New Players

[FullThrownMagic]

There were and still are a fair amount of new players this week and I see a lot of the veterans trying to kick them for various things. I am sure we just arent aware they are new and give them the Renegade welcome they don't deserve.

Please don't. Give them the Renegade welcome they do deserve. Help spread the word that new folks are here and help them when you can instead. Thanks!

[isupreme]

Yeah it really is freaky to see how out of it this new crop of players can be.     But you are right that we should relax our Uberness for a bit and try help when we can.    My favorite helping mechanisms are to answer any newb questions with short, helpful, kind answers - and I spend more time healing players on the field.   I remember when I started out - that incredible rush  you can get when you are in a battle and someone else steps up to Heal you.    True teamwork.

One of my favorite helps  is to heal  a common soldier who is clearly just learning the game.  

[bred]

This game has quite an elitist community and there isn't much we can do to counter than other than just being nice to new players. Try to get as many of them into the Discord as possible and have them ask questions for a solid discussion.

[Handepsilon]

Renegade X is this kind of game where the meta is so strong that if you mess up with it, it's bound to get you the ire of the other players. Unfortunately yeah, Bred's right about it being a hard problem to solve. It's partly community issue

[CoolAid]

Problems last week:

Maybe for the first time there is a big group of new players who have not been playing Original Renegade in the past, so they don't know the gameplay (and strategies) of the game. They really don't know whats going on and what they are suppose to do.

The veteran players where not really ready for dealing with it. I think most of us where surprised. A heads-up would have been nice so we knew what we where dealing with. Took me a while before i knew where the players where coming from.

Newer players behaving like in other games, stealing team mates vehicles (reminded me of Battlefield 2 in the old days). For these new guys, empty vehicle means it's their vehicle to grab. Don't ask me why.

Some newer players could be alot younger I quess. Some are even kids below 16, this is probably new for RenegadeX.

Repairing isn't one of the task they think they should do. They don't feel very responsible for repairing tanks and buildings. If they do they rarely buy hotwires/technicians forsome reason. This is really as task for everyone, we should tell them that.

Many newer players are new to this concept of teamplay and rushing. On a full server I could gather 3-6 people for a rush (while players had enough credits and even offered to donate). They don't (yet) seem to be the best teamplayer, they play very individualistic. Maybe some even think this is just another FPS or something.

People not reading chat or commander messages. And ignoring all PM-messages.

Newer players leaving (mammoth)(stealth) tanks in the field. Newer players opening fire while in a stealth tank (stank) rush. Newer players not following commander tank and not being buffed as a result.

Newer players driving like idiots, blocking each others ways and blocking retreating tanks . They don't yet understand the concept of lanes.

Many of the new player don't stick to the game and leave. This means alot of first tryers who are basically almost worthless for the team.

Stat K/D whore (snipers) noticing and taking the oppertunity to farm easy kills to make their K/D better.

I have seen the veteran players stack now even more to avoid being in the team that is full of new players. This results in a quick stomb of one team. Really not the experience you want the new guys to have, as this makes many uninstall the game.

Edited May 2, 2021 by CoolAid

[scrin-124678]

yeah, respecting players begins with not blocking their MLRS with an orca .. @FullThrownMagic.

[Xtractor]

2 hours ago, CoolAid said:

.......

I have seen the veteran players stack now even more to avoid being in the team that is full of new players. This results in a quick stomb of one team. Really not the experience you want the new guys to have, as this makes many uninstall the game.

I saw someone in goldrush last week end that was in my team...and at the end  of the game saw that he had moved into the other team...kind of pissed me..if I had noticed before I would had probably quite the game as soon noticing

[isupreme]

Quote

Newer players behaving like in other games, stealing team mates vehicles (reminded me of Battlefield 2 in the old days). For these new guys, empty vehicle means it's their vehicle to grab. Don't ask me why.

sigh...  it takes me back...      I used to steal vehicles in Renegade when I first started.     I really had no idea why I should not use that empty vehicle.  Yeah I was total newb.  I can still see in my mind the angry texts on the screen...   "That's my tank Isupreme! "     Well thank goodness I caught on eventually,  but I am sad to say I probably caused much pain in the interim.

