Add Recon Bikes to Main Roster

[LavaDr4gon]

Internet polls against my opinion are always wrong.  Polls that agree with my opinion are always right

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

22 minutes ago, LavaDr4gon said:

Internet polls against my opinion are always wrong.  Polls that agree with my opinion are always right

Now now, there's no need for you to be a f a g. If you'd actually read everything that's been presented, you would have to admit that all of the nay sayer replies so far have been ill founded; half of them don't even realize that we're talking about a different unit entirely.

It's uncanny how slow they all are to realize they have next to no experience on what they're trying to argue with. A small bunch of detached slow pokes voting in a poll together who don't represent the player base because the majority doesn't use forums anyways? Naw. Just implement it and see if it works. If anything it'll make the modeller feel even more proud - it's a great rendition of the OG Recon Bike. A shame it wont see mainstream play because of... well, nothing really. Because of a couple of dum dums.

Sorry I'm being harsh, but this is getting tedious. It is what it is, a new addition. Try it out. You might like it. And if it's truly upsetting the balance? It'll be removed. I respect your strong urges to protect your current meta. You have every right to state your feelings.

Edited October 20, 2019 by DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr

[Fffreak9999]

I recommend keeping this more civil (all of you), further argumentative and non-constructive communications from the people taking part in this thread may result in the thread being locked. 

[LavaDr4gon]

8 minutes ago, DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr said:

Sorry I'm being harsh, but this is getting tedious. It is what it is, a new addition. Try it out. You might like it.

Actually, I saw the development of the Recon Bike from beginning to end and there is a story with it.

When the Recon Bike model was made the original plan was for it to be a purchasable vehicle.  I wasn't the person to make the final decision but I was involved with the discussion.

What happened was there was another issue being brought up.  There was a discussion  regarding early game vs. late game balance.  A majority agreed that Nod had an early game while GDI had a late game with their mammoth tanks, especially when they hit elite or heroic.  Nod doesn't have any vehicles that can counter mammoth effectively as they had low armor and low firepower to stand up against a mammoth tank.

So an idea was brought up with giving Nod a heavy tank to stand up against the mammoth.  Remember, the Recon bike was recently made so giving Nod two new vehicles was viewed as a bad call.  Not only would it help Nod's late game but it would help the early game as well.  Therefore, we would essentially nerf GDI on both ends.  Then to counteract the nerfs we would need to make another vehicle for GDI and cause a chain reaction of confusion with adding stuff to balance each other out.  Then the Recon Bike is released as a crate vehicle.

Other arguments were made regarding how effective the bike will be.  It would have been an early game unit.  Combine it with buggies and you can dominate the field while the artys move in.  Not only that but orcas will become worthless with Nod having a cheaper option to counter them.  Also having more options doesn't mean its better.  The game has vehicle limits and having more choices can cause more harm.

In summary, the Recon Bike was planned to be purchasable.  It became a crate vehicle as a consequence of another balance issue being brought up.  Then more thought went into balance before finalizing the decision.  

 

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

1 hour ago, LavaDr4gon said:

Actually, I saw the development of the Recon Bike from beginning to end and there is a story with it.

When the Recon Bike model was made the original plan was for it to be a purchasable vehicle.  I wasn't the person to make the final decision but I was involved with the discussion.

What happened was there was another issue being brought up.  There was a discussion  regarding early game vs. late game balance.  A majority agreed that Nod had an early game while GDI had a late game with their mammoth tanks, especially when they hit elite or heroic.  Nod doesn't have any vehicles that can counter mammoth effectively as they had low armor and low firepower to stand up against a mammoth tank.

So an idea was brought up with giving Nod a heavy tank to stand up against the mammoth.  Remember, the Recon bike was recently made so giving Nod two new vehicles was viewed as a bad call.  Not only would it help Nod's late game but it would help the early game as well.  Therefore, we would essentially nerf GDI on both ends.  Then to counteract the nerfs we would need to make another vehicle for GDI and cause a chain reaction of confusion with adding stuff to balance each other out.  Then the Recon Bike is released as a crate vehicle.

Other arguments were made regarding how effective the bike will be.  It would have been an early game unit.  Combine it with buggies and you can dominate the field while the artys move in.  Not only that but orcas will become worthless with Nod having a cheaper option to counter them.  Also having more options doesn't mean its better.  The game has vehicle limits and having more choices can cause more harm.

In summary, the Recon Bike was planned to be purchasable.  It became a crate vehicle as a consequence of another balance issue being brought up.  Then more thought went into balance before finalizing the decision.  

