lawANDorder

@SilentKnight Thanks I actually came from this topic. Nevermind my shitposting.

Presence of 1337-sniper still decides over win or loss, like it always has been. Games are usually heavily unbalanced/stacked: most of the time the Allstar-team plays vs the Noobs/bad players with shitty aim/stupid people like me (sorry I just can't git gud but I accepted to be a maggoty subhuman creature compared to you godlike players). Great commander features offer the illusion to the maggoty subhuman players that they might be able to win a round. This bittersweet hope made the game more fun to play for me. The players of devine descent will always rule the game. For all the others, while they serve the main purpose of their existence, growing a head that can then be shot by our loved Gods, the commander feature introduced neat additions that establish the illusion of being an important part of every game. I like it.

Sorry @j0g32, @DarkSn4ke my admittedly not very valuable last post was intended to highlight what you had written, by "this" i meant i agree with it completely. Edit: Thanks for the interesting and constructive discussion, I really appreciate it. Had some troublesome days, sorry @poi ❄ and @all for bad manners.

This. As already pointed out there are many players complaining for several different reasons. To say, stop complaining, "git gud" won't solve the problems that cause the bad game experience in the first place for those players. I'm disgusted by the prevailing opinion that complaints are the root problem. I will adapt nontheless. There is no teamstacking. The game is not decided by only a few. Player counts didn't drop. Everything is great. If you want to complain please stfu and gtfo. /thread

If the topic is useless you don't need to reply to it. If you do so, show some respect. The post's intention was not to complain about poi but to talk about an abstract aspect that I wanted to discuss (which means I have an idea that I would like to talk about without claiming it is a fact). It's true that I do dislike you but this is a thing that comes with your attitude and is not bound to your or anyone's ability to point and click on stuff. Sorry sweetheart. @limsup I agree with you, that's why I said or we reduce the relevance of their actions for the affected players." and generally suggested to Encourage and focus on "teamplay" and communication because As @poi ❄ noted the psychological impact is what spoils the game. It should be possible to decrease the relevance of being killed many times by adding/encourage opportunities to act as team ("active measure") and hiding the stats relating to this ("passive measure"). I agree there has to be a niche for "Killers" but the moment this niche becomes the most relevant feature in the game (my assumption) and thus primary motivation to play you can forget about the teamwork stuff and as a result watch the game dying.

Adjusted title

Under is one of the few maps where snipers are of exceptional insignificance. Show me any other map (except mesa) and we are talking. Edit: If you want to show me how @Minji goes to town to disprove the huge influence of certain snipers - that doesn't work.

I have a different opinion. Even in PUGs @poi ❄ makes the difference (just to name one of these exceptionally skilled "Killers"). I think you underestimate the factual and especially social effects I stated in a post above these players cause. Big IMO because I can't prove it.

I read your post but don't know how to answer it without derailing the thread into "Tanks > Snipers" or "FU LOOSER TEAM!!11!". Edit: @DarkSn4ke You're right about the thing that I can't prove my basic assumption that certain players decide the outcome of a match. This makes my thesis indeed very vulnerable

If this is your conclusion I really have to work on how to express myself. Thanks for the feedback.

It is indeed a very restrictive proposal. I just don't see those stats fit into the game, they do not tell if you are a valuable player and serve the only purpose of boost the stated players egos while frustrating those at the recieving end. Satisfaction should derive from winning the game not how many kills you got while playing it. Hope to see you back soon. You're right, it doesn't directly help to "fix" things (although I tried to keep it abstract to not find myself complaining about players or playstyles.) My intention was to point out how the current state of the game affects those different players and why this is a thing (imo). I hoped those who read it would be able to come up with better analysis of the causes and better ideas on how to actually improve things than i could. Food for thought of smarter people than I am. The effects do not only result from game mechanics but also from psychological factors like frustration of dominated players. A game that requires teamwork can't be won by a team of frustrated and angry players. That's my point. We need to mitigate the negative effects these dominating players cause. So we either take away their ability to dominate (can't imagine how this could be done) or we reduce the relevance of their actions for the affected players. You have to see both effects: The dominating players certainly affect the game directly to some point. Besides this factual direct effect those players cause an indirect social effect: the dominated players will get frustrated which affects their and their team's gameplay negatively and as a result amplify both effects reciprocal. Thats what I meant when I compared it with famous sneaking players like @Quincy is for example: they had a major factual direct effect on the game but only a minimal negative social effect on individual enemy players. If he managed to sneak threw you knew your team including yourself wasn't alert which is a thing you would try to to improve and thus would communicate with your team. I agree, like I said before I intended to make those who think about changes or additions consider the perspective given in this post.

