Balance in RenX 0.35

[Focluster]

Until it gets fixed about the artillery, you can use the field and move back and forth and still kill this vehicle once you are close enough. The GW clan is one of the best examples of how to do this in Renegade. Apply it in Renegade X and it should have a similar effect. I have won more than once against an arty by using the terrain levels at my advantage. As that was already said, it's harder for an arty to accurately shoot from far. If you can never dodge an arty's attack, then you have two options, move back and forth and sometimes stop or rush. Imagine that you are an arty and face a med tank moving back and forth like that. What would you do? There are three main offensive choices in that kind of situation. You can aim directly to the med tank or beside (left or right). I have played on the arty's side and still so it's a good idea to learn how to do that. Some are pretty good at it that it becomes hard for the player in the arty. So for best results, learn how to move back and forth with a med tank and play against someone with a med tank that do that easily against your arty. You will make more connections that way and you should have an higher chance to do something.

This basic principle can be applied with all the units in the game to some extents. Specific rules can modify and apply according to the unit used and the enemy unit.

Acquire, Understand, Explore, Debug and Apply. This doesn't go in linear steps everytime. The test phase is used to redo one or more phases written above once it's done.

There is some imbalance but sometimes it's that imbalance that makes it replayable for the both sides.

For the rest, I know it will be or is fixed. I have to agree with enderx475 at almost all the points if not all. I have noticed all these points as well. The units are not all there so the Hand of Nod is not probably the same as a Weapon Factory even if it can give a larger advantage to GDI right now. I have to agree with what Fobby has said about the Hand of Nod. I have taken into consideration all this.

However, I have tested the obelisk alone with a med tank and an hotwire at the maximum speed I could get and when the obelisk wasn't charged. The obelisk killed my med tank and my hotwire with no opportunity to get close enough. I could not do anything good. Do the same to the AGT you have a better chance to get in. I have also tested with an APC against a non-precharged obelisk. I moved up there without stopping and I didn't make it. The obelisk destroyed my APC and me. Some solutions would be to attack in teams with at least two vehicles that move fast enough while no one is defending except the obelisk, of course. A rush with four mammies didn't make it. I don't remember if there were people defending the base, though. There is still the way to attack the obelisk with a good old group of gunners. So, there are still ways to do something, just apply the teamwork and you should be fine.

Use this moment to find strategies against NOD. Have someone to mine it up at the tunnels while you have a tanker. Attack and defend early. The result done in the early attack and defence may determine whether you will win or lose. If it's 4 vs 1 and you are alone in GDI, then change team and if someone cries, then tell him to balance the teams and be aware of the current balance or say nothing. The point is to have fun so if you take the appropriate actions, you should be happy almost all the time if not always.

I am glad if it helps one or more players. The team has done an excellent work on this project. In exchange I send some constructive feedback for you. I would have done a bigger one but I am short in time. Sorry if that's not enough, I am busy in my projects myself . (JK)

[FooFighter]

QUOTE (Lyserg @ Oct 12 2009, 02:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then people need to learn how to rush.[/b]

Your BS is epic. Everyone knowns arty is op due to the rof or shell speed, you must be on drugs if you say it isn't.

[SIBTI]

how do u guys make a mod indie if u can make this mod indie then im friggen begging u please make it INDIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lyserg]

QUOTE (FooFighter @ Oct 14 2009, 11:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your BS is epic. Everyone knowns arty is op due to the rof or shell speed, you must be on drugs if you say it isn't.[/b]

Sadly, I aint on drugs at this time. therefore I 'soberly' dissagree it's overpowered, I've destroyed enough to be able to say so without getting even my med tank shot to hell, but it has also occured the other way around. Consluding it's quite well balanced.

QUOTE (SIBTI @ Oct 14 2009, 12:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

how do u guys make a mod indie if u can make this mod indie then im friggen begging u please make it INDIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/b]

Impossible without buying a UE3 licence and the rights to the C&C franchise, or atleast Renegade. all in all it would either turn into total bankrupcy of the community(if donations would be accepted for that prupose) or lawsuits from 2 large game companies, Epic and EA.

[Gigmaster]

Minnigunners do alllllot of damage. A minnigunner in the field tunnels held off waves of 3 nod basics by himself at range. It was scary.

Yes, the Obelisk is terrifying, but I also noticed that the guard tower's machine guns do a LOT more damage than before. You poke your head around the rock = you're dead in 2-3 shots.

Though it might be invisible missals.

[Gandjak]

Well about arties what i could say : in original Ren, if i remember well, the shots of arties weren't very accurate (all the shells didn't go straight forward). It wasn't a problem agaisnt buildings, but a litle more against far vehicles and infantries. About Obelisk : In original Ren you could rush with a solo APC an get to the door of the obelisk. You can't now, but i wonder if it is due to the obelisk itself or to the normal turrets which seems to be more useful than before. As a counterpart, before you wasn't get shot when your vehicle was very close to the AGT. Now it's harder to keep your flamtank until the destruction of the tower since the machineguns continue to shoot you (and they do quite a lot of damage to tanks). So i think there's no imbalance problem on this side. And about HON and factories No it's not an imbalance if they are both the exposed building of each sides. In general i have allways been convinced that GDI had the most powerful vehicles and NOD the most powerful infantry. So Each side has their most important building dangerously exposed in this map. In any way, a team which neglict repairing its base and defend will almost loose all the time. Please dev team release my lovely favourite laser machinegun 450 infantry of NOD ^^ Patch is so lame compared to these awesome men :]

[SIBTI]

what if people made donations for buying a UE3license Unreal engine 3 license and for 2 lawsuits will that help?