 

That's better, a proper refutation, finally. Ok fair enough. Still, did you play test in a 32v32 environment? Also, a "chain" of reactions? Naw, I'd say only one thing would come up: like you say, early game dominance. There is one easy and simple way to counter that - TOW missile Humvees, just like what was done in OG Renegade.

Think about it, at $550 with homing rockets the TOW Humvee can take out those bikes cheaper than the medium tank could. With the TOW Humvee GDI has a fast early game equivalent to the bike.

As for vehicle limits that's a non issue. A bike instead of a buggy is the same as an APC instead of a buggy, kind of.

As for late game, consider a proper functioning SSM Launcher with two rockets like this one:

This unit is more lore accurate than a heavy tank, which is Red Alert. The SSM Launcher is the second unit that was in C&C1 that Westwood could not implement fully in Renegade due to time constraints. On bigger maps, in theory this thing could punch holes into mammoths from a greater distance than the artillery could, completely out ranging the mammy, and it could decimate repair teams camping behind the mammoth with the sheer splash damage of it's napalm missiles, forcing GDI to send out some TOW Humvees or flank it thru tunnels with rocket troops to try to pick it off. I'd imagine the SSM functioning similar to the V2 in A Path Beyond, only with two weaker missiles instead of one stronger missile, and for balance sake, it should probably not out range the AGT and Obelisk like it does in the OG Command & Conquer game.

You know what would be awesome? Have the SSM Launcher have left click be firing the left missile and right click fire the right, with separate reload times, so a skillful driver could time his shots consecutively.

Ahh the possibilities. Respect to your dev team but I think you guys are missing out here with the bike. Follow through with your original idea of implementing it fully, at least only for quick public test purposes. Waste not the newly made unit.

Edited October 20, 2019 by DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr

[euan-missile]

@HIHIHI

absolute top kek memery in your last post and some great points -  and points considered, I think as games grow older and become either more populous or not, a strive for change is always going to be common ground. And I think one major change that could be implemented (and I firmly believe will be) is vehicle specific maps, in that I mean an expansion on the "flying" - "non flying" maps, where instead of just helicopters being an alternating meta, we also have differing vehicle in general, to suit certain maps and allow for more strategic and skill set growth with these maps. 

 

However, I am confused about one thing - i am noticing important discussions on a very specific topic - There's talk about "late game" vs "early game"  @LavaDr4gon talks about this best in his last post, giving a brief insight into Why the recon bike was more-or-less shunned into crates.

The common idea is that GDI have more "late game" vehicles, which is to say Vehicles that are heavily armoured and incredibly powerful, which can overwhelm NODs "early game" vehicles, which is to say Vehicles that are weaker in these aspects, if not cheaper and more agile. Both teams follow this mantra, and as you progress through the ranking system you'll see it more clearly ingame.

And the initial idea which lead to the Recon Bikes demise, is that NOD needed a vehicle that would act more as "late game" heavy armoured and powerful to counter the ones that GDI has - and the Recon bike is clearly early game, which is to say, weak in those aspects.

  My confusion arises from this,

This ethic implicates that the bike, couldn't take down a mammoth. Or even say, a Stealth Tank, can't take down a mammoth. - Which I think is nonsense, NOD is Guerrilla warfare - "hit & run" is the common playstyle of these bikes and other NOD vehicles in general, and is disgustingly effective against heavy GDI Units. - Think of maps like Outposts & Daybreak, where these supposed NOD "early game" vehicles, can outmanoeuvre, outplay and destroy GDI Mammoths and Medium tanks with virtual ease. (even if there is equal numbers)

NOD is a knife, GDI is a hammer, sure the knife is weaker, but it's sharper and has more potential if it can be used correctly. - My point here being, if you use the bike correctly within the intended role, you can do some serious harassment and damage to these bigger GDI Late game vehicles, so it would of been a good balance. 

The only thing that really stops this from being shown more clearly, is the current map designs which are incredibly small and really impede these tactics. I'm looking forward to seeing more open and vast maps, which would give a better understanding to these principles.  - but if all maps were Daybreak and Outpost, you'd see that GDI would be incredibly overwhelmed. I think that's because, while NOD can play to their principles well, GDIs "hammer" isn't as strong as it should be to keep up. 

 

 

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

1 hour ago, euan-missile said:

I think one major change that could be implemented (and I firmly believe will be) is vehicle specific maps, in that I mean an expansion on the "flying" - "non flying" maps, where instead of just helicopters being an alternating meta, we also have differing vehicle in general, to suit certain maps and allow for more strategic and skill set growth with these maps......

