SS' farewell letter

[SeriousSmiley]

This critique is from someone who had played Renegade at the highest level for 5 years, from 1v1s, clanwars, sniper 1v1s, sniper servers, community wars to just general public servers. I got really excited about Renegade X when people who I used to play with/against like the H2O guys co-signed it. I was actually somewhat worried my competitive drive and self-diagnosed gaming addiction syndrome could ruin my last year of postgrad studies.

Now, I've always thought that pretty much everything about Renegade was flawed except for the core game mode and the balance, so this is not the typical salty "I just wanted Renegade HD" critique. Basically, I wanted C&C mode in a balanced arcade shooter without the W3D engine clunkyness...and I really thought this was it based on the previews. The bugs are certainly irritating. Random mapchange crashes, vehicles with Parkinson's, the terrible server browser...irritating, but I expected this from a beta.

My main issue with this game and the reason I'm quitting after only 3 days and likely won't come back is that it feels like it's made by people who don't "get" multi player FPS. This game feels flawed at it's core.

I've been awarded MVP in most of the games that I didn't spend trying out characters/vehicles or getting an overview of the map...but I have hardly experienced any really rewarding moments. The problem is that for a game that wants to be better than the dumbed-down modern console FPS, most of the guns are either a) spray-and-pray or b) splash damage or c) homing. The homing weapons are now a hard counter type weapon against certain vehicles, but you never feel like you did anything particularly skillful to deserve the kill. Using a light tank in Renegade to take out Orcas that got too close just made you feel special, as did taking out a Sakura with the Orca's MG from long range or ambushing an Orca with an Apache from above. Using splash damage to goad an expensive infantry unit into walking into a direct shell to the face with a Med Tank felt awesome, now you're better off with a few easy shots to their feet. The only infantry weapon I'm actually enjoying is the standard pistol, simply because it's accurate, the headshot animation is hilarious and it rewards good tactical movement and aim like no other. However, in the hands of a good player it's absolutely overpowered, it's like playing Renegade with host advantage due to the smoother movement in Renegade X. It would be overpowered even against the original Renegade weapons, but for some reason the devs thought it would be smart to add some extra bullet spread and longer reload times to a lot of those weapons. The only other gun that got a comparative buff is the SBH rifle, as if that unit needed to be any more effective. I'm confident that I can kill any player 1on1 with a SBH if I get the drop on them...taking 1000 credit characters down to half health before they can react is absolutely insane, how did this get past the closed beta? The low skill ceiling due to the spread and/or bullet travel mean that 2 regular free soldiers can now easily take down most of the more expensive anti-infantry units at close & medium range, what a great investment!

My other main issue with this game's direction is the art. Don't get me wrong, it looks amazing, especially the environmental assets and people somehow created this in their spare time. The problem is, the art direction is fitting for a single player campaign, not an arcade multi player shooter. I remember Valve explaining how they made sure even the silhouettes of each class in TF2 were easily distinguishable, the Renegade X devs don't seem like the kind of people who could've thought of that. The classes are a little harder to distinguish than in Renegade, but that's only a minor issue. The major problem is going for eye candy over functionality. Frost on my screen? Seriously? Is this supposed to immerse me while I'm hopping about in my diabolical stormtrooper cosplay outfit? High grass that you can turn off in the settings to make it seem like you're cheating? Fog, dust and extreme lens flares obstructing your vision as if that somehow added depth to gameplay instead of merely annoyance? C'mon...the entire game looks like a talented artist was showing off for a vanity project. What this game needed was an artist adding his distinctive lines to a supercar designed by an engineer with a windtunnel in mind. Car analogies rule..

Here's a list of minor issues that can be fixed or I might be wrong about because I haven't played enough:

- Nod has no way of dealing with Mammoths and Hotwires on maps without aircraft head on due to the Artillery's pitiful splash. It's easy for a good GDI team to defend against Nod's remaining tactics at that point.

- Artillery has a weird auto aim that makes you shoot higher when aiming at a target. This might be easier for newbies, but it also leads to situations where it's actually impossible to hit a tank in your line of sight on close to level ground at specific ranges.

- Field could be massively improved by putting the silo in the tunnels instead. It should be obvious why.

- Airstrikes need to be a lot more expensive and/or have their massive radius nerfed.

- Aircraft needs to descend/ascend quicker.

- Vehicles in general feel so much clunkier than in UT3 and those feel hardly different than in UT200fucking4. I really thought we'd at least get an improvement in that area. With the current issue of vehicles getting stuck on objects and each other, it's actually a downgrade from Renegade.

- Lakeside is too large, it just doesn't fit in with the rest of the mapcycle.

- Countdown needs to reach 0 when the beacon has been fully activated, not the current 10.

- Sprinting is retarded in a game where most weapons have bullet travel.

- The bots have insane stealth detection.

This is it, my longest and probably last post on a Renegade forum. At least the other class-based arcade shooter with 2 asymmetrical teams that was released this week is way better than expected. PvZ: Garden Warfare, motherfuckers!

In loving memory of Spoony's fingers, this one's for you!

[Volcom]

Well a lot of the stuff you mentioned is why it was brought to open beta. Bigger games and more people help for these issues to come out. A lot of the things you mentioned are in the process of being fixed so I wouldn't give up on it quite yet. For now come play some clanwars with Whiskey, Kill, and I. You'll get a better feel for it and I am sure have much more fun. Anyways I'll hit you up on steam in a few hours.

[RoundShades]

I have already snuck in an airstrip as hotwire and insta-c4-killed it while we were losing from an early ref loss in islands, and pulled that game into a win all at the applause of my 4 Realm clanmates playing with me.

This game is highly rewarding.

So far, there have also been bugs, timed c4 that don't diffuse and blow up destroying buildings, beacons even more rarely do the same, some weapons act clunky... HOWEVER, so far for a beta it has been a fun experience. Just needs tweaking.

I honestly think what you might be experiencing, is the new player flux and how that seems to lower the skill of the game. A lot of games I play in seem to drag forever when my base has only 1 structure, like how can GDI not kill it? It is because the enemy doesn't know how to coordinate to secure the kill. Players don't communicate together as well as Renegade.

THE REASON: Renegade is a 12 year old game. The only people still playing it obviously have some form of dedication. They are more likely to be skilled and communicative. The players here, they just play it, no communication or cooperation, they just play and go as it goes. Really, players can learn to develop better communication and tactical cooperation skills, thats the real answer.

Just either find a group so you can play in higher-skillcap games with experienced people, or encourage advancement for newer players in their understanding of Renegade.

Generally, I hope you give it a try at least every few patches, this game is beta and if I damn anyone it is the playerbase that leaves a game in it's beta without ever giving it the time to develop. All that does is encourage close betas and "to hell with players playing in beta because they just play and ditch and demote the game afterwards", and I don't want to live in a world like that, I at least keep in touch with patch notes for a game until it releases.

[super_gsx]

It is a beta you know. Most of these things can be altered or fixed if enough people agree with you.

[Terekhov]

This critique is from someone who had played Renegade at the highest level for 5 years, from 1v1s, clanwars, sniper 1v1s, sniper servers, community wars to just general public servers. I got really excited about Renegade X when people who I used to play with/against like the H2O guys co-signed it. I was actually somewhat worried my competitive drive and self-diagnosed gaming addiction syndrome could ruin my last year of postgrad studies.

Now, I've always thought that pretty much everything about Renegade was flawed except for the core game mode and the balance, so this is not the typical salty "I just wanted Renegade HD" critique. Basically, I wanted C&C mode in a balanced arcade shooter without the W3D engine clunkyness...and I really thought this was it based on the previews. The bugs are certainly irritating. Random mapchange crashes, vehicles with Parkinson's, the terrible server browser...irritating, but I expected this from a beta.

My main issue with this game and the reason I'm quitting after only 3 days and likely won't come back is that it feels like it's made by people who don't "get" multi player FPS. This game feels flawed at it's core.

