Announcment From FPI

[TomUjain]

Just now, Sarah. said:

Your "points" have no gravity. At least I tried to moderate, meanwhile it seems every mod is pretty unhelpful. And what do you mean "screenshots"? You seem to paint this picture that I was some mod who liked to randomly ban or kick people. At least I did something when shit got crazy. Don't forget how I updated, configured and kept the RenX server running a good portion of the time. I also happily made you mutators, but you seem to forget this fact and want to make it seem like I wasn't integral in FPI's rise. I personally seeded that server many times in the early hours of the morning, because I believed it could be better. Unfortunately I can't time travel, because I would do it differently if I could.

The official server was never seeded, and it's currently have host issues, so it doesn't really make sense to gauge "community approval" by who gets in what server, since we all know it comes down to who seeds. You observed this, and it took you pretty long to catch on to it. If we didn't seed in the "early" days, nobody would join. There's no "oh FPI is cool, let's join there", so please don't even try to say people like FPI more based on the fact that it's populated.

6 minutes ago, TomUjain said:

Sarah, without screenshots how do I know it took place? By extention -- I could say you harassed me now and just hope people take my word for it. Granted mods should be in game to see it (but if they are not doing their job and it is taking place, we need to know - else how can we do anything?) at the very least do a modrequest.

You did try to moderate Sarah, and i'm thankful you did. Its a shame things turned out the way that they did. I have never, ever taken direct credit for the work someone else has done, never -- but at the same time, I don't expect people to hold their work to ransome either.

Believe it or not, I wanted the offical server to take off -- more servers / ideals is a healthy thing. No, it wasn't seeded but FPI doesn't require as much seeding now either, despite 6 months a go when it was a 'seed war' players did tend to lean towards FPI. Am I boasting? No, I think FPI has a lot of room to grow, and believe it or not this thread is something I will take to heart and try to address the issues raised.

We no longer have a 'stacked' rule in place.

So my mods should be leaving everyone alone, unless things get royally screwed -- then players can request a manual shuffle where teams will be randomly shuffled without bias.

IRC churns out a hell of a lot of text, 1000s and 1000s of lines -- and it doesn't account for PMs, which we also still classify as harassment.

[Madkill40]

9 minutes ago, TomUjain said:

and you have no screenshots to boot.

What is the point in an IRC if you also need screenshots?

Anyway, your tiff and squabble with Sarah seems very counter-productive to the point of this thread doesn't it? 

Sarah can be Sarah, Sarah has herself. That being Sarah. She banned me from FPI once for something I said in discord which was total bullshit, I didn't even realize Sarah was even that good at RenX but you seem to be using her past to disregard her opinion in the present and that is a really good way to justify why you shouldn't listen to somebody who contradicts what you're saying... [Not a good thing by the way]

Much like we tolerate Ryz and his obnoxiously bias stance towards the aforementioned experienced players in this thread we still actually listen to what he says and deliver an proper counter-argument, But Ryz the guy who has a bit of an following in FPI for being an decent commander in public games - somebody who is one of your mods, right?

Yet, why do I get the feeling he's part of the reason why this mentality towards the aforementioned experienced players has gone so far that you, @TomUjain feel like you can criticise the dev's for not listening yet you've barely said a word towards numerous posts of mine in here - bit odd considering my posts are contradicting you and your mods' points regarding this bizarre issue created by what was once the toxic few but now the toxic mob of XBitches. "people who aggressively idolize but envy a player who is better than them"

I love how my first post which included an short experiment about player mentality was overlooked, was it because I initially agreed with a small part of something Agent touched on at the beginning of my post so you thought you were answering two posts with one despite my post serving its own? Was it because it doesn't follow what you may have concluded from your experiment? Is there some actual bias because of some silly past experience with AlienX?

It'd be great to get an actual response. Maybe you just think I'm being retarded for thinking that the problem is the player mentality of somebody who doesn't believe in themselves (XBitches) Vs somebody who has just spent a lot of hours playing Renegade X... Totally insane, right? Or maybe just moderate somebody who vents their frustrations directed towards experienced players so newbies don't get this horrible toxic representation which is an fraction of the community but a fraction you've made it clear you're willing to cater towards...