.....This ethic implicates that the bike, couldn't take down a mammoth. Or even say, a Stealth Tank, can't take down a mammoth. - Which I think is nonsense, NOD is Guerrilla warfare....

NOD is Guerrilla warfare..... NOD is a knife, GDI is a hammer,

Very nice idea of alternating meta, and also well said of the bike getting canned because it is no good late game - that is a stupid reason.

Also, FYI again, it's Nod, not NOD. Nod is not an acronym. lol, are you doing this on purpose? Did you not read my previous post? I already explained this to you. Seriously, its such an amateur mistake, I'm trying to help out. It's not N.O.D. (Northern Odious Nordification) it's the Brotherhood of Nod.

Quote

My point here being, if you use the bike correctly within the intended role, you can do some serious harassment and damage to these bigger GDI Late game vehicles, so it would of been a good balance. 

Hell yeah! That's exactly what we do in OG Renegade - the Bike can flank the mammoth tank all day without the tank being able to target it properly, the bike gets too close, runs circles around the tank, and kill the Hotties repairing it too.

Quote

I think that's because, while NOD can play to their principles well, GDIs "hammer" isn't as strong as it should be to keep up. 

Naw that's end of the day, end of the match thinking gone awry. All that matters at the end of the day is which team has the more stacked player count. GDI is not necessarily harder to play as than Nod, they just require more patience, although being patient is hard. heheh

Edited October 20, 2019 by DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr

[HIHIHI]

Very good point about map sizes, Euan. I suppose that when I think of vehicle balance, for some reason, Field is almost always the map I think of it on. But as you have said, on larger, more open maps, Nod's hit-and-run tactics really can shine much more easily, since they have a place to run. I still have some doubts about the overall effectiveness of the tactic, since GDI (in my mind) will usually have enough time to make repairs if they have proper support (and if they don't, anything that's not anti-inf will probably destroy them), but it's still a good reminder. We must consider both the Fields and the Daybreaks in balance discussions.

One point I would like to make is that (according to my memory of stat api data), Nod already has an advantage over GDI in most of the large maps (Eyes, possibly Daybreak, definitely Outposts), due in part to stealth being so powerful in a large map.

As to differing vehicle rosters... I am still hesitant, since with the change comes more to learn. I believe that some of the devs also have this mindset: more complexity and more to learn will drive away more people from a game that already has quite a bit to learn.

I shall be interested to see your response - I'm sure there are many things I haven't thought of. I just say what I think and take what comes. : )

HIHIHI

[NodSaibot]

I don't think NOD needs another vehicle. I think it's fine in the crate.

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

On 10/20/2019 at 3:51 PM, buttons said:

I don't think NOD needs another vehicle. I think it's fine in the crate.

No offense Mrs. dev but that's not an argument. Also, really? You? A dev? Not saying Nod properly? lol what is wrong with you people? Nod was never an abbreviation. 🤣 Nod is the land that Kane had to walk thru after murdering his brother Abel. Tru story yo

On 10/20/2019 at 3:42 PM, HIHIHI said:

.... I still have some doubts about the overall effectiveness of the tactic, since GDI (in my mind) will usually have enough time to make repairs if they have proper support (and if they don't, anything that's not anti-inf will probably destroy them), but it's still a good reminder.

Recon Bikes and Attack Buggies can sometimes race past GDI support and kill the Engineer/Hotties, breaking thru the line. Do it all the time in OG Renegade.

Quote

Nod already has an advantage over GDI in most of the large maps

That's not always true - a good GDI team can use Humvees just as well as a good Nod team can use Buggies. The addition of the bike could complicate this, which is why OG Renegade modders introduced the TOW Rocket Humvee. But still, only one way to find out - lets give the Bike a mass public test drive, yo.

And of course the real reason Nod owns big open maps with multiple base entrances is because of their Stealth Tanks, not because of their buggies/bikes, so... don't worry about that.

Edited October 21, 2019 by DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr

[euan-missile]

3 hours ago, DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr said:

That's exactly what we do in OG Renegade - the Bike can flank the mammoth tank all day without the tank being able to target it properly, the bike gets too close, runs circles around the tank, and kill the Hotties repairing it too.

 

This is the exact reason why that "weak" vehicle is actually so very potent to late game vehicles. It's a perfect way to balance out Nods lack of Behemoth vehicles, by simply having swarms of smaller vehicles. So with that in mind, I'm not sure why they never bothered to add it into the base meta. 