Hello Renegade X community, wall of text incoming! I would like to share my thoughts about the current situation with you. My thesis is that the external and internal changes done to the game have shifted the game's character away from the niche Renegade X filled successfully to a general segment where its unique assets are subordinate and insignificant. The result are decreasing player counts and lessened game experience. To elaborate this we could try to describe the game itself before and after the to be defined effects that caused this shift, however it seems to be more practical to focus on the player motivations and needs which constitute the mentioned niche in the first place and ask in a next step, if these motivations and needs are still satisfied by the game. This leads to the following questions: What playertypes are primarily attracted by Renegade X? Which game elements cause the attraction to these playertypes? What constitutes these game elements and why are they significant? What distiguishes Renegade X from other games? Without any doubts do the devs know the answers to these questions, how else could they develop a successful game. Having said that I would like to try to answer the questions very briefly from my point of view: Player-types can be classified by the Bartle taxonomy of player types (better description, see page 17, table 3) while their motivations can be explained by Yee’s Motivational Facets (see page 8 f.). Although Bartle and Yee focused on MMORPG's for their studies, the classification of player-types and subsumption of motivations is not limited to these type of games but applicable to most single and multiplayer games. As it is very hard to find out the dominating taxonomy of player-types it seems to be more practical to explain the attracted player-types following Yee's approach. From my personal experience the only relevant motivations to play Renegade X are based on the factors "Relationship", "Grief", "Achievement" and "Leadership". I would sort them into the following order: L, R, A, G. this means: the players attracted by Renegade X primarily prefer to group rather than solo (L), secondarily make good friends online, and tend to have meaningful conversations with their online friends (R), have only a slight desire to feel "powerful" (A) and gain little satisfaction from taunting and annoying other players (G). So why is that? The game mechanics itself encourage player interaction (which R and L are all about) in many different ways. The weekly PUG is a good example to show why R and L are what Renegade X is about. Game elements that feature interaction are the whole chat and spotting system, the requirement to take care of other player's tanks or your own base, the voting system and basically the assumption, that you can not win a game on your own but only as a team which requires communication. By implication this means that even a team of bad players can win a game if their R and L is superior to the team that is made up of individually good players. Generally speaking, the dependency on your team and the nonexistence of independent personal goals and achievements offer a challenge that fits the LRAG motivation perfectly. Partly answered above. Not important for this post Does this represent the gameplay at the current state? No. The main reason why Renegade doesn't satisfy LRAG at its current state is in my opinion the phenomena, that certain players have such an influence on the outcome of a game, that the desire for R will not be satisfied as it is not a requirement anymore which undermines the development of L. I'm speaking of those very skilled players that primarily play the game to get very high killstreaks and high kill-death-ratio, those who belong primarily to the "Killers"/"Achievers" taxonomy because of their primary motivation of "Grief" and "Achievement". Some time ago there have been players that sneaked into bases and also had a very big influence on the outcome of a game (you rarely see them in public servers anymore). This rarely happens now due to the bigger server population which makes sneaking nearly impossible. The difference is, that their actions affected the enemy team as a whole while the players that dominate the servers now cause pain to individual players (and dominate one each of them) but so effectively, that the whole team suffers from it. This makes a huge difference at the receiving end and contradicts the assumption from above that you can not win a game on your own but only as a team. Furthermore, "Killers" are those who have least interest in communication as their motivation is independent from what happens to the team. Also the other players will not be able to identify with the dominating player's success and accept his or her leadership, if this player has no interest in L and R. To summerize it: The ability of a certain player to decide the outcome of a game contradicts the satisfaction of other player's motivations, if the dominating player's motivation is primarily based on contrarily factors (grief or achievement). Personal proposals to mitigate this effect There is no "good" or "bad" player-type and there is no "right" or "wrong" motivation. But there is a niche this game fits into and we should try to get it back into this niche. I don't think that we should alter weapon stats or anything like this, we need to lower the attraction for player-types or motivations that doesn't fit to the game and increase the attraction for those, who are the main target group. By taking away the achievements, the "Achiever" will not be attracted anymore. By not showing the domination to others, the Griefer doesn't feel like he is dominating anymore. Humans are easy to manipulate. Delete Kills, Deaths, K/D from the scoreboard and from global stats. This greatly affects their main psychological motivation: to feel great and to dominate others. Improve team-balance: Modify the "Switch team" mechanism so that players can't join the team with those game-changing players at start resulting in heavily stacked teams. Think about other mechanisms to balance the teams based on the player skills. Encourage and focus on "teamplay" and communication (the commander mod even if it was buggy was a great addition and many liked it). In other words: MAKE RENEGADE X GREAT AGAIN! Thank you for reading.

I decided to quit playing renX, thank you all for the good games and have fun.

PUG was fun GG

OT question from a law student: does the muslim law have paragraphs like a lawtext or is it more like that those rules are extracted from "stories" in the quoran?