[Madkill40]

23 minutes ago, Sarah. said:

You seem to paint this picture that I was some mod who liked to randomly ban or kick people. At least I did something when shit got crazy. Don't forget how I updated, configured and kept the RenX server running a good portion of the time. I also happily made you mutators, but you seem to forget this fact and others listed above and want to make it seem like I wasn't integral in FPI's rise. I personally seeded that server many times in the early hours of the morning, because I believed it could be better. Unfortunately I can't time travel, because I would do it differently if I could.

Just going to say this now @TomUjain Sarah's influence had an direct result in FPI's success. For the longest time I thought FPI was Sarah's server and I doubt I am alone here. Sarah has definitely helped your server and that's incredibly redeemable and yes, somebody who may take certain liberties because they've put an untold amount of effort into something is immediately in the wrong - But somebody who tries to hide somebody else's effort? That's a much worse and potentially manipulative person  

[Guest once upon the time]

Congratulations to all (irony)
Here is just the best anti advertising for a great game made.☹️
Too bad that it is so and unfortunately not very adult in my view.🙁

[TomUjain]

2 minutes ago, Madkill40 said:

What is the point in an IRC if you also need screenshots?

Anyway, your tiff and squabble with Sarah seems very counter-productive to the point of this thread doesn't it? 

Sarah can be Sarah, Sarah has herself. That being Sarah. She banned me from FPI once for something I said in discord which was total bullshit, I didn't even realize Sarah was even that good at RenX but you seem to be using her past to disregard her opinion in the present and that is a really good way to justify why you shouldn't listen to somebody who contradicts what you're saying... [Not a good thing by the way]

Much like we tolerate Ryz and his obnoxiously bias stance towards the aforementioned experienced players in this thread we still actually listen to what he says and deliver an proper counter-argument, But Ryz the guy who has a bit of an following in FPI for being an decent commander in public games - somebody who is one of your mods, right?

Yet, why do I get the feeling he's part of the reason why this mentality towards the aforementioned experienced players has gone so far that you, @TomUjain feel like you can criticise the dev's for not listening yet you've barely said a word towards numerous posts of mine in here - bit odd considering my posts are contradicting you and your mods' points regarding this bizarre issue created by what was once the toxic few but now the toxic mob of XBitches. "people who aggressively idolize but envy a player who is better than them"

I love how my first post which included an short experiment about player mentality was overlooked, was it because I initially agreed with a small part of something Agent touched on at the beginning of my post so you thought you were answering two posts with one despite my post serving its own? Was it because it doesn't follow what you may have concluded from your experiment? Is there some actual bias because of some silly past experience with AlienX?

It'd be great to get an actual response. Maybe you just think I'm being retarded for thinking that the problem is the player mentality of somebody who doesn't believe in themselves (XBitches) Vs somebody who has just spent a lot of hours playing Renegade X... Totally insane, right? Or maybe just moderate somebody who vents their frustrations directed towards experienced players so newbies don't get this horrible toxic representation which is an fraction of the community but a fraction you've made it clear you're willing to cater towards...

Not overlooked MadKill40, this thread took off like a firefly, even as I type -- more responces are being posted before I even finish this.

and i've not had the time to go over any older points. As I said IRC is great, but it churns out a lot of text -- and it does not record PMs between players; if no mods are in game it is always good pratice to do a mod request or screenshot, it doesn't take long and makes out lives easier.

No, I don't think you are being retarded -- I said I hate the word 'elite' or 'good' player, but they do have an effect on gameplay, granted they do not define a 100% chance to win. I do believe player mentaility may have some part in it, but fustration also plays a part in the issue -- if 3 - 4 good snipers get one one team for example and just spam kill Inf over and over from 500 miles away then I think that is a strong argument for people not wanting to play.

 

As I said before: FPI has room to grow, and the issues raised here will be taken to heart and looked through. I'm glad (partly) this thread blew up the way that it did. I founded FPI on decomaracy and intend to keep pushing for that direction; as I said in my last post -- players can stack, mods won't go after anyone for stacking -- regardless of who you are. But if things get too rough players can request a team shuffle (see rules thread)

I'm tired, but if I missed anything you want me to address MadKill I would be happy to. Applogies if I missed anything.