 

2 hours ago, HIHIHI said:

Very good point about map sizes, Euan. I suppose that when I think of vehicle balance, for some reason, Field is almost always the map I think of it on. But as you have said, on larger, more open maps, Nod's hit-and-run tactics really can shine much more easily, since they have a place to run. I still have some doubts about the overall effectiveness of the tactic, since GDI (in my mind) will usually have enough time to make repairs if they have proper support (and if they don't, anything that's not anti-inf will probably destroy them), but it's still a good reminder. We must consider both the Fields and the Daybreaks in balance discussions.

One point I would like to make is that (according to my memory of stat api data), Nod already has an advantage over GDI in most of the large maps (Eyes, possibly Daybreak, definitely Outposts), due in part to stealth being so powerful in a large map.

As to differing vehicle rosters... I am still hesitant, since with the change comes more to learn. I believe that some of the devs also have this mindset: more complexity and more to learn will drive away more people from a game that already has quite a bit to learn.

I shall be interested to see your response - I'm sure there are many things I haven't thought of. I just say what I think and take what comes. : )

HIHIHI

It's funny, I often think about Field when imagining vehicle balance - and also how my Stealth can never stay undetected for more than a minute. 

Yes, the tactic does require a combination of open terrain and cover for it to be even considered, and like many tactics, it can be quelled by the use of infantry supporting the tanks. Not just repairs, but also snipers and anti tank inf.  - I should stress that "hit & run" and "stealth ambushing" methods are my favourite tactics ever since I was playing renegade when I was a child and against an unprepared team, they are devastating. But, they can be easily repelled if GDI is on their toes, or if Nod isn't on theirs.  - which is why this is a common gameplay meta, because it is very balanced and marks the important distinction between GDI and Nod. 

 

- As for your last point, yesterday I played an early morning 8v8 vehicle only game of daybreak, I organised our stealth tanks to do nothing but harass oncoming GDI vehicles using these tactics above. It was disgustingly effective, against Medium tanks, Mammoths & Titans. Despite GDI having a sense of competency, using anti tank inf, repairing tanks and avoiding clear ambush hot spots, they couldn't take down realistically any of our stealth units. Even if we weren't able to kill their infantry, they couldn't withstand our attacks.  

This however, contradicts my first part of the message where I said how Infantry support is critical to stopping these tactics.

 I made a few mental notes that'll explain the contradiction  - and why these tactics are so potent to large maps only. 

 

 Nods fast attack vehicles are very much rocket based, having the ability to stay locked onto a target is not really necessary when your target is already a large and slow vehicle like a mammoth, but when distance is applied, it becomes an unfair advantage. But more critically,

It allows for intense and vigorous movements that allow you to dodge incoming projectiles, whilst still landing 100% accuracy of your own. I worked out that for every 3 120mm shots that landed on my stank, I would of been able fire my stealth tank consecutively, for atleast 25 seconds. Equating to somewhere around 50 hits of my own.  Admittedly, I did have to use rocks & cover to properly get this result.

Now, from the Mammoth/Med/Titans perspective, trying to shoot a small fast moving vehicle that's utilising cover at distance, by using blindfire, is disgustingly unfair, especially to inexperienced or new people. 

On top of this, I found the enemy anti-tank infantry had a pathetic range to engage us. They would have to sprint far away from their vehicular cover, before we were in attack range. By which point, we could cloak, relocate and squish them or if we had recon bikes, we could sprint out of cover and engage them in the open briefly, and very violently. 

Even if we swapped positions, and gave the GDI the cover we had rather than open ground, they'd still struggle to hit us as much as we would hit them, and it wouldn't change the attack range of their anti-tank infantry. 

 

So, these tactics that practically define Nods vehicle ethic, have many counters on smaller maps. We can see, anti tank infantry can now play a role against it, and smaller distances mean that the ability to "lock & dodge" or "hit & run" aren't ever fully utilised. 

But on larger maps, this switches completely. GDIs current balance and meta setup only applies for smaller maps for it to stay inline. 

 

I actually remember thinking by the end of that game, how much fun it would be if Renegade X could have a vehicle only based large map, all the strategies and tactics that could be played. It would be amazingly fun, having the chance to see Mount Harbour, really excited this idea. But there needs to be an overhaul at GDIs end when it comes to balance engaging Nod at distance, particularly I think with fire engagements, armour, weapon range, and projectile splash damage.  -- 

And ahh, I see your point about devs, but keep in mind, no game can age without change. Even unnecessary ones. And a vehicle like a recon bike, placates heavily to the natural guerrilla warfare of Nod, meaning it wouldn't require any new skills or complexity to learn, seeing as it still keeps within the meta that Nod currently uses. You'd be more stressed out, if Nod was given a heavy tank. 😉

 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2019 by euan-missile

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

2 hours ago, euan-missile said:

Nods fast attack vehicles are very much rocket based, having the ability to stay locked onto a target is not really necessary when your target is already a large and slow vehicle like a mammoth, but when distance is applied, it becomes an unfair advantage. But more critically,

It allows for intense and vigorous movements that allow you to dodge incoming projectiles, whilst still landing 100% accuracy of your own.

