RoundShades Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 A lot of legacy renegade servers do it, because more often you are that than something else. What do you think. Would that save more clicking more often than not? Or is it just "good feeling" to spawn as the standard autorifle soldier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RokumanZA Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 It would prob save a lot of clicking, but so used to starting a autorifle soldier now anyway, and it helps for the odd time you spawn in a building under assault by enemy infantry inside (not that engie c4 is a bad option either mind you, but it just 'feels' off) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFJake Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 A better, old idea I saw on this forum was to make you spawn as your "last used free class". But I'm fine with how it is. The default soldier is literally the worst in the game so at least it means I get to see him sometimes...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoundShades Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 A better, old idea I saw on this forum was to make you spawn as your "last used free class".But I'm fine with how it is. The default soldier is literally the worst in the game so at least it means I get to see him sometimes...! Yet he is still very threatening in combat still, compared to old renegade. He was in old, if someone took you by suprise with chain headshots out of the blue. But now, with shooter logic, an autorifle guy can easily reliably every conflict he is in strip any enemy of half their health, scoring a kill in numbers of 2-3. They are also flexible, compared to shotguns losing out long range and marksman losing out med to short range, and engi not having an unlimited supply of c4, and grenadiers/flamers doing poorly in mass against non-cluster non-chokepoint situations. I would miss him if he went, but I would also think it cool to spawn as last free class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Arts Staff Handepsilon Posted March 25, 2015 Totem Arts Staff Share Posted March 25, 2015 I just get the feeling that those classes are better if in numbers. If you see those 'worst class' guys bunching up together against you, I'm sure it will be different story. Just like the 95's RTS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFJake Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I consider the engineer, the shotgunner and the grenadier FAR better than the basic soldier. I have never been threatened by a soldier. They are not threatening, they are silly, they die to pistols while they fire their crappy automatic weapon at me. I beat them as a shotgunner, I beat them as an engineer. They are bad. Thats just me, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hadeshots Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Spawning as your last free character would be pretty good. Although saying that i don't personally mind to much spawning in as a soldier all to much, except when a code brown situation arrives and i get spawned where all the bombs/gun fire is happening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaTe Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 GDI soldier was the best free character available in the original. Anyone who disagrees never played competitively, honestly. The start of the game is the most important part, and the GDI soldier gave a big advantage to GDI. I would mow down at least 4-5 kills while defending the harvester on most maps as GDI, giving my team a huge advantage. Of course having an engineer with you was always important competitively, for killing the enemy harvester, repairing you, and c4ing buildings on some maps. But it was the soldier that defended the harvester and defended the engineers. Nod soldier was pretty useless for skilled players, as the pistol was almost as good. The GDI rifle simply destroyed infantry for any skilled player though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFJake Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 GDI soldier was the best free character available in the original. Anyone who disagrees never played competitively, honestly. The start of the game is the most important part, and the GDI soldier gave a big advantage to GDI. I would mow down at least 4-5 kills while defending the harvester on most maps as GDI, giving my team a huge advantage. Of course having an engineer with you was always important competitively, for killing the enemy harvester, repairing you, and c4ing buildings on some maps. But it was the soldier that defended the harvester and defended the engineers. Nod soldier was pretty useless for skilled players, as the pistol was almost as good. The GDI rifle simply destroyed infantry for any skilled player though. Uh, of course but, this isn't the old Renegade, and the free infantry balance is out of whack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaTe Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Yeah I know, I was just pointing out to people that they aren't useless to either game in the right hands. Also pointing it out to whoever said that they weren't too deadly in the original. They are if you know how to use them properly. As far as what character you spawn with, the soldier has always been the first character in renegade, and its always worked fine there. I think it works good the way it is, personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoundShades Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 Yeah I know, I was just pointing out to people that they aren't useless to either game in the right hands. Also pointing it out to whoever said that they weren't too deadly in the original. They are if you know how to use them properly. As far as what character you spawn with, the soldier has always been the first character in renegade, and its always worked fine there. I think it works good the way it is, personally. I said that. And you specifically mention early game. Early game, it is low lethality versus low lethality, where you have the 10+ seconds to kill the enemy. Once purchased classes come into play, its 10 second lethality versus 5 second lethality. Thus, me saying that basic infantry compared to cost infantry in original, was a huge gap. And that 5 riflemen taken on individually barely if not at all killed a 400+ character. In RenX, free infantry can now kill enemies in 2 encounters reasonably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaTe Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I could kill 9/10 sbhs in the original Renegade with a GDI soldier, even if they got the jump on me. And the laser rifle was unnecessarily good in the original. That should tell you something about just how good the gdi rifle was in the right hands... Could the problem be that body damage is too high? In