[Gigmaster]

Still a LOT of money. A more legally minded community member could give you some numbers perhaps, but lets just say Renegade X would practically become a standalone, purchasable game, and then a fair bit more, in terms of costs handed down to us. If we were to donate any money, I'd say that we'd be better off donating our time, using our individual skills for helping out the dev team (and maybe giving them some change for Ramen breaks )

I've been playing Field on GDI a lot recently; some ideas that have worked:

Mine early. Let everyone know what you're doing, get a grenadier, and C4 / shoot the Harvester for cash. If NOD is rushing out with everything they can onto the tiberium fields, hang a right at the tunnel maze and shoot the airfield tower from the nod enterence (yes, you can do this easily, AND it will split the noddies when they go to protect their harvester). Rack up enough cash for a Hotwire, then go out in a blaze of glory and respawn.

First thing you do? Mine, mine , mine. Specifically, mine the tunnels first. Lay down a good 6-9 mines in each, and make sure the sides of the tunnel & middle are covered (I saw a stealth troop take a hit from one mine and waltz past the rest to refinery). This cuts off any nuke advantage that they have, assuming that someone goes through tunnels to check once in a blue moon. Follow up with buildings (this also helps with that flammer rush, for when someone tries to walk into the AGT through a flamer screen).

Nuking the NOD refinery is pretty easy cheese. Get an officer and your nuke, get by the nod tunnel exit near the refinery, and squeeze past the tunnel lip up to that first big rock. Hopefully, the obi doesn't see you and charge; if it does, you need to wait about... half a minute, I think? Before it looses the charge. Then cut to the left, and hide under the refinery's side while you plant your nuke. Don't forget that timed C4 :3 )

As for obi, gunner rush is really the best way to go. Send out a techie first to clear tunnels & mine nod's tunnel exit near the obelisk, then attack with 4-5 gunners on the obelisk, while someone else (MRLS or similar) attacks the hand. Nod will usually try to take out the Hand party (after loosing someone to mines), giving the gunners a good chance of killing the obelisk.

To be frank though, the gunner rush (I've found) is the only effective way to take out the obelisk on Field. Mammoth's don't work, and APCs don't work, unless you have 3 loaded up. Part of why obelisk rushes are so much harder on Field, I think, is that the path to the OBelisk is narrower than the path to the AGT, and vehicles leave wreckage now. 5 seconds trapped behind the preceeding APC is bad news when you're up against Kane's laser phallus.

In summary, you can't just brute force your way on this map as GDI. Nod can, but at the cost of loosing their sneakiness in the tunnels.

One other balance issue I was thinking of. I can't recall hitting a mine cap yet. IS there one for proxy mines?

[MightyBOB]

We've fixed the Arty's OP-ness a little, increased the Repair Gun's healing/disarming rate, and adjusted firing speeds and damages for the AGT and Obby, among many other fixes. This topic will be locked once the patch is out since it will be a new version with new balance (new topic :3 ).

QUOTE (SIBTI @ Oct 15 2009, 05:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what if people made donations for buying a UE3license Unreal engine 3 license and for 2 lawsuits will that help?[/b]

We'll consider it if you can find a way to get us $1,000,000 USD. ($700,000 for the UE3 license, and I'm sure EA wouldn't part with the Renegade licensing rights for less than $300,000, and even then that figure is probably really low.)

[tflst5]

I don't think arties should be nerfed heavily just yet. Wait until more maps come out and we have a larger sample to experiment with. Field is notorious for being favorable to the Artillery. If anything, that map should be balanced so that Artillery does not have impenetrable positions to hide while it attacks the base. Move the War Factory further away so that NOD tanks have to get closer (and become more vunerable). That would be a better fix IMO.

Once we get to play Under and a few of the less chokey maps i think we'll know how well balanced the arts are.

[tflst5]

QUOTE (Mighty BOB! @ Oct 15 2009, 06:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We've fixed the Arty's OP-ness a little, increased the Repair Gun's healing/disarming rate, and adjusted firing speeds and damages for the AGT and Obby, among many other fixes. This topic will be locked once the patch is out since it will be a new version with new balance (new topic :3 ).


We'll consider it if you can find a way to get us $1,000,000 USD. ($700,000 for the UE3 license, and I'm sure EA wouldn't part with the Renegade licensing rights for less than $300,000, and even then that figure is probably really low.)[/b]

Haha! I can see EA jumping all over this if the mod is successful. They would make a Renegade 2. Their version of Renegade 2 would include a third of the budget going to pay Hollywood actors to star in the intro video, a third to go towards "scientific research" of the effects of tiberium harvesting on the enviroment, and the rest would go to Gamespy - to license their 15 year old netcode, because, multiplayer? who needs that? We got explosions!

I kid of course. I would buy it just to see Tricia Helfer playing Sakura. :lol: