Kakashi

Using the torrent... all the other mirrors are either down or crawl along even slower. You can consider me a seeder btw, my upload is bigger than my dl . Guess I'll play sometime tomorrow, but at least I can pause this dl properly.

If more overall points are earned the losing team gets more of an error margin, huh? Sounds intriguing...

I would not mind having an actual draw situation be considered a draw, no matter if building kills or points do count. Just a little incentive for both teams to try and get the upper hand. By draw I mean situations where both teams are really close to each other points/destruction-wise. The line at which it is still considered a draw could/should be dependant on the team size, too, so smaller teams don't have to cover as big a rift as bigger ones (this mainly goes for the points system, though).

Hmm... I am a fan of having different variants of gametypes, and this could possibly change the way a map is played a lot without doing anything to gameplay itself.

Points draw C&C mode closer to be a killing and some more killing gamemode, though. Having to worry about making so and so many points with your unit until it redeems its worth can be pretty distracting, too.

"Nod would also gladly sacifice a few dozen of their best men if it would destroy the enemies ion cannon control." I put this into quotation marks because they are beside the point. The whole point of winning conditions is trying to define what a player or team has to achieve in order to win. c&c mode is derivated from rts gameplay, thus we can assume that its goal is to either destroy the base or cripple the opponent economically to the point where he has to give up. In Ren there is no way to actually dry up the unit flow, seeing how there are plenty of useful free characters, which is why I suggest making the buildings the counting factor. Making the points the deciding factor splits the goal of the gamemode into as many subgoals as there are ways to earn points, also splitting the attention of the team. I think this goal would fit better with team deathmatch styled maps. As for players banding together for epic team defenses, I am not entirely sure you can account that towards teamplay alone. The game does give pretty powerful defender boni, after all. Besides the usual defenders advantage of being able to wait for the enemy to come to them, being able to prepare in the meantime you have the fact that you spawn close to the objective you have to defend and are able to easily refill, change class or buy a new vehicle there. Also, the more buildings you lose the more you can concentrate your forces around the buildings left. Not to mention many classic Renegade maps support defenders by only providing few, easy to overlook passages into the bases.

I also know about people that leave a game when the point rift between the teams becomes "too big" for their tastes. The situation you are describing is going pretty much into an extreme. If one team is left with one building while the other team has a complete base winning is usually just a matter of time. Even if we consider your points system where the team that destroyed a building gets extra "team points" the rift between the two teams would have gotten so big that the defenders could not prevent their defeat. If the current points system still permits the defending team to win this kind of situation they reward the team that managed to make less progress for "dying less". After all the many deaths of the attacking players that gave the enemy those points are what made the building destructions possible in the first place. It is not very rewarding for a player to have helped kill multiple structures and be decided a loser just because the enemy managed to bust hist tank a few dozen times when he was assaulting those buildings or distracting the enemy.

I do not need to see my points or k/d all the time while playing, not having to open another screen to see what your tank rush mates hide inside their tanks is something I would feel more comfortable with. I do not judge players by their points or kills/deaths at all. It usually doesn't take long to determine their capabilites. Judging by those values is pretty vague anyways as those cannot reflect everything that happens in a game. It only shows that a player gained those points/kills/deaths, but not how it actually happened. I like your idea of being able to swap between stats and units composition information. If we can have both that's alright, too. By no means I want to pry stats away from the screen. Being able to epically push back lots of enemies with only a few of your own units is indeed quite rewarding, but assuming neither side managed to obliberate the enemy base it would still be a stalemate. Should the team that had fewer losses and made more points be awarded or the one that actually managed to sneak into the enemy base and kill their refinery? Personally, since C&C mode is about base destruction I would prefer the building kill to decide the winner. I do not mean to insult the achievements of the defending team by this, I just want the goal to match the gamemode a bit better. I'll try to pry open some time the next weekend and catch some actual gameplay. If you say that there are not many stalemates in timed games that makes me happy. There is nothing more boring than not being able to finish your job just cause nobody wants to lose their tank till the timer runs out. I do think that the playerbase has a lot influence on that matter as well, though.

I actually wanted to reinstall RenX and have a few plays before suggesting this, but I feel like I'll forget half of it before I find the time. Please excuse me if any of my assumptions about current RenX mp gameplay are wrong. While I did not play that much Ren I played lots of APB in the past and realized that one (actually two slightly related) thing(s) was(were) extremely annoying about Renegade and it's mods, which are the information displayed in the stats overlay (the one you can see and expand in the top rightern corner of the HUD) and the badly designed "winning conditions". I assume that vanilla Renegade suffers from similar problems thanks to those two features so I figured I could suggest about improving them for RenX, too. I had played 0.55 some time when it came out, but I cannot exactly recall what information the stats overlay displayed. Thus I just assume that it is money, k/d and points just like it is in Ren. First off, being sorted in a ranking having your stats and k/d constantly shown in front of you promotes the general player to pointwhore. This is not in the least helpful, neither are points, rank or k/d really needed to be seen in the game. If I recall correctly you can also open a menu that shows the infantry class and vehicle of you friendly teammates. My suggestion would be to "swap" those informations with those currently shown in the overlay. In clean sentences: The overlay information should show your teammates, their current cash value, their character, their vehicle type (if they ride any), information about players seated in the same vehicle as you (i.e. so APC drivers can see who rides along as passenger) and maybe even their respective health stats (maybe by highlighting their character/vehicle status with a background color or by adding a small health bar). This is the kind of information that is actually helpful in combat, and as such would fit better as something directly on the screen. STats and k/d could still be acessed by pushig a button. Then, considering winning conditions: I do know that there are two ways to play standard C&C mode, them being with or without timelimit. As far as I remember this has not been changed in RenX. A game without timelimit is obviously determined by base destruction. A game with timelimit, however, is only determined by base destruction if either team is quick on their feet or if the difference in strenght is big enough. Otherwise the win is determined solely by points. A scenario where boh teams have a more or less intact base is a lot more common. Points, however are not quite reliable as way to choose a winning team. Thus, I would suggest that if there is no definite winner by base destruction the game decides the victor by how many structures have been destroyed. Each structure would have an assigned "value" for this, i.e. base defenses are worth .5 points, support structures are worth 1 point, production structures are worth 2 points etc (note that those values are just an example). If one team managed to destroy more enemy buildings than the other it is deided to be the winner. If both teams destroyed the same number of buildings it is a draw. Additionaly, if both teams ONLY destroyed base defenses and no "core buildings" it is also a draw, even if one team has destroyed more base defenses than the other. The game resulting in a draw is a lot less satisfactory than a clean win. Putting in this kind of logic for C&C mode games gives regular players an incentive to "risk their neck" going into the enemy base to kill a structure. Without changing the weapons and units themselves, fights might become faster and more exciting. I hope I make sense, kinda in a hurry. Class starting in two minuts .