I've been awarded MVP in most of the games that I didn't spend trying out characters/vehicles or getting an overview of the map...but I have hardly experienced any really rewarding moments. The problem is that for a game that wants to be better than the dumbed-down modern console FPS, most of the guns are either a) spray-and-pray or b) splash damage or c) homing. The homing weapons are now a hard counter type weapon against certain vehicles, but you never feel like you did anything particularly skillful to deserve the kill. Using a light tank in Renegade to take out Orcas that got too close just made you feel special, as did taking out a Sakura with the Orca's MG from long range or ambushing an Orca with an Apache from above. Using splash damage to goad an expensive infantry unit into walking into a direct shell to the face with a Med Tank felt awesome, now you're better off with a few easy shots to their feet. The only infantry weapon I'm actually enjoying is the standard pistol, simply because it's accurate, the headshot animation is hilarious and it rewards good tactical movement and aim like no other. However, in the hands of a good player it's absolutely overpowered, it's like playing Renegade with host advantage due to the smoother movement in Renegade X. It would be overpowered even against the original Renegade weapons, but for some reason the devs thought it would be smart to add some extra bullet spread and longer reload times to a lot of those weapons. The only other gun that got a comparative buff is the SBH rifle, as if that unit needed to be any more effective. I'm confident that I can kill any player 1on1 with a SBH if I get the drop on them...taking 1000 credit characters down to half health before they can react is absolutely insane, how did this get past the closed beta? The low skill ceiling due to the spread and/or bullet travel mean that 2 regular free soldiers can now easily take down most of the more expensive anti-infantry units at close & medium range, what a great investment!

My other main issue with this game's direction is the art. Don't get me wrong, it looks amazing, especially the environmental assets and people somehow created this in their spare time. The problem is, the art direction is fitting for a single player campaign, not an arcade multi player shooter. I remember Valve explaining how they made sure even the silhouettes of each class in TF2 were easily distinguishable, the Renegade X devs don't seem like the kind of people who could've thought of that. The classes are a little harder to distinguish than in Renegade, but that's only a minor issue. The major problem is going for eye candy over functionality. Frost on my screen? Seriously? Is this supposed to immerse me while I'm hopping about in my diabolical stormtrooper cosplay outfit? High grass that you can turn off in the settings to make it seem like you're cheating? Fog, dust and extreme lens flares obstructing your vision as if that somehow added depth to gameplay instead of merely annoyance? C'mon...the entire game looks like a talented artist was showing off for a vanity project. What this game needed was an artist adding his distinctive lines to a supercar designed by an engineer with a windtunnel in mind. Car analogies rule..

Here's a list of minor issues that can be fixed or I might be wrong about because I haven't played enough:

- Nod has no way of dealing with Mammoths and Hotwires on maps without aircraft head on due to the Artillery's pitiful splash. It's easy for a good GDI team to defend against Nod's remaining tactics at that point.

- Artillery has a weird auto aim that makes you shoot higher when aiming at a target. This might be easier for newbies, but it also leads to situations where it's actually impossible to hit a tank in your line of sight on close to level ground at specific ranges.

- Field could be massively improved by putting the silo in the tunnels instead. It should be obvious why.

- Airstrikes need to be a lot more expensive and/or have their massive radius nerfed.

- Aircraft needs to descend/ascend quicker.

- Vehicles in general feel so much clunkier than in UT3 and those feel hardly different than in UT200fucking4. I really thought we'd at least get an improvement in that area. With the current issue of vehicles getting stuck on objects and each other, it's actually a downgrade from Renegade.

- Lakeside is too large, it just doesn't fit in with the rest of the mapcycle.

- Countdown needs to reach 0 when the beacon has been fully activated, not the current 10.

- Sprinting is retarded in a game where most weapons have bullet travel.

- The bots have insane stealth detection.

This is it, my longest and probably last post on a Renegade forum. At least the other class-based arcade shooter with 2 asymmetrical teams that was released this week is way better than expected. PvZ: Garden Warfare, motherfuckers!

In loving memory of Spoony's fingers, this one's for you!

Great post. Hope you stick around / pop in once improvements have been made.

[HaTe]

Id have to agree on the graphics and velocity of weapons parts in particular. Almost too much graphical interference. Gameplay should triumph realism and looks in a renegade based game. The current graphics make it seem like priorities were elsewhere. They are beautiful and well designed, but not for a multiplayer game, as mentioned. Too much interference for the players is just a huge hinderence.

The velocity is lower than it is in renegade. When you add the sprint feature, it essentially made it a double Nerf to infantry vs infantry combat. There needs to be some sort of "start up sprint speed" to make the sprint not so instantly fast. There also needs to be some sort of edit to strafing while sprinting. Currently, you change direction from one angle to the next instantly. Please make a cutting animation that takes a fraction of a second while sprinting in order to change direction. The characters are far too agile. Sprinting should also have its negative impacts as well, besides that of not being able to shoot. Please add the startup sprint speed (meaning sprinting gradually increases to its max speed over a couple of seconds), as well as the "cut/strafe" animation and delay.

