Possible SBH nerf

[Kriemhild Gretchen]

What if it were made possible to use Q to spot invisible SBHs?

Granted, there needs to be a limit to this. Otherwise, certain people will do something like set up macros spamming Q while looking across the no-man's-land to instantly spot them. But it's quite frustrating when I spot one in base and can't alert the rest of the team due to not having voice chat. My suggestion is to only be able to use Q while within pistol range, and perhaps only after hitting them at least once.

[MajorLunaC]

Hmmm... I remember using Q on a decloaked SBH, and it still targeted him for some time, and I kept pressing Q to keep it up.

I didn't realize you couldn't target and use Q on a cloaked SBH. Damage should decloak them. If you see them at any time, you should be able to target them and use Q, just like any other unit. SBH already only show up, with the special electric animation, within a certain range of you.

[SFJake]

In the old one they flickered when shot. If they decloaked, even if it was just for a split second, allowing you to spot them when shot, I think it would be fair. But thats just me.

[Goku]

All SBH need is sprint removed. Shimmer when under fire/taking damage (including for say 1-2 seconds after damage has finished)

That's it. Removing the timed c4 will stop them being useful against GDI tanks / MRLS (unless there are derp's that get out oc)

I know its asking a lot but would be great if the devs had what ever nerf options they had in mind for the SBH as toggle options in the server config file then server owners can find their own balance.

From what I hear of the changes to the SBH (which i heard from one of the devs that play in my server) its going to ruin the SBH.

<@RX1> Alabama Ku$h [DEV]: Not dat, but we havily nerfed the sbh, no more C4, every 15 secs a red light (if they carry a nuke) which can reveal them

Don't get me wrong I appreciate what the devs are doing and that they are not paid under staffed and don't get enough caffeine but surely they could make a poll for us players to vote on what nerfs we think are fair?

Goks

[Kriemhild Gretchen]

All SBH need is sprint removed. Shimmer when under fire/taking damage (including for say 1-2 seconds after damage has finished)

That's it. Removing the timed c4 will stop them being useful against GDI tanks / MRLS (unless there are derp's that get out oc)

I know its asking a lot but would be great if the devs had what ever nerf options they had in mind for the SBH as toggle options in the server config file then server owners can find their own balance.

From what I hear of the changes to the SBH (which i heard from one of the devs that play in my server) its going to ruin the SBH.

<@RX1> Alabama Ku$h [DEV]: Not dat, but we havily nerfed the sbh, no more C4, every 15 secs a red light (if they carry a nuke) which can reveal them

Don't get me wrong I appreciate what the devs are doing and that they are not paid under staffed and don't get enough caffeine but surely they could make a poll for us players to vote on what nerfs we think are fair?

Goks

Yeah, I don't really support completely ruining the SBH like that. No C4 would eliminate their capability to destroy buildings, and a blinking light would pretty much make them useless, as the nuke would be all they had left. It takes three SBHs to blow up a building, and if you let three SBHs get into your base and kill your mines, you are at fault.

Their weapon is total crap, anyway, so if their stealth aspect is removed, they're basically going to be useless.

[ARC_trooper]

All SBH need is sprint removed. Shimmer when under fire/taking damage (including for say 1-2 seconds after damage has finished)

If they would do atleast 1 thing of this i would be happy!

<@RX1> Alabama Ku$h [DEV]: Not dat, but we havily nerfed the sbh, no more C4, every 15 secs a red light (if they carry a nuke) which can reveal them

This would suck i think (like more people), its making the sbh totally useless except for hijacking vehicles..

[SFJake]

Is this serious?

I hope this wasn't a dev. I don't like SBH being too hard to detect, but thats it.

No C4 is completely stupid. Might as well kill the game and turn it off. What an idiotic idea. Jesus.

[Kil]

There is no dev called Alabama Ku$h.

[Goku]

Well dont blame me if we ban hammer this person next time they join my server then.

[RypeL]

I coded most of the SBH but im busy, demotivated and lazy and out of the dev team atm but as far as i know SBH will get a bit more visible in general with the next patch. And if i ever find the motivation again to work on renx chances are that SBH will get more visible when shot and during sprints. Maybe Kil or someone can pick this task up aswell. If this doesent come with beta 3 i hope it will come with beta 4 wich could be a smaller but faster update then beta 3 imho.

[Goku]

Thanks for the update dude.

[RoundShades]

The better balance would come from SBH being less visible but fluctuating in visibility. I know this would be a ton more programming, so considering this is very good news reguardless of how soon it would come.

I am grateful for your feedback.

And to specify what I mean, I mean much less visible when crouched, fairly less visible when standing and walking, visible from a fair range if moving full speed non sprinting, and completely visible but with the effect even across map if sprinting. But, crouching, you would have to be within 3 person's distance to start to become visible, and regular standing and walking and crouch walking within 2 vehicles length to start being visible. A regular run would probably make you visible across the distance of neighboring structures in a base. A sprint would keep the stealth effect but that effect would be visible across the map. Make being shot raise your level by 1 for like 5 seconds, so non-sprint running is fully visible but walking and crouching is more invisible yet shows up more moderate distance. I would be okay with shooting turning stealth off entirely if for short time after being shot.

