense tech its really nice to have.

[Cyridius]

From my use of both of them I prefer the AutoRifle. Its accurate, has a large magazine and ammo capacity(100/400 as opposed to 30/120) and it can actually do soft damage to several vehicles(Which can come useful in certain cases).

I almost never buy the carbine, it's recoil is too horizontal and as such feels incredibly unpredictable. Maybe I'm missing some nuance, but that's a deal breaker for me.

It's an OK supplemental weapon but I think the AutoRifle is competitive enough in comparison.

As a sidenote, the whole "It's OK if it's shit because it's free" argument is valid to a certain extent. Economy is a part of the game, you use your credits to buy better stuff. Why spend the credits if it doesn't get you anything? But that doesn't mean it should be imbalanced - the Carbine ought to be better at what it's designed to do, kill infantry. Nothing else.

As a Soldier(Which I play pretty consistently except to switch to Engi to repair buildings/kill beacons) I pretty much never buy it, in any case.

[Taramafor]

Basically once you buy a new sidearm, it gets put into your sidearm list in the PT (F1 slot). It stays there until you change servers or quit the game. Even persisting through map changes. So all you need to do is use a PT once after you die and you get your sidearm back.

I can't replicate this. Going back to the PT I only see my silenced pistol and machine pistol. But w/e, I don't want those weapons anyway.

And yes, $125 vs $0 is a huge amount of money. If the glitch to keep the weapon is working for you then fine, exploit it to your hearts desire until it gets fixed (I can't complain, I'm exploiting the PIC/Railgun glitch). But if you have to buy a $125 weapon that hardly improves over the base weapon and has far less ammo/clip size, then you are pretty much shooting yourself in the foot. That's throwing away about 40-60 seconds of your income, each time you buy it.

Actually, it's quite useful if you play as a rocket trooper. Then you have a nice anti infantry weapon while still being able to be a threat against armor. So if you don't buy a vehicle, you saved money and are prepared for any situation.

[Letty]

Pistol is already a nice anti infantry weapon. Arguably better than the AR or Carbine in many situations.

Furthermore, spending 225 for rocket + 125 for Carbine means you've spent 350 total. That's a huge sum, why not just buy a SBH or Gunner? I'd say that either of them is a far, far better bang for your buck.

[Daedhart]

I absolutely prefer the AR over the carbine. I need attrition during my infantry firefights, and having to stop and reload every 4 seconds does not work too well with my play style. And I actually prefer the silenced pistol for an engi weapon because it has instant hit bullets.

[R315r4z0r]

Basically once you buy a new sidearm, it gets put into your sidearm list in the PT (F1 slot). It stays there until you change servers or quit the game. Even persisting through map changes. So all you need to do is use a PT once after you die and you get your sidearm back.

And yes, $125 vs $0 is a huge amount of money. If the glitch to keep the weapon is working for you then fine, exploit it to your hearts desire until it gets fixed (I can't complain, I'm exploiting the PIC/Railgun glitch).

It's not that cut and dry. I'm not exploiting anything. It's being forced on me. I buy it once then that new weapon becomes my primary sidearm until I leave the server. I can go and switch it back to the silenced pistol, but it just re-equips the carbine if I do something as simple as a refill. It's not worth the effort of switching it back to the pistol every time I use a PT. Especially since I only enter PTs for less than a second anyway.

[Taramafor]

Pistol is already a nice anti infantry weapon. Arguably better than the AR or Carbine in many situations.

Furthermore, spending 225 for rocket + 125 for Carbine means you've spent 350 total. That's a huge sum, why not just buy a SBH or Gunner? I'd say that either of them is a far, far better bang for your buck.

Maybe for you, but not everyone is that good at aiming, and when a target's moving (which is 95% of the time) it's more difficult to aim at the head (more so at more distant targets). With automatic weapons, you can at least spray over the general area or hose down the torso. Case in point, AR/carbine works better for me.

No rocket. No rifle. If everyone in a team played as a rocket trooper (those on foot at least) they would be just as effective against infantry and vehicles. BH are ok against infantry, but not so great against vehicles. Gunner is vice versa, plus rockets have slower travel time, meaning faster moving infantry, or infantry on higher places or at longer range are much less likely to be hit. AR/carbine can hit longer range targets (and those on higher ground where a rocket would do no splash damage).

Also, I just don't like how the laser rifle handles for some reason. More down to personal preference though.

[Soldieroffate]

I only resort to the carbine/machine pistol if I'm playing an engineer/Hotwire/technician.

The AR is a beefy weapon for what it's worth, and unlike old Ren, it retains its usefulness even in the late-game phases.

[Letty]

Maybe for you, but not everyone is that good at aiming, and when a target's moving (which is 95% of the time) it's more difficult to aim at the head (more so at more distant targets). With automatic weapons, you can at least spray over the general area or hose down the torso. Case in point, AR/carbine works better for me.

If you strafe with a target their head is no longer moving relative to you. Try using the pistol a bit more, you'll probably come to like it with a bit of experience. Even if you don't like the silenced pistol then the machine pistol can serve your needs.

No rocket. No rifle. If everyone in a team played as a rocket trooper (those on foot at least) they would be just as effective against infantry and vehicles. BH are ok against infantry, but not so great against vehicles. Gunner is vice versa, plus rockets have slower travel time, meaning faster moving infantry, or infantry on higher places or at longer range are much less likely to be hit. AR/carbine can hit longer range targets (and those on higher ground where a rocket would do no splash damage).

Gunner is absolutely amazing against infantry at up to mid range (anything within the range of your AR), the splash damage ensures kills. Honestly I consider him the best character in the game for all around awesome. In an anti-infantry role he can 1v1 anyone fairly competently as long as he isn't fighting across sniper range, and against groups he is the best bar none with his ability to hurt multiple targets at once. Against Heavy Armor he actually does 50% more DPS than the Personal Ion Cannon. That's insane. A $400 character outperforming a $1k character at what the $1k character is supposed to be best at.

As for SBH, the SBH rifle actually does more DPS against Heavy Tanks than a Rocket Launcher. Not sure on the exact amount but it's definitely more damaging. Nevermind the obvious tactical advantage of cloak.

Also remember that when you pay for a higher tier character you aren't just paying for their weapon, but also their greater health pool.

[R315r4z0r]

The thing that's good about the sidearms, and what I'm reading in this thread backs this up, is that it gives something to cater to everyone. Not everyone is super awesome with the pistol, so they can use a carbine or tib weapon. Other people prefer the pistol.

I think you should stick to what you are good at using. Cause in a lot of situations, it isn't the literal balance of the weapons it's your ability to use them well or not. It's not a crime to be good at using a weapon. If you're good with it, then use that to your advantage.

[Letty]

I'm not disagreeing with that, I'm just cautioning people to take a hard look at where they spend their money and what the alternatives are.