You think the rocket lock-on in Ren X is too OP? Is there anyway to edit the lock-on stats? In OG Renegade the lock-on was always buggy. But also in OG Renegade there was no vehicle limit, not really.

Edited October 21, 2019 by DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr

[Marinealver]

On 10/18/2019 at 12:30 PM, DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr said:

...

Guess you never played C&C1. It's always been that way.

...

Well there is always the MRLS Rush, or APC Commando rush, rush to Ion Cannon. 

Frankly I have been watching that Dawn of the Tiberium Age where it puts Tiberium Dawn units and Red Alert Units in Tiberium sun mod.

https://dta.cnc-comm.com/GDI.htm

Well it doesn't give the GDI any new units besides the navy. The Nod fleet is way more interesting sadly. I was hoping for the Aircraft carrier to be a floating airfield.

But I was wondering just to say throw balance in the mix lets give the GDI another tank. Something with a little more specialized role. Here are some options.

• Telsa Tank It is already in and might not be exactly fitting of GDI's battle doctrine as one could argue the Telsa tanks like hte flame tank is more of a terror weapon than a combat weapon. I mean GDI kept the supertank from the Soviets (assuming RA Soviet campaign is cannon).
• Tank Destroyer Again the question is what role would it fill since Nod only has light tanks. An antivehicle weapon that doesn't have a turret so you have to face what you are shooting at.
• Rail Gun Tank Okay now we are talking, this would be a Tank Destroyer on Steroids. Now again GDI doesn't need any vehicle to go up against Mammoth Tanks since they own the monopoly on it but it could serve as another artillery piece for GDI.

Either way, I am still waiting for Orca Bombers and Banshees to become Tech Air Vehicles.

[roweboat]

10 hours ago, LavaDr4gon said:

Actually, I saw the development of the Recon Bike from beginning to end and there is a story with it.

Thanks for sharing the insight! Very interesting.

 

I think Eyes could be good candidate for purchasable Recon Bikes. The bike could only be useful for harassment or transport in field. I'd think even a fleet of them approaching GDI base would be destroyed. And the map has so much height between the upper and lower paths, the bikes could be used in interesting ways there.

 

Heck maybe just give both sides bikes on that map and let all hell break loose =D

[CoreDefender]

 

11 hours ago, DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr said:

 

As for late game, consider a proper functioning SSM Launcher with two rockets

This unit is more lore accurate than a heavy tank, which is Red Alert. The SSM Launcher is the second unit that was in C&C1 that Westwood could not implement fully in Renegade due to time constraints. On bigger maps, in theory this thing could punch holes into mammoths from a greater distance than the artillery could, completely out ranging the mammy, and it could decimate repair teams camping behind the mammoth with the sheer splash damage of it's napalm missiles, forcing GDI to send out some TOW Humvees or flank it thru tunnels with rocket troops to try to pick it off. I'd imagine the SSM functioning similar to the V2 in A Path Beyond, only with two weaker missiles instead of one stronger missile, and for balance sake, it should probably not out range the AGT and Obelisk like it does in the OG Command & Conquer game.

You know what would be awesome? Have the SSM Launcher have left click be firing the left missile and right click fire the right, with separate reload times, so a skillful driver could time his shots consecutively.

Ahh the possibilities. Respect to your dev team but I think you guys are missing out here with the bike. Follow through with your original idea of implementing it fully, at least only for quick public test purposes. Waste not the newly made unit.

+1 for the SSM Launcher

That was another vehicle that, like the other vehicles, has both a Tiberian Dawn and Renegade version of the model:

Tiberian Dawn/C&C 95 version:

C&C Renegade version: 

[Handepsilon]

DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr, this is your third warning. If you can't state your opinions without being civilized, I will start giving you warning points

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

10 hours ago, Handepsilon said:

DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr, this is your third warning. If you can't state your opinions without being civilized, I will start giving you warning points

You're gonna have to specify this latest warning. Was it because I said this to buttons: "What is wrong with you?" That was a friendly enough jab at the fact that she is one of the devs, and yet she still says Nod wrong lol. I forgot to put in a smiley face to lighten the delivery. Oops. And to be fair, the EA Games development team made the same mistake when they revisited the C&C franchise to make C&C3. When they started sending out news letters talking about the game, they too had mistakenly abbreviated Nod to NOD. We actually had to send them emails correcting them.

