[Beta 4 Preliminary Changelist]

"team play is the game core design and anti-stomp anti-snowball mechanic"

Simply speaking: If strangers play on pub servers there is no teamplay. Which is why there better be something else aswell.

People like you who have played, like you stated, one game for a very long period of time obviously like it and got used to it. I am old enough to have whitnessed it on multiple iterations of franchises that people give the new game shit just cause it wasent like the old game. That happens pretty much every time and everywhere a new game comes out. For example a lot of players that didnt play old ren are complaining that it actually takes too long to kill in Ren-X. Cause in almost every modern game people die from like 2 shots. So whos right here ? Neither.

As Ren never had that much players aswell and is very different in killtimes etc to other modern shooters making Ren-X just a copy of Ren would probably just be another path for Ren-X to death. ... however you look at it: its a complex situation. Just copying Ren or getting too far away from it, neither would be best. At the end what it comes down to is that the game needs to make fun. And im sure we have work left to do there. But as long as theres still people playing we probably wont give up trying. And dont forget that we are completly opening Ren-X to the modding community with Beta 4. There is nothing stopping the people that think we are on a totally wrong direction to steer Ren-X into another direction with modifications.

It's probably just me, but I get worked up when people disrespect this whole project. Maybe they're just trying to get a rise out of others on the forums, but to completely disregard the extreme amount of effort put into this whole endeavor is beyond me and I think those who choose to talk smack should just stick to original Ren or migrate to another community that mirrors their maturity.

Nonetheless, Rype, you and the rest of the team handle it well. You bring up a lot of good points about the direction you want Renegade-X to go. I think it's important to listen to veteran ren players who want to keep its unique mechanics in place, but also give newer players their fair say. For example, a writer at PCGamer outlines good points with their critical analysis of why they don't like Renegade X as it stands; because that's speaking from outside the immediate community of frequent players. I feel as though that kind of feedback is incredibly valuable.

And you're right, there's a reason original renegade did not have a huge playerbase; there are a lot of awkward mechanics in renegade x today that most players overlook, but are glaring through the lense of a new player. I am glad you guys are trying to address them.

When Renegade X is ready for "release" or Steam or whatever medium of mainstream, I'm sure we'll have a game that both veteran and new players will enjoy. Keep it up.

EDIT: When I say "Talk Smack" or "disrespect" I don't mean constructive criticism, but much the opposite; when players on the forums draw from their instinctual fervor for the game and don't filter themselves to promote discussion

[New video is live! check it out! :)]

This was awesome. Really captures the crazy gameplay of Renx. Look forward to more

[Beta 4 Preliminary Changelist]

To prevent multi weapon combos our current plan is to only allow you to pick up one weapon. Once you pick up another one it replaces the weapon you´ve previously picked up.

Not bad! I was worried about characters with every weapon becoming completely omnipotent but this eases my fears.

[Beta 4 Preliminary Changelist]

Nobody should want that. Not even devs So ya we actually havent thought about that thus far but now that you mentioned it we sure will add something against that.

Also we currently want the weapondrop option to not solely drop weapons. It can drop a 25% ammo resupply or a 50hp armor or health resupply (like the ones you can pick up in Black Dawn). So you can either get a weapon OR a resupply item OR nothing at all. Im personally not sure about ammo etc resupplys beeing dropped but if we will keep it will depend on your feedback.

I am VERY interested in this mechanic. I would like to stress the discussion of health and ammo sustainability.

Good infantry players should be rewarded for their skill with these health/ammo drops. Instead, if you run out of ammo as patch or laser gunner while in the field, it's tough luck. Either suicide or run back to base.

Also, the above mentioned classes are nothing more than a mere annoyance when played offensively. They will run out of ammo and health far quicker than their credit justification would imply.