[Atomsk]

I don't care if you're new, everyone started out fresh. I'm happy to respond to question or help people out. What really pisses me off is people minebanning. 

No one bothers to correct mines, but everyone's willing to shout or mineban people. Only exception I know is Mysil. 

[Zaddy]

I am somewhat of a newb, played original Ren but only as singleplayer when I was like 12. Thankfully I have not made many of the sins listed here (expect driving like an idiot hah). Is there a good resource to see how to mine buildings properly? Seems like something you can fuck up easily if you don't understand what you're doing. 

 

Thanks all

Edited May 1, 2021 by Zaddy

[CoolAid]

Minebanning happends because new players don't notice the PM-messages. Or don't react to it. Or don't know how to send PMs to other players. If someone is minebanned they can simply disarm the mines of that player, its just alot more easy to do it that way. A mine-ban stays only active for that match so it isn't that bad. Trying to explain how mining works while you actually are needed to defend your base from imminent destruction is sometimes really hard to do.

I started to do mining after I learned to hotwire/technician sneak and disarm enemy building mines. I observed how Calimero, Bioz and other good defenders/miners did it and then followed that example. It's basically just copying and pasting behaviour from other good players first, then start to learn why its good to do it in that way. Improve on it every time.

Sneakers are the best base miners, because they know how to make it harder to get inside the building. If it takes longer to get inside, it's more likely that the sneaker is being spotted trying to get inside.

When someone tells you that some mines are not good, listen to them. Remove your own mines by picking them up using the R key. Please dont right-click disarm the mines as that can make false-positive mine disarm sound and your team members might freak out.

Here is some info about Proximity C4.
https://wiki.renegade-x.com/wiki/Proximity_C4

If you see me in game, PM me about mining and I might be able to show you some things and explain.

[Atomsk]

7 hours ago, CoolAid said:

Minebanning happends because new players don't notice the PM-messages. Or don't react to it. Or don't know how to send PMs to other players. If someone is minebanned they can simply disarm the mines of that player, its just alot more easy to do it that way. A mine-ban stays only active for that match so it isn't that bad. Trying to explain how mining works while you actually are needed to defend your base from imminent destruction is sometimes really hard to do.

I started to do mining after I learned to hotwire/technician sneak and disarm enemy building mines. I observed how Calimero, Bioz and other good defenders/miners did it and then followed that example. It's basically just copying and pasting behaviour from other good players first, then start to learn why its good to do it in that way. Improve on it every time.

Sneakers are the best base miners, because they know how to make it harder to get inside the building. If it takes longer to get inside, it's more likely that the sneaker is being spotted trying to get inside.

When someone tells you that some mines are not good, listen to them. Remove your own mines by picking them up using the R key. Please dont right-click disarm the mines as that can make false-positive mine disarm sound and your team members might freak out.

Here is some info about Proximity C4.
https://wiki.renegade-x.com/wiki/Proximity_C4

If you see me in game, PM me about mining and I might be able to show you some things and explain.

I'm not against the minebanning vote, but with a new influx of players (thanks Bluedrake :)), people really don't help new players. Last few days, I've seen people being shouted down and minebanned outright. That's a shame, this game needs new players.

Another think that irks me is that I've often requested the time where mines are needed and no one responds. Ever. Do I stink, or something? lol

It has come to the point I mine the bare minimum (two or three mines at a door, except Field's ref backdoor). Only person to ever reach out to correct me was Mysil. Not saying you're not a helpful veteran, btw. I've picked up a lot from you and many other vets. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Atomsk
clarification

[NodSaibot]

59 minutes ago, Atomsk said:

I'm not against the minebanning vote, but with a new influx of players (thanks Bluedrake :)), people really don't help new players. Last few days, I've seen people being shouted down and banned outright. That's a shame, this game needs new players.

Another think that irks me is that I've often requested the time where mines are needed and no one responds. Ever. Do I stink, or something? lol

It has come to the point I mine the bare minimum (two or three mines at a door, except Field's ref backdoor). Only person to ever reach out to correct me was Mysil. Not saying you're not a helpful veteran, btw. I've picked up a lot from you and many other vets. 

People have been banned?