Renegade, you really needed to hit the target's head to do any real damage. I know the body to head calculation in RenX is completely different. Perhaps lowering the body damage and increasing the head damage will provide skilled players what they need to be effective with the character, whilst limiting the effectiveness that a noob can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoundShades Posted March 27, 2015 Author Share Posted March 27, 2015 SBH are special. Their weapon is only slightly stronger than the Soldier, and they NEVER attacked you first. You always dropped their health 10% before they even said "i'm compromised, GO LOUD!" so even when I played when the bar was down and we were creeping down Nod tunnels in Under, I was still able to kill most SBH with a soldier. Then again, as SBH most killed me as well. Headshots land lucky, you can down a havoc, but I was mostly trying and occasionally succeeding at slipping by in plain sight as they were focusing on fighting. Harder to do without sprint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaTe Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 wat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoundShades Posted March 27, 2015 Author Share Posted March 27, 2015 wat How many headshots from an original SBH killed a havoc, how many headshots from a soldier killed a havoc, and the difference in the rate of fire was huge, you just landed more headshots because it was slower and easier to twitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaTe Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 seven headshots from a SBH. fourteen headshots from a soldier. The RoF was faster for an automatic rifle because it was worse. It had projectile bullets (meaning a velocity that wasn't instant), it took a while to reload, and it didn't do nearly as much damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarvin Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I'm surprised this issue came back up with tweaking the soldier because he is 'the worst character'. I remember that in Renegade the GDI soldier's weapon did more damage than the Nod soldier's weapon building on the notion that GDI troops are better trained and aren't viewed as expendable like Nod units are. I think the real issue with the soldier and why there's talk about switching to another class is because the soldier isn't as good as he was in the original Renegade. In the original Renegade the soldier could put up a fight against any free units. Now you're lucky if you can hold your own against a single engineer who is a support class by design. I think the whole mentality about the design of the soldier is wrong. Stats wise, yes, he is alright but in practice being effective as a soldier requires constantly trying to lead shots, strafe, duck for cover, and dodge away from anything that moves. He has become a character that only skilled players can be effective with yet is the very character that most new players would use. I brought this issue up before but the reaction was that I just wasn't doing it right and my technique was off. I took the technique advice and the soldier is somewhat useful but my point is that the soldier shouldn't need that advice to be useful in a way that allows a SUPPORT class to overshadow him so easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoundShades Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 I'm surprised this issue came back up with tweaking the soldier because he is 'the worst character'. I remember that in Renegade the GDI soldier's weapon did more damage than the Nod soldier's weapon building on the notion that GDI troops are better trained and aren't viewed as expendable like Nod units are.I think the real issue with the soldier and why there's talk about switching to another class is because the soldier isn't as good as he was in the original Renegade. In the original Renegade the soldier could put up a fight against any free units. Now you're lucky if you can hold your own against a single engineer who is a support class by design. I think the whole mentality about the design of the soldier is wrong. Stats wise, yes, he is alright but in practice being effective as a soldier requires constantly trying to lead shots, strafe, duck for cover, and dodge away from anything that moves. He has become a character that only skilled players can be effective with yet is the very character that most new players would use. I brought this issue up before but the reaction was that I just wasn't doing it right and my technique was off. I took the technique advice and the soldier is somewhat useful but my point is that the soldier shouldn't need that advice to be useful in a way that allows a SUPPORT class to overshadow him so easily. I don't agree with how ineffective he is. HOWEVER, while not agreeing with you, I noticed a trend. The autorifle is worse than a lot of other classes, and a lot of other classes have access to at least hitscan weaponry, be them situational. Even the pistol, EVEN THE MACHINEPISTOL, even the carbine. That actually raises a good idea. Should we go ahead and give the autorifle the treatment the marksman rifle got, and give it at least near-hitscan speed? I say near-hitscan because there is a VERY FINE projectile speed that is practically hitscan on even a moving infantry at mid-range (flamethrower max range), but fairly dodgeable at max range (that thing has range from walls to midfield on walls) That might be bawsome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaTe Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I think the basic infantry balance is nearly perfect. The only exception to that is the grenadier, who has too fast of a RoF as is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoundShades Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 I think the basic infantry balance is nearly perfect. The only exception to that is the grenadier, who has too fast of a RoF as is. Right now, given they have aoe, their projectiles are hitscan as far as unavoidable even from across the mesa cave. This is actually badass, but given they have that sort of straight-fire range across the entire mesa cave, id give the projectile more gravity so it is fast but arcs more serverely. At least people would have to aim up a bit? I think their rate of fire feeling high is a result of how easy it is to smack someone at long range with one now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaTe Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I think it's both. The lack of gravity really affecting it at all and the RoF combined make it be OP. I just think that RoF would be easier to edit for gameplay reasons (to that no walls have to be redone because of a higher arching grenade launcher). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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