[Beta 4 Preliminary Changelist]

I'm still very against the ramjet getting taken away from sak and havok as the main weapon, as well as shifting anti-light away to other weapons. This is iconic stuff that's getting changed and is a standard in the game. Is it that much of a game breaker that the ramjet one shots free inf? What about making officer classes still purchasable when bar is down then

That proposition has been brought up many times and I still think it's viable. Officer and rocket soldier would be fine I think. Maybe increase their cost if bar is down.

[Beta 4 Preliminary Changelist]

Added bAllowWeaponDrop serversetting

Does this mean I might see SBH snipers on Tmx or EKT?

[Beta 4 Preliminary Changelist]

I'm seeing a few people suggesting removing ramjets, would you guys be open to that idea? I'm not sure how people who prefer snipers would feel about that, specifically talking to you Bananas.

Now you're not just opening the can of worms, you're shredding it in half with a chainsaw! I would expect a lot of initial backlash to the idea since it is a "sacred original renegade weapon".

Honestly, I think this idea could potentially work if we can hammer out some community dialogue. Here are some of my initial thoughts on how this might work:

1. Commandos that are actually Commandos

Havoc, the renegade mascot, doesn't function like the traditional Command and Conquer commando. Extra long range anti-light vehicle/infantry wasn't necessarily the staple description. Mid-Range badass with over-the-top destructive capabilities sounds a bit more appropiate. I am curious to see how this could be approached in the future.

2. Premium Sniper

In the hypothetical scenario of Ramjets removal, that would leave the Sniper role solely up to BHS and Deadeye. Here are some spitball changes that may make them a more premium asset to a team.

Blackhand Sniper / Deadeye

- Reduce firing rate

- Reduce reload time

- Increase ammo

- Increase health

- No headshots from hip

- Slightly reduce body damage from hip shots

- Increase from $500 to $700

3. Nod Anti-Air

This may be a bit off topic, but with the changes to ramjet and possible removal. There are fewer ways to deal with orcas. Implementation of some hard AA like the GDI's MRLS could be potentially needed.

4. What about Moby?

Do you have any input on how Moby's role would change with the onset of base-rushing Havocs/Sakuras? Close-range anti-vehicle? Maybe give him a loadout of utility items so he doesn't rely completely on the volt?

[I'm amazed]

Always good to see an old ren player. Welcome!

[Beta 4 Preliminary Changelist]

@bananas

Your sniper play is really good, and you have obviously put time into perfecting it. However, it is a bit ridiculous that snipers are effective at every range and can head shot from the hip. It defeats the purpose of being a sniper; long range assassination.

Sure it's supposed to be "arcade-ish" but there should never be a class that dominates at every range with little risk.

If the community WANTS that sort of thing, then I suggest we rename the sniper rifle to railgun, or some sci-fi weaponry that works at all ranges.

[Beta 4 Preliminary Changelist]

SFjake and Gatsu, settle the fuck down. Jesus christ, do you even preview your posts before submitting them? Show a little restraint and you may encourage the devs to engage in a fruitful conversation. But right now you sound like children throwing a tantrum because they didn't get what they wanted. The product they are working so hard on is of no cost to you, or anyone, so lower your sense of entitlement.

As for the changelist, I am thrilled to have all these changes. Some of them can't be judged until they're implemented. I think the employee triggering a base defense notification is adequate for a defender like myself to rush to the scene. I am not sold on the ram jet changes. My impression was that havoc and Sakura were high skill high kills type, not necessarily rushing into bases. But we will see how it pans out. Thanks again, totem.

[Les' breakdown the Ramjet]

Vs Free:

Frustrating as hell. Like, i know its a free class but that does not take into account the time investment for some of the larger maps; just running across the field to actually accomplish something then get one hit body shot and you're back to base.

Vs Tiers 123

It's still pretty good. The rate of fire coupled with a competent body shotter levels you in under 2 seconds. 3-4 if you're good at dodging.

Vs Light Armor

it's fine against MRLs and Artillery [moreso artillery] because they have a long ranged suppression mechanic and can trade blows pretty well with a pesky ramjet. Good economy for it too like you mentioned 1000 cred vs 450 cred.