[R315r4z0r]

Removing sprint is a bad idea for continuity sake. Having one class out of all of them unable to do a global ability is just confusing.

They just need to make the stealth effect shimmer or disable completely when a SBH is sprinting. They also need to make it shimmer when a SBH takes damage or receives any heals.

And finally they have to make them detectable at a slightly longer range.

[RoundShades]

Removing sprint is a bad idea for continuity sake. Having one class out of all of them unable to do a global ability is just confusing.

They just need to make the stealth effect shimmer or disable completely when a SBH is sprinting. They also need to make it shimmer when a SBH takes damage or receives any heals.

And finally they have to make them detectable at a slightly longer range.

It isn't the worse, not to have sprint would be obvious leaving the building as usually infantry sprints to the field anyway. Or, give them sprint, and adjust their total speed where their sprint is slightly faster but almost as fast as a normal infantry run, and their run is slightly slower to a normal infantry run.

I also see heal disable cloak being a "troll a teammate" tactic.

[The Johns]

The Johns feel that a 30% increase in the visibility distance as well as making SBH shimmer when shot would bring SBH back down to their original Renegade counterparts.

[R315r4z0r]

It isn't the worse, not to have sprint would be obvious leaving the building as usually infantry sprints to the field anyway. Or, give them sprint, and adjust their total speed where their sprint is slightly faster but almost as fast as a normal infantry run, and their run is slightly slower to a normal infantry run.

I also see heal disable cloak being a "troll a teammate" tactic.

I don't understand what you're trying to say.

Also, the cloak shimmering when getting healed was like that in Renegade as well. It's important because otherwise it would just look like someone randomly firing a repair gun. The SBH should need to be in cover to receive a heal efficiently without the enemy seeing.

[RoundShades]

It isn't the worse, not to have sprint would be obvious leaving the building as usually infantry sprints to the field anyway. Or, give them sprint, and adjust their total speed where their sprint is slightly faster but almost as fast as a normal infantry run, and their run is slightly slower to a normal infantry run.

I also see heal disable cloak being a "troll a teammate" tactic.

I don't understand what you're trying to say.

Also, the cloak shimmering when getting healed was like that in Renegade as well. It's important because otherwise it would just look like someone randomly firing a repair gun. The SBH should need to be in cover to receive a heal efficiently without the enemy seeing.

Just because it was in Renegade, doesn't mean I haven't been standing around, a teammate engi runs up and heals me while I am at full health, and my head instantly explodes from a ramjet round passing through the direct center of it.

It literally happened. I was slow to react because I was stunned the idiot would do it, by time I freaked out I was already shot. I quit right then and there (ref was out and I was broke).

I am not sure I would have a good solution to it, but being seen because a teammate repairs you is a real dick move. I would suggest when health changes make stealth shimmer (that way false hits won't client-side reveal, and healing at full doesn't reveal).

[JBV3737]

All that is needed is what most major server already do, have SBH not $400 but $550, $800, I've seen one at $1000 once.

What the devs should do is simply make it adjustable per map, a map like field, sbh are nearuseless against buildings, but then a map like walls SBH are a major roll player at taking out gdi's base 90% of the time.

Simple way to balance the game's SBH:

A maps without defences should have SBH cost 100% more - double. (Walls Flying)

Additionally, Maps with minor defences (gaurd towers) should have sbh costs 50% more (Lakeside)

Or just double the cost. I'd gladly pay $800 for SBH. Just like most would pay $300 for gdi mrfarland

[DoctorB0NG]

Haha I'd gladly pay $1000 for a McFartland. I can stomp most $1000 credit characters with a McFartland, especially in the tunnels.

[SFJake]

McFarland is ridiculously overpowered and breaks the entire infantry balance by himself.

[R315r4z0r]

Just because it was in Renegade, doesn't mean I haven't been standing around, a teammate engi runs up and heals me while I am at full health, and my head instantly explodes from a ramjet round passing through the direct center of it.

It literally happened. I was slow to react because I was stunned the idiot would do it, by time I freaked out I was already shot. I quit right then and there (ref was out and I was broke).

I am not sure I would have a good solution to it, but being seen because a teammate repairs you is a real dick move. I would suggest when health changes make stealth shimmer (that way false hits won't client-side reveal, and healing at full doesn't reveal).

That's the entire reason why it should remain in the game.

You already have the ability to be invisible. If you want to stay invisible, you should be forced to play in a low profile. Getting healed should make you visible. If you want to get healed, take cover behind something first.

Healing SBHs in the field is of a larger concern than team hampering.

Also, to the people suggesting price changes... that's a bad idea. The issue with the classes goes beyond balance to the degree of enjoyment players get out of the game. If people don't enjoy playing as or against a character, then the issue has to be resolved by adjusting how the character works. Increasing the price is not only a lazy copout, but it doesn't actually fix anything. All it does is deter people away from playing the character, it doesn't actually fix it.