I also told buttons she didn't have an argument. Which is true, and not "uncivilized" to say so. And as a favor for you, I edited that comment to make it more "civilized". You're welcome, cupcake.  🤣

So far the only person who actually has a somewhat valid argument based on FACTS and not opinion about why the bike isn't on the main roster is Lav4Dragon. But his reason is flawed - it doesn't make sense to not include the bike because the devs didn't want to include a heavy tank? ???

The Bike adds one more flavor of light vehicle. So now we get APC, buggy/humvee, and bike/TOW humvee. I doubt that's gonna affect late game in any negative way, and early game is enhanced with that extra flavor.

So I believe. There's only one way to find out for sure.

21 hours ago, Marinealver said:

But I was wondering just to say throw balance in the mix lets give the GDI another tank. Something with a little more specialized role. Here are some options.

• Telsa Tank It is already in and might not be exactly fitting of GDI's battle doctrine as one could argue the Telsa tanks like hte flame tank is more of a terror weapon than a combat weapon. I mean GDI kept the supertank from the Soviets (assuming RA Soviet campaign is cannon).
• Tank Destroyer Again the question is what role would it fill since Nod only has light tanks. An antivehicle weapon that doesn't have a turret so you have to face what you are shooting at.
• Rail Gun Tank Okay now we are talking, this would be a Tank Destroyer on Steroids. Now again GDI doesn't need any vehicle to go up against Mammoth Tanks since they own the monopoly on it but it could serve as another artillery piece for GDI.

Either way, I am still waiting for Orca Bombers and Banshees to become Tech Air Vehicles.

Like I said, in direct response to the bike the devs could make a TOW rocket humvee, which is similar in stats and role, and is lore friendly enough, and I repeat HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE IN ORIGINAL RENEGADE to decent success on most maps. Meaning, this is a no-brainer: go for it! The TOW Humvee would also be a very easy model to make - just take the existing Humvee model and swap out it's machine gun with a new rocket launcher. Remember, it'd take a shit ton of work (and this ain't really work it's a hobby) for the devs to make something totally new, like a Railgun tank. Or maybe not; if these guys are passionate about it they can do it.

Dawn of the Tiberium Age resurrected a cancelled unit from C&C1 called the Microwave Tank. Although it's a Nod unit, we could give it to GDI (or both?) The best part is the concept of it's weapon has already made it's way into Renegade X, in the form of EMP grenades. The Microwave Tank is a medium armored tank chassis with an EMP gun. In theory it would serve as a counter to fast rushes (like Recon Bike/TOW Humvee rushes) by stopping the vehicles dead in their tracks for a few moments, allowing defenders to swoop in and curbstomp them.

https://cnc.fandom.com/wiki/MGT-1A_microwave_gun_tank

---

Also, Orca Bombers and Banshees as crate units? lol, that'd be epic. The Banshee would be insane. A proper Banshee is like a UFO, it uses anti grav tech. That thing could go from Earth to space in like less than one minute. lol, so in game they had to tone it down; it acts more like your typical human fighter bomber jet aircraft, instead of an inter dimensional teleporting Annunaki UFO.

17 hours ago, CoreDefender said:

 

+1 for the SSM Launcher

That was another vehicle that, like the other vehicles, has both a Tiberian Dawn and Renegade version of the model:

Tiberian Dawn/C&C 95 version:

C&C Renegade version: 

Yeup, there it is! It even had a working description and everything! The Renegade SSM Launcher has been modded to work properly in multiplayer - it's weapon was a single fire giant missile that killed infantry fast and tore chunks out of tanks with direct hits, but most of all, this thing WRECKED buildings with it's range and huge damage, with splash damage going thru the walls killing Engineers. These things ended camp fests. A glass cannon ($700)

The original SSM Launcher with the two rockets has been modded into Interim Apex, aka Imperial Age, the crazy new Renegade standalone mod, well, total conversion at this point. This SSM Launcher is more mobile and faster than the Renegade one, and they have a turret, and if the two rockets hit the same target then this SSM's damage output is almost the same as Renegade's, only slightly weaker. A more advanced artillery unit ($750)

Edited October 21, 2019 by DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

I played a game on the map Walls; using an Attack Buggy I'd flank right side to stop MLRS's from camping our HON. <--- See? Now that's an abbreviation - Hand of Nod. You dumbasses, lol. Anyways, the whole time while playing, I was thinking "God dayum, for $200 bucks more, I could get a bike to take down those MLRS's myself, without the aid of a rocket soldier passenger or a light tank supporting me."