Vs Orcas and Apaches

im pretty torn on this one. I know its hard for flying units to close the distance and their missiles are short range, but then again, you have NOD who is lacking a legitimate anti-air vehicle. Dont mention Stanks, their range is abominable and cannot 1v1 an orca.

Solution:

Firing ramjet from the hip needs to go. When snipers are sniping they need to be in a slower, vulnerable, and scoped state so close range units can get the jump on them. They should be forced to switch to secondary when going toe to toe with other infantry.

Also, a slight increase to firing speed would do some good.

[The Making of Canyon]

I may not be up to date on this; but what prevented you from making an infantry-access-only silo, as it was discussed earlier?

Infantry battles ought to be emphasized on a small map like this one. It would compliment Canyon's existing tunnel fight fun.

[Actual destroyed buildings]

yes it would be epic but i would rather they worked on fixing the bugs n stuff before things like this.

Second this. They have already worked on a lot of cosmetic stuff. I hope they continue to patch bugs and balance the mechanics.

[Just wanted to thank you.]

And they're doing it all for free. Your post gave me feels.

[Building loss is too harsh.]

Let me put my two cents out there...

So people on this forum whine all day about stalemates then come to whine about how building destruction is penalizing ? lol

Stalemates occur when the fluidity of the battlefield slows to molasses and no progress is made for the greater part of the game. Granted, there will usually come building destruction, then a quick decline into a win or loss. However, that is not conducive to game fluidity; the sense that every choice made has some impact on the overall game's progression.

The point of this topic is that we want the best team to win and the lesser team to lose because of skill and fair game mechanics. Putting a handicap on a team, like the current consequences for building destruction, is incredibly punishing and leaves little room for a comeback with the obvious exception of luck.

What would be the sense of destroying the other teams base if they still can fight like they did not lose anything? I mean that would just reduce the advantages of the attackers a bit much. What would be the fun of fighting over the crates for creds if the other team still have creds income? Why would we fight over crates to get char or veh if they can just be bought on the "Destroyed building", do you guys even know the word "DESTROYED" means?

I've seen this as the only tactic some teams have to get back into the game.

I must stress this: The balance of the fight SHOULD NOT BE BASED ON LUCK.

Crates should AUGMENT the gameplay experience, not DEFINE it. A great example of fair map control are the tech buildings, but even then you have issues with them (I think all infantry should be able to capture them, not just hotties and engies.)

Anyways, shoot this post down or whatever. It is beyond me why people think that the current building mechanics are fair and compliment skill.

[Simple repair beam suggestion]

Not a bad idea. There is really no repair gun strategy other than idling and hoping your teammates can repel the attack.

[Building loss is too harsh.]

I agree completely. I've been hoping ever since i heard of Ren X that they would address this issue. I will settle for any small change, just as long as it makes building destruction a little less devastating.

However, when i bring it up, purists use their favorite defensive word: "just use TEAMWORK. Problem solved."

I digress. For now.

[It should be %buildings destroyed THEN points for victory.]

People here will justify the broken points system until their last breath. Be prepared.

[Feelings towards RenX]

It is beyond me why people are still complaining about how the developers should have left renegade in its "perfect condition as it was". Essentially, keeping all the classic mechanics, but updating graphics and what-not. While this may seem appealing, it is completely impractical.

Guys, oldies, nostalgics, renegades. Let me break it to you. There is a reason the old renegade had a peak player usage at 50 for any given day. Because Old Renegade, in all its nostalgic glory, is a game with many flaws. Like anyone, I wished westwood would have continued supporting it and EA hadn't pressured the release. I knew as well as the next guy that they were really onto something with the destructible base mechanics.

However, I also understand that if all the mechanics were ported exactly as they were, it would not attract new players or sustain a community. Many of you may be purist and say "That's the way it should be!" But the reality is that this game will not grow if there aren't any innovations.

