Hourglass hill camping.

[Demigan]

The only problem I ever saw was the hillcamping, the map is completely balanced otherwise.

GDI can shoot the obi without the obi shooting back with medium tanks, if you go from the hill, you need to pass the horizontal piece towards the more vertical piece to be able to shoot the obi, it's not range that is lacking at all, but the med turret which can't aim very low.

The sides of the map are long, a med can't shoot from one side to the other. Oh boy! you only need to drive for 1,5 seconds forwards to be able to shoot the other side. So no problem there. Especially if you come with 'but nod has arty's which will tear up any vehicle because of that 1,5 second extra time to shoot'. Well, true that, but do to the sloping ground at the ends of the sides, snipers are very hard to hit as you can't shoot the ground they are standing on so well, which means that any sniper poses a terrible threat to arty's. Alone you won't be able to beat them, but if you are alone, what the hell are you doing unprotected on the sides?

MRLS rush, gunner rush? I've only seen gunner rushes on hourglass to kill the TURRETS! MRLS rush I've seen rarely. But simply med rushes, even mammoth rushes, work like a charm. Or the oldie mcgoldy: APC rush, you can rush with just one and reach the obi, with 3, you have about 40% chance of destroying a structure. Which is very, very high if you think about how many rushes you normally need to actually destroy anything. People are always looking at that sure-fire rush which will guarantee a building destroyed, there are none. You just have to keep track of your enemy, move a team where they aren't, and hope like hell that there isn't someone to repair nearby when you start blasting away.

Yours sincerely,

Demigan.

[R315r4z0r]

You realize I'm talking about the Renegade X version of Hourglass right?

The hill is THE most balanced spot on the map. It can be contested by either GDI or Nod. Each has their strengths on it and each has their weaknesses.

[R315r4z0r]

You know, maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way.

I think I can limit it down a bit to make it seem less unbias. The map is designed in a clever way to not allow any vehicle, other than artilleries, to range in on the enemy's base without being seen by the base defense. I like that, it forces artillery use in the early game.

However, the one thing I don't like, which I find the most unbalanced, is the fact that if you opt to tank rush the enemy defense, Nod has a much easier time getting to the AGT than GDI has getting to the Obelisk. Why are cheaper, lesser armored Nod vehicles able to breach GDI's defenses single handedly while GDI's expensive heavily armored vehicles need to charge in with packs of 3 or more in order to get the last tank to explode close enough to the obelisk to allow the driver to run inside? I don't think this is fair.

Now, I'm not saying to make it easy for GDI to get to the Obelisk, I'm just asking to make it more accessible. As of right now, it's a very limited feeling when playing as GDI when you feel as if you could be doing so much more but you are forced into a position were you need to use the MRLS if you want to attack.

So, how should this be adjusted? Well, the reason why GDI has trouble getting to the Obelisk is because this version of Hourglass is larger than Renegade's. Meaning, vehicles need to travel a longer distance, and therefore are open for more hits. That's why I propose to somehow adjust the design from the sidelines to the Obelisk to allow GDI to get a bit closer without the Obelisk being able to see the vehicles.

Maybe some sort of overhang that blocks the obelisk crystal or something perspective like that?

*Note, I'm not asking to make it possible for GDI to get close enough to the Nod base to be able to pick off structures while not being seen by the Obelisk (as they still will be out of range and they will also be in the open for enemy attacks) I'm just suggesting giving GDI a bit of a head start before the Obelisk sees them.

[TigerXtrm]

QUOTE

Now, I'm not saying to make it easy for GDI to get to the Obelisk, I'm just asking to make it more accessible. As of right now, it's a very limited feeling when playing as GDI when you feel as if you could be doing so much more but you are forced into a position were you need to use the MRLS if you want to attack.[/b]

My exact feelings of the map right now. MRLS is the only real way GDI can attack at the moment, which is not how it should be.

[evanb90]

QUOTE (R315r4z0r @ Nov 15 2009, 10:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You know, maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way.

I think I can limit it down a bit to make it seem less unbias. The map is designed in a clever way to not allow any vehicle, other than artilleries, to range in on the enemy's base without being seen by the base defense. I like that, it forces artillery use in the early game.