[Atomsk]

1 minute ago, NodSaibot said:

People have been banned?

From the context of the conversation, I meant minebanned. 

[Fishyshoe]

12 hours ago, CoolAid said:

When someone tells you that some mines are not good, listen to them. Remove your own mines by picking them up using the R key. Please dont right-click disarm the mines as that can make false-positive mine disarm sound and your team members might freak out.

Holy $h!t...never knew that was possible. Guess I am a n00b myself...

But in all seriousness, Everything @CoolAid wrote is spot-on. I personally want to strangle that YT guy who made this influx of horny teenagers (sorry, that's how I picture them) to our game. Don't get me wrong - it's perfectly fine to be a horny teenager, but they should at least LISTEN to ppl trying to help them.

That night, a week ago or so, I was SOOO pissed at one of these newcomers (never saw him/her since), because he repeatly bought humvees, used them to get to the other side of the map, and simply leave them out, only for Nod's SBH to happily pick up the shiny ride. Even when I tried - repeatly!!! - to tell him/her (assuming it's a him, forgive me) NOT to do that, even by using private chat - I don't know if he actually read or not, but he simply ignored me. Actually he did reply to my chat, but seemed as though he simply doesn't give a f!@k. He kept on going! that is team-hampering in my book, but when I voted him to be kicked for that - not enough players agrees, because "he is new, give him a chance". Well, I have. He simply gave me (or all of us) the finger. 

Not to mention that those players repeatedly insisted on getting engis and not hotwires/technicians, no matter how we tried to tell them why they should do it. I think they're under the impression it costs them real $$$ or something. Cheep bastards...

I actually rage-quit that match (first time it ever happened to me), and after crying to @kira about it for a good few minutes, I returned to the server to apologize for my behavior towards everyone in general and towards that player specifically (both via public survey message and via private message, which he didn't bother to respond to), but the scar remained. Because of this incident, btw, I have withdrawn my application to become an in-game moderator, since I didn't believe I deserved it anymore (sorry @NodSaibot again, for wasting your time...)

Anyway, excuse me for being an angry fish here, but if the newcomers don't wish to learn, don't bother reading the tips we give them - more than once!!! - then as far as I'm concerned, they can beat the hell out of the game. This isn't some modern AAA shit they can do whatever they want. This is a classic, vintage game brought back to life by saint people, and should be cherished and polished and tendered with love, and not be ruined by some jerks who came to try it because a silly youtuber who gets his money from saying "oh wow, look at this game!" told them to try it. That youtuber doesn't give a f!@#, and you all know it.

And, again - DON'T get me wrong - new players ARE an asset and ARE very important to the game, IF they are willing to pay attention, learn from their mistakes (even if they repeat them a few times it's fine), communicate with the more experienced ones, and basically show some caring, and not join-in thinking this is GTA and doing whatever their **** tells them too.

I hope none of you find this long post offensive, and apologize if you do, as this was not my intention. I simply wrote from heart.

 

See you on the battleground.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Fishyshoe

[Xtractor]

First: Is Mine Banning only Banning from mining or the player will be kick of the game?

Chat (PM): I personnaly dont catch them all ..the color for me is hard to read ..Sometime I have to pause the game to read from the CHAT tab

Some New players may have difficuty to process all the infos ,the match itselft and all the Hud stuff and may even not understand english perfectly..so .

Myselft Im still learning because I do on the fly not taking time to read much wiki oe else ..My bad

On the fun side of my Noobish life   When I was playing the original Renegade ..Once..I had mined all the ref and PP the outside doors building ..Thinking I like better to see ennemy Out of the building not in ..Yeah I had few Rec Noob messages ...I was  that guy :))) 

 

 

 

 

[Gex_str]

1 hour ago, Xtractor said:

First: Is Mine Banning only Banning from mining or the player will be kick of the game?

It will disable placing proxy mines for that person for whole match, also people will be able to remove his mines.
As for PM chat, tbh I barely even look at chat because of my playstyle(lone player), it doesn't help that PM sound is so frigging quiet that you need to stand in empty room to hear it. As for color - we have lime, yellow and red as usual colors there, so blue doesn't stick out for me.