[chaossound]

Id have to agree on the graphics and velocity of weapons parts in particular. Almost too much graphical interference. Gameplay should triumph realism and looks in a renegade based game. The current graphics make it seem like priorities were elsewhere. They are beautiful and well designed, but not for a multiplayer game, as mentioned. Too much interference for the players is just a huge hinderence.

The velocity is lower than it is in renegade. When you add the sprint feature, it essentially made it a double Nerf to infantry vs infantry combat. There needs to be some sort of "start up sprint speed" to make the sprint not so instantly fast. There also needs to be some sort of edit to strafing while sprinting. Currently, you change direction from one angle to the next instantly. Please make a cutting animation that takes a fraction of a second while sprinting in order to change direction. The characters are far too agile. Sprinting should also have its negative impacts as well, besides that of not being able to shoot. Please add the startup sprint speed (meaning sprinting gradually increases to its max speed over a couple of seconds), as well as the "cut/strafe" animation and delay.

You were a phase 3 beta tester, why did you not bring any of this up during testing

[HaTe]

Id have to agree on the graphics and velocity of weapons parts in particular. Almost too much graphical interference. Gameplay should triumph realism and looks in a renegade based game. The current graphics make it seem like priorities were elsewhere. They are beautiful and well designed, but not for a multiplayer game, as mentioned. Too much interference for the players is just a huge hinderence.

The velocity is lower than it is in renegade. When you add the sprint feature, it essentially made it a double Nerf to infantry vs infantry combat. There needs to be some sort of "start up sprint speed" to make the sprint not so instantly fast. There also needs to be some sort of edit to strafing while sprinting. Currently, you change direction from one angle to the next instantly. Please make a cutting animation that takes a fraction of a second while sprinting in order to change direction. The characters are far too agile. Sprinting should also have its negative impacts as well, besides that of not being able to shoot. Please add the startup sprint speed (meaning sprinting gradually increases to its max speed over a couple of seconds), as well as the "cut/strafe" animation and delay.

You were a phase 3 beta tester, why did you not bring any of this up during testing

I did. I brought up many things, but in the end they were just one guys opinion. The current release is an open beta, and so it means that more people are able to see and understand my points.

For private beta testing, the focus was mostly on fixing the glitches. The problem was that for every one that got fixed, it seemed like a new one popped up somewhere. So the focus was on fixing any and all major gameplay bugs that would turn people away immediately. Unfortunately, a few were overlooked or came up too late for the devs to create any last second fixes to. That's why the current release is an open beta. Most things are subject to change, and many things likely will.

[cirex]

Id have to agree on the graphics and velocity of weapons parts in particular. Almost too much graphical interference. Gameplay should triumph realism and looks in a renegade based game. The current graphics make it seem like priorities were elsewhere. They are beautiful and well designed, but not for a multiplayer game, as mentioned. Too much interference for the players is just a huge hinderence.

The velocity is lower than it is in renegade. When you add the sprint feature, it essentially made it a double Nerf to infantry vs infantry combat. There needs to be some sort of "start up sprint speed" to make the sprint not so instantly fast. There also needs to be some sort of edit to strafing while sprinting. Currently, you change direction from one angle to the next instantly. Please make a cutting animation that takes a fraction of a second while sprinting in order to change direction. The characters are far too agile. Sprinting should also have its negative impacts as well, besides that of not being able to shoot. Please add the startup sprint speed (meaning sprinting gradually increases to its max speed over a couple of seconds), as well as the "cut/strafe" animation and delay.

You were a phase 3 beta tester, why did you not bring any of this up during testing

All testers that are still tester are tester because they have done their job right. You never can find all issues till it is played 24/7. The resources this project has (no investments, no paid coders) make it hard to deliver a clean game on the first open beta. Also a project build without investments need to prioritize their focus, and then there is still something like "one opinion" or "real issue". If you look to beta phase One and the current built, then there is certainly a lot changed because of the testers feedback.

Don't blame the testers, don't blame the devs. please blame yourself for being inpatient.