The bike would work perfectly in that map just like it does in OG Renegade. To counter the bike, just use the same counters you use to the buggy. Like the Ramjet. The Ramjet is perfect for taking out buggies/bikes, just like it does in OG Renegade. Also, adding the recon bike will encourage more use of the anti-tank mine; in the map Walls there is one chokepoint vehicle entrance, so you can mine it no problem. Also,  Orca's going up a against a Bike would have about the same difficulty they would have when dealing with Rocket Soldiers. It'll be slightly harder but hey, the Bike is anti-air anyways, and it has less health than an Orca does. So you'll be fine, sunshine.

- - - - - - - - - - -

The player base is missing out for no good reason other than a last minute dev decision enacted because they didn't want to upset the few people on the forums complaining, according to Lav4star. No offense Lava4star but that's bullshit - the many people who don't use the forum wouldn't have a problem. They already accepted the over-powered Attack Cycle in their LakeSide map rotation, so I'm sure they can handle a mainline and balanced Recon Bike.

And if it turns out there is something wrong that was unforeseen, we just take it out. The majority of the player base will not mind experimenting with a new addition.

Edited October 21, 2019 by DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr

[DenWellingston]

10 hours ago, Handepsilon said:

If you can't state your opinions without being civilized, I will start giving you warning points

Does he hear? I have many times explained to other users that yes how, but he is on his own wave.

 

14 minutes ago, DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr said:

Also Orcas going up a against a Bike would have about the same difficulty they would have dealing with Rocket Soldiers. It'll be slightly harder but hey, the Bike is anti air anyways and it has less health than an Orca.

You understand that this will complicate the game even more? (Mines, by the way, are easy to spot and shoot with conventional explosives.) Euan-missile has clearly explained the principles of the parties: GDI-hammer, NOD-knife. Each has its own approach and its own tools to achieve the goal. Why add a well and something else to rock-paper-scissors? Okay, I and the rest of the players, but what about the newbies?
Roveboat and the rest of the players explained their position here, especially to the point hit. Plus, if a huge fleet of vehicles is added to the game, then this is a completely different game like MPF or Interium Apex. I definitely don't need this. None of the newcomers will be happy about this in this “dump” of tanks.

If you still want to add a motorcycle to the game, then why not organize a separate server / mod for this? I myself make a mod for the sounds of weapons, although it is limited in time. So it will be easier for you to understand whether all this suits the game or not.

However, you are unlikely to hear them, including me. The conversation ends with you and you will draw conclusions on all this. The argument here will not lead to anything. Just the thing.

[Marinealver]

7 hours ago, DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr said:

You're gonna have to specify this latest warning. Was it because I said this to buttons: "What is wrong with you?" That was a friendly enough jab at the fact that she is one of the devs, and yet she still says Nod wrong lol. I forgot to put in a smiley face to lighten the delivery. Oops. And to be fair, the EA Games development team made the same mistake when they revisited the C&C franchise to make C&C3. When they started sending out news letters talking about the game, they too had mistakenly abbreviated Nod to NOD. We actually had to send them emails correcting them.

I also told buttons she didn't have an argument. Which is true, and not "uncivilized" to say so. And as a favor for you, I edited that comment to make it more "civilized". You're welcome, cupcake.  🤣

So far the only person who actually has a somewhat valid argument based on FACTS and not opinion about why the bike isn't on the main roster is Lav4Dragon. But his reason is flawed - it doesn't make sense to not include the bike because the devs didn't want to include a heavy tank? ???

The Bike adds one more flavor of light vehicle. So now we get APC, buggy/humvee, and bike/TOW humvee. I doubt that's gonna affect late game in any negative way, and early game is enhanced with that extra flavor.

So I believe. There's only one way to find out for sure.

Like I said, in direct response to the bike the devs could make a TOW rocket humvee, which is similar in stats and role, and is lore friendly enough, and I repeat HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE IN ORIGINAL RENEGADE to decent success on most maps. Meaning, this is a no-brainer: go for it! The TOW Humvee would also be a very easy model to make - just take the existing Humvee model and swap out it's machine gun with a new rocket launcher. Remember, it'd take a shit ton of work (and this ain't really work it's a hobby) for the devs to make something totally new, like a Railgun tank. Or maybe not; if these guys are passionate about it they can do it.