[roweboat]

On 5/1/2021 at 2:23 PM, Zaddy said:

I am somewhat of a newb, played original Ren but only as singleplayer when I was like 12. Thankfully I have not made many of the sins listed here (expect driving like an idiot hah). Is there a good resource to see how to mine buildings properly? Seems like something you can fuck up easily if you don't understand what you're doing. 

 

Thanks all

id recommend simply joining a game when its busy, and go to each building and observe where the mines are placed. There are variations to the mine placement, but basically its 3 mines to a door.

[NodSaibot]

16 hours ago, CoolAid said:

right-click disarm the mines as that can make false-positive mine disarm sound

I removed the sound for team-disarms a couple patches ago, if it still does that, it's a bug.

[CoolAid]

Quote

I removed the sound for team-disarms a couple patches ago, if it still does that, it's a bug.

Oh so when I disarm my own mines it still plays a disarm sound for me only, but the other team members won't be able to hear that anymore?

Edited May 2, 2021 by CoolAid

[Xtractor]

2 hours ago, Gex_str said:

It will disable placing proxy mines for that person for whole match, also people will be able to remove his mines.
As for PM chat, tbh I barely even look at chat because of my playstyle(lone player), it doesn't help that PM sound is so frigging quiet that you need to stand in empty room to hear it. As for color - we have lime, yellow and red as usual colors there, so blue doesn't stick out for me.

Mb the banned message should be rewrite bcoz its scary like been banned from the match in progress

[CoolAid]

Quote

Mb the banned message should be rewrite bcoz its scary like been banned from the match in progress

Yes, I think its a good idea too. In the voting menu "Mining Ban" to "Mining ban during match".

"PlayerX wants to ban PlayerY from mining"
could be changed to:
"PlayerX wants to ban PlayerY from mining during/for this match"
or
"PlayerX wants to temporarly ban PlayerY from mining".

Edited May 2, 2021 by CoolAid

[Xtractor]

1 hour ago, CoolAid said:

Yes, I think its a good idea too. In the voting menu "Mining Ban" to "Mining ban during match".

"PlayerX wants to ban PlayerY from mining"
could be changed to:
"PlayerX wants to ban PlayerY from mining during/for this match"
or
"PlayerX wants to temporarly ban PlayerY from mining".

What if the message be more frienly/funny kinda ...Like "PlayerX wants  PlayerY  learnimg RenX mining101 for the remaining match"

[Handepsilon]

That will just lead to miscommunication,  which is the opposite of what you want UI to do

[slashes]

think with the mine banning option is to instead have more mines again like the other renegade remember the mine limit if 80-130 on the maps. this allowed them to be used both for buildings and the base defence itself 

take field for example on the c and c renegade people used to mine 5 on the door entrances ea to kill 1 or a grouped up inf in 1 single swoop.

then the fields front was entirelly mined mostly no sbh's could infiltrate unless nod did a tank or apc rush with atleast 2 being needed to fully break in to disarm 1 side of mines. a return of this would be nice for nods side this was the same ya could easily destroy a mammoth tank on full hp when it went inside. ya also had eventuelly some lovely turrets at the front and tunnel entrance which is still something field misses if ya ask me.

then for the emp being able to disarm mines remove this option from the anti vehicle infantry group make it so it only disables vehicle's and not any mines themselfs. then add a empowerdt emp grenade in weapon crate's. they could eather be 1 use with a cooldown on reload time or have the same frag grenade use in the crates.  pretty much right now if ya get frag grenades of the crates ya get like 3-6 grenade ya can throw in quick succesion pretty much a grenadier from the original renegade. because the renegade version uses a grenade launcher the one in the 1st renegade just threw grenades instead.