Like the PC Gamer review, take a moment to appreciate its existence. The hard work and time sacrificed by the developers to produce not just the basic neccessities of a renegade experience, but also try to ENHANCE it. Try is the key word here. Because it is really what counts. I see many purists slam certain additions without giving it a second thought. As if the developers haphazardly made an addition for selfish means. They are giving up a lot of personal time to provide a game that would have never seen the light of day nor gotten any media coverage.

This is why simply criticizing the development without any constructive suggestions is demoralizing. Slams and bashes of attempted innovation is not conducive to grow a community or inspire the developers to keep at it.

I understand how some people might have a deep attachment to this game and its predecessor. It's awesome. It's fun. And even might have a large part in some of our childhoods. But I ask you to think critically about you say in this small community.

[Mesa Design Changes inbound!]

If the main cave is infantry only, then what is the infantrys motivation to go in there? Infantry can go in there and shoot down the tanks attacking your base or snipe down the repairers, but if tanks can no longer go in there then that cave will be useless and infantry just became a whole lot weaker on this map. which in turn gives GDI an advantage because half of nods strength lies with its infantry force

In the original post, they said that powerplant can now be infiltrated by infantry.

This is an excellent change and makes infantry combat and holding ground a lot more intense because there is a lot at stake. I would like to see infantry access implemented in field and tweaked in gold rush as a wishlist item.

Great job devs, cant wait to play it and see future map innovations.

[Gun Emplacements in other maps]

I'm not so sure if it NEEDS a gun emplacement. Islands is and always has been one of my favorite maps because it is a relatively balanced non-base defense maps.

I mean, it would be cool to add to the bunkers but I don't know what value it would add to the map dynamic.

[Poll: EMP Grenades]

Maybe if the emp is used on a Master Control Terminal it disables building. That would make infiltrating as GDI a lot more practical.

[[Mutator] Timed Disable Of Advanced Defenses for Marathon]

Make this a crate effect in vanilla.

I second this. I like the improvements to the crates! But they could still use for some more interesting drops.

This worked today after 95 minutes in field. I must say, disabling the defenses pretty much gave the game to Nod. Half the GDI team left the game because of how imbalanced it was.

Field has some balance issues in general. With base defenses, it is near impossible to hold field and tunnel versus mammoths. Without, puts GDI too defensively; and they die a slow turtling death.

No offense, I just don't get this. I get you did it as an answer to a request but the request sucked. Lets stop pretending, why not just ditch the Marathon servers if people don't like it.

You always have an interesting way of contributing to discussions, Jake.

This was done in order to experiment. If we want to make the game better we need to allow us to make experiments and need to allow us to make mistakes that we can learn from.

If this is a failure and if this really favors Nod much more then the serverowner can just remove the mutator again or just remove the effect from field or whatnot. EKT asked for this mutator and obviously EKT is a major player in renx right now and we should help each other. This is not part of the official beta 4 featureset yet, this is so far just an experiment and if this really just has this nod favoringeffects im sure EKT will bring the mutator down again soon. But it should be given a bit of time. Maybe the GDI defnders just need to adapt a bit. I mean other maps dont have AGT aswell and have much bigger bases.

Btw the reason given why this was wanted is cause EMP making rushes in field nearly kmpossible if there are defenders who know what they are doing, wich is still an unsolved issue and the reason why i was against EMP aswell.

Thank you for the ongoing efforts. As you can see, the community is pretty dedicated and they may not be able to criticize a change in the most tactful way...

[Idea: Parking Garage Structure]

This sounds like a fun mod to the mod idea. Not sure if it will break mainstream though.

A mod to the original revived a CNC classic repair depot for vehicles. Something along those lines would be viable... maybe a tech building.. i digress

[What maps can we expect for later release]

Under and Complex are under development and are nearly done. City was attempted a few times already by different designers but those attempts didnt make it far... but dont worry, another attempt to make City has already been started. But it i out cursed map atm ^^

Will there be any changes to Under to address some of the innate issues, like stalemates and the like? Community feedback on Whiteout was a success so maybe youll open the mic again to us?