Dawn of the Tiberium Age resurrected a cancelled unit from C&C1 called the Microwave Tank. Although it's a Nod unit, we could give it to GDI (or both?) The best part is the concept of it's weapon has already made it's way into Renegade X, in the form of EMP grenades. The Microwave Tank is a medium armored tank chassis with an EMP gun. In theory it would serve as a counter to fast rushes (like Recon Bike/TOW Humvee rushes) by stopping the vehicles dead in their tracks for a few moments, allowing defenders to swoop in and curbstomp them.

https://cnc.fandom.com/wiki/MGT-1A_microwave_gun_tank

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Also, Orca Bombers and Banshees as crate units? lol, that'd be epic. The Banshee would be insane. A proper Banshee is like a UFO, it uses anti grav tech. That thing could go from Earth to space in like less than one minute. lol, so in game they had to tone it down; it acts more like your typical human fighter bomber jet aircraft, instead of an inter dimensional teleporting Annunaki UFO.

Yeup, there it is! It even had a working description and everything! The Renegade SSM Launcher has been modded to work properly in multiplayer - it's weapon was a single fire giant missile that killed infantry fast and tore chunks out of tanks with direct hits, but most of all, this thing WRECKED buildings with it's range and huge damage, with splash damage going thru the walls killing Engineers. These things ended camp fests. A glass cannon ($700)

The original SSM Launcher with the two rockets has been modded into Interim Apex, aka Imperial Age, the crazy new Renegade standalone mod, well, total conversion at this point. This SSM Launcher is more mobile and faster than the Renegade one, and they have a turret, and if the two rockets hit the same target then this SSM's damage output is almost the same as Renegade's, only slightly weaker. A more advanced artillery unit ($750)

Well I was thinking also along the lines of a Tech Helipad which gives you the Heavy flyers. They are awesome in Air to ground roles but have practically no air to air capabilities. Banshess are different as their plasma cannons are direct fire weapons which means all they have to do is point at their target and shoot. With their hover like flight it can be a scary thing to meet. Orca Bombers will have to fly over their target but their carpet bomb capabilities can cover a lot of ground and do a lot of damage.

[roweboat]

Just a reminder to voice your opinion through the poll here: 

 

Even if nothing comes of it, I still think its interesting to see where it stands. Currently with 26 votes and its basically 50/50 lol.

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

3 hours ago, DenWellingston said:

Does he hear? I have many times explained to other users that yes how, but he is on his own wave.

 Nothing you have said has refuted any of my points. You have brought up potential problems and I have offered plenty of solutions, which you still haven't acknowledged.

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You understand that this will complicate the game even more? (Mines, by the way, are easy to spot and shoot with conventional explosives.)

I fully understand that this will barely complicate the game at all, as I've already explained to you numerous times. lol do you hear me, chum? Huh? Are you actually paying attention there buddy boy? I have detailed to you PLENTY of counters to the bike. The anti-tank mines is one out of 10+ of my suggestions, don't just jump in after an absence and nitpick that one. This is a forum, you're supposed to thoroughly read ALL THE REPLIES before making your own. Since you don't speak English you must be having a hard time reading thru all of my comments thoroughly.

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Euan-missile has clearly explained the principles of the parties: GDI-hammer, NOD-knife. Each has its own approach and its own tools to achieve the goal. Why add a well and something else to rock-paper-scissors? Okay, I and the rest of the players, but what about the newbies?
Roveboat and the rest of the players explained their position here, especially to the point hit.

lmao this is complete useless drivel here. Forget your half-assed analogies. Roweboat said nothing other than "Vote in the poll" then there's you and a couple others here who have done nothing except say "I don't like the idea." You also posed some potential scenarios ALL OF which I refuted, assuring that your meta game will stay intact.

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Plus, if a huge fleet of vehicles is added to the game, then this is a completely different game like MPF or Interium Apex. I definitely don't need this. None of the newcomers will be happy about this in this “dump” of tanks.

Huge fleet of vehicles? What in the god damn hell are you talking about? IT'S ONE BIKE. And maybe the TOW rocket humvee.

No offense bud, but this is retarded. You are not fit for debating this at all, lol. I'm sorry but it's true. Adding a bike is not a "fleet of vehicles," for fucks sake. Adding a bike is not gonna turn Renegade X into Interim Apex. You are just spouting random non-sense at this point.

Do yourself a favor and stop responding. You've said your piece - you don't like learning new things, plus you have a reading handicap, hence most of my information will be lost to you. All you're doing is repeating your rigid stance without trying to see the answers.

Ultimately you are a vocal minority, and ultimately you will not care if there is a bike for Nod to buy. You will still play the game as you always have.

[NodSaibot]

I think both sides have had their say in the matter. Nothing more left to be said in the thread.