 

all this should make the game more friendly to new players+ make it less likely for people to be salty if 1 mine is in the wrong order because mine banns are done by someone with 1 mine in the wrong position. that strict gameplay is what ruins it so just triple to x4 the mine limit while rebalancing the damage to like 30-40% of the current seems like a good compensation for some better gameplay mechanics

Edited May 3, 2021 by slashes

[Handepsilon]

With that sort of thing, you'd be denying the concept of infiltration, though. Putting it on some kind of RNG-based crate is not the way you want to do it. This also promotes camping too much, which is not ideal

[slashes]

1 hour ago, Handepsilon said:

With that sort of thing, you'd be denying the concept of infiltration, though. Putting it on some kind of RNG-based crate is not the way you want to do it. This also promotes camping too much, which is not ideal

infiltrating is always an option tho because that was always done in the original renegade. with this adjustment ya just need to be more carefull+on gdi this will make them slack of more overall because main reason right now why gdi gameplay on certain players is always to continuesly look around is the mine limit..... 18-24 mine limit makes people be on edge all the time. this by itself makes sbh infiltration alot harder then just increase mine limit+decreasing mine damage to compensate for it.

main reason why i even liked the personal mine limit to begin with that was tryed out minus them despawning on death ofcourse... made gdi less tense then being like THEREI IS AN SBH SOMEWHERE WHERE IS HE. IS HE OVERHERE OR THERE where is he IK THERE IS 1 SOMEWHERE!!! every match there is always 3/6 people doing this on gdi end looking for them even if hand of nod is destroyed they cant help there hase to be an sbh in the base.just havent found him yet.

if the emp crate would promote to much camping why rework the anti vehicle infantry a bit on there weapon then make the personal ion cannon+railgun eather damage or 1 shot destroy mines ya target with it. this means ya can have the emp for vehicle's only and there weapon used to disable mines. while also having them be used for tanks. this also would make the piercing ion if that thing wasent scrapped/removed a bit more usefuller with the crap aim of it.

[Handepsilon]

Well I will begin to say that you misunderstood what I was trying to say. It is not the EMP crate that would promote too much camping, but rather the overabundance of mines. The EMP crate just adds too much weigh in RNG, which is really something I personally don't like. There's a reason why crate weapons got trimmed eventually.

On the contrary, it's really hard to infiltrate a base where mines are overabundant. It means you can't really go anywhere in the enemy base without the ground suddenly igniting under you. It's already so bad when a barracks/HoN was the only building left and you can't infiltrate it due to the whole building being filled with mines even EMP grenade/strike can't solve it

[Atomsk]

Going back to my original premise, I want to make clear have no issue with the game mechanics. It would suit the community to help out new players, instead of ostracizing them or pulling the mineban trigger before doing any effort to include them into the match. 

I know people have been trying to get Bluedrake closer into the community. It would be really nice if we would succeed in that, and show him the ropes. If he would put that video out for everyone to see, perhaps that would give some people an inkling of how the game is played. I tried messaging him myself, but he never responded.

Anyone else tried or had any luck? 

[Atomsk]

4 hours ago, slashes said:

s them despawning on death ofcourse... made gdi less tense then being like THEREI IS AN SBH SOMEWHERE WHERE IS HE. IS HE OVERHERE OR THERE where is he IK THERE IS 1 SOMEWHERE!!! every match there is always 3/6 people doing this on gdi end looking for them even if hand of nod is destroyed they cant help there hase to be an sbh in the base.just havent found him yet.

That seems a bit hyperbolic? 3 to 6 people, every match? That only occurs on maps without base defenses like Walls, when GDI is pressed into a corner. Moreover, it's just part of the game: GDI has armor and firepower (in general), Nod has stealth and guerilla tactics. Trying to flatten the curve would make the game boring, in my opinion. 

You can always tell them to stop looking in bunches, too. Communication is half the battle in RenX. 

[TheOlsenTwins]

Maybe just rename Mineban to "Player X wants to Disallow Player Y from mining during this match".

[CoolAid]

Quote

That seems a bit hyperbolic? 3 to 6 people, every match? That only occurs on maps without base defenses like Walls, when GDI is pressed into a corner. Moreover, it's just part of the game: GDI has armor and firepower (in general), Nod has stealth and guerilla tactics. Trying to flatten the curve would make the game boring, in my opinion. 

You can always tell them to stop looking in bunches, too. Communication is half the battle in RenX. 

On the day the BlueDrake video released and the few days after it was as terrible as he an i have written, and no it didnt matter how much money they had and there wasn't much pressure at the front at all. They just didn't repair or do any teamwork.

Lukily things changed already for the better.