However, the one thing I don't like, which I find the most unbalanced, is the fact that if you opt to tank rush the enemy defense, Nod has a much easier time getting to the AGT than GDI has getting to the Obelisk. Why are cheaper, lesser armored Nod vehicles able to breach GDI's defenses single handedly while GDI's expensive heavily armored vehicles need to charge in with packs of 3 or more in order to get the last tank to explode close enough to the obelisk to allow the driver to run inside? I don't think this is fair.

Now, I'm not saying to make it easy for GDI to get to the Obelisk, I'm just asking to make it more accessible. As of right now, it's a very limited feeling when playing as GDI when you feel as if you could be doing so much more but you are forced into a position were you need to use the MRLS if you want to attack.

So, how should this be adjusted? Well, the reason why GDI has trouble getting to the Obelisk is because this version of Hourglass is larger than Renegade's. Meaning, vehicles need to travel a longer distance, and therefore are open for more hits. That's why I propose to somehow adjust the design from the sidelines to the Obelisk to allow GDI to get a bit closer without the Obelisk being able to see the vehicles.

Maybe some sort of overhang that blocks the obelisk crystal or something perspective like that?

*Note, I'm not asking to make it possible for GDI to get close enough to the Nod base to be able to pick off structures while not being seen by the Obelisk (as they still will be out of range and they will also be in the open for enemy attacks) I'm just suggesting giving GDI a bit of a head start before the Obelisk sees them.[/b]

My feelings exactly.

I also find it funny when it comes to counterattacking the hill campers.
In a recent match of Whoreglass, I was in a Light Tank, rushed up the hill to stop an MLRS which retreated into the safety bubble of the AGT as it saw me approach- I went right into the safety bubble and was under direct fire from the AGT and the MLRS, was able to destroy the MLRS and awhile still being under fire from the AGT, retreated and got to safety with about 200 HP remaining.

Conversely, if I dared to do that against a Nod Arty, I would likely lose my tank/inf without even killing the Arty.

(although to be fair I am discussing the weakness of GDI on the hill and the advantage of Nod on the hill)

[der Papst]

QUOTE (TigerXtrm @ Nov 16 2009, 11:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My exact feelings of the map right now. MRLS is the only real way GDI can attack at the moment, which is not how it should be.[/b]

Which ways have nod except Artillery?
Stealth is not possible becaust of the guard towers and no tank in the game has enough range to fire into the base (and GDI has also the better tanks)
And MRLS is better than Artillery because it locks a target and the missiles fly over the hill top.

Yesterday, NOD lost every round on hourglass against an MRLS-Rush...

[R315r4z0r]

You're not listening (er... reading)

GDI is limited to MRLS rushs. This means it's their only cost/time effective means to assaulting the enemies base as long as the Obelisk is standing. Period.

Nod has the Artillery. The Artillery, like the MRLS, is Nod's only means to attack the GDI base outside of GDI's defenses. But it is not Nod's ONLY means of attacking. Every Nod vehicle, bar the Buggy, is able to make it to the AGT, by themselves, without dying. In fact, they can make it there without losing more than half their total health!

Try to do that as GDI and you will be shut up before you can say "Nod Sucks!"

[TigerXtrm]

Me and a friend have on more than one occasion completely wrecked the GDI base with just 2 flamers, and both of them made it to the AGT. A few days ago we even raped GDI so hard that we killed every single building BUT the AGT and us and the rest of the Nod team started to rape GDI for the next 45 minutes, constantly getting APC's and driving PAST the AGT, behind the WF and killing everything we could see. It was funny as hell but proves how unbalanced the GDI base is on Hourglass.

The balance of that map needs to be seriously looked at. Renegade had many bugs and flaws, Hourglass is one big flaw in so many ways and it needs to be balanced in this mod where Renegade left off.

[epicelite]

Also when GDI attacks Nod even when they get to the OB can still be taken out by the, not useful, turrets.

[thrash300]

QUOTE (R315r4z0r @ Nov 14 2009, 11:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did you even read what you quoted or did you just make it up as you went along then quoted me for good measure?

Seriously, what are you talking about? Lol.[/b]

I was reffering to the balance situations about hillcamping. It is not a big deal and I don't think it can be avoided or reduced.

[R315r4z0r]

I've said this already:

The hill is the most balanced part of the map.

[zunnie]

I love to hillcamp on hourglass

Only thing that bugs me is that the medium tank is outranged when trying to hit the obelisk from the sides. That was possible in Renegade so it should be made possible in RenX as well.

Vehicle wise Nod has a big advantage on Hourglass right now.