 

[Ryz]

Well final reaction for today @Madkill40 cause I got to go soon and I guess we won't get closer to eachother.

I don't get why you make this personal cause for me it isn't:

1) I didn't mention and names untill at least one person, who does not recognize herself in my post, starts defending herself cause the feels it's about her... 

2) You state your opinion as a fact while ignoring other opinions. I just said I am vocalizing what many people think and which can be proven if by checking many posts here and on Discord. I kept all my messages polite and showed I was open for other opinions about for example the reaction from Agent about disabling commander powers... You can disagree stacking isn't a problem and state that as a fact, just check the various topics where people tell the opposite...

3) I havent played Ren-x a lot lately cause of work, I think i've only commanded a few times past month. I think my ingame behaviour has nothing to do with this polite discussion I am trying to have here

Goodnight!

Edited June 4, 2019 by Ryz
typo

[Madkill40]

1 minute ago, TomUjain said:

do believe player mentaility may have some part in it, but fustration also plays a part in the issue

These are the exact same issue if this and other threads similar to this are anything to go by. 

2 minutes ago, TomUjain said:

if 3 - 4 good snipers get one one team for example and just spam kill Inf over and over from 500 miles away then I think that is a strong argument for people not wanting to play.

Map depending, this isn't typically the be-all-end-all for players - We've all not thought to ZigZag in our own base on C&C Walls but most of us learned from this, now my ZigZag game is so strong I've been able to get up close to those snipers and, as @kira indirectly quoted me earlier I have been able to kill or at least weaken the sniper. Snipers are weak to free infantry, because they ignore them or get cocky yet I've killed Sakura's with an Grenedier and Havoc's Flamethrowers. This is the only advantage experienced and regulars have over newbies - they know how to counter. This entire game with its units has that tactical counter which it inherited from its father franchise. 

Instead of catering towards any players' frustration (which is rarely a good thing, just look at any child that gets everything they want and then see how they react when they're finally told "no") try instead to find out the scenario they were in then inform them how to improve if they can't figure it out themselves. 

You want an solution against Snipers? Max of 1VP if an sniper kills any free infantry regardless of the free infantry's veterancy. [This may already be a thing actually...] 

Snipers are so fragile and I don't understand why people think they're impossible, maybe if they spent less time venting in all-chat they wouldn't get shot so much..? [that is a joke, this thread needs at least one intentional joke]

[Madkill40]

11 minutes ago, Ryz said:

Well final reaction for today @Madkill40 cause I got to go soon and I guess we won't get closer to eachother.

I don't get why you make this person cause for me it isn't:

1) I didn't mention and names untill at least one person, who does not recognize herself in my post, starts defending herself cause the feels it's about her... 

2) You state your opinion as a fact while ignoring other opinions. I just said I am vocalizing what many people think and which can be proven if by checking many posts here and on Discord. I kept all my messages polite and showed I was open for other opinions about for example the reaction from Agent about disabling commander powers... You can disagree stacking isn't a problem and state that as a fact, just check the various topics where people tell the opposite...

3) I havent played Ren-x a lot lately cause of work, I think i've only commanded a few times past month. I think my ingame behaviour has nothing to do with this polite discussion I am trying to have here

Goodnight!

If you push an agenda and make a point lets not go playing the victim card here, I pointed you out and bigged up your commander game in public games - but when people started to put you in the category of being really really really good all it took was to cull that mentality from people to prop you up on a pedestal, you're as good as any other experienced player. But I'm still going to point you out as somebody who has in the past been very vocal that it is the experienced player's fault than those with frustration towards the experienced player, and you still have this stance and its a silly stance because you should know better than anybody that frustration does not make you victorious.

[TomUjain]

31 minutes ago, Madkill40 said:

 Sarah's influence had an direct result in FPI's success. For the longest time I thought FPI was Sarah's server and I doubt I am alone here. Sarah has definitely helped your server and that's incredibly redeemable and yes, somebody who may take certain liberties because they've put an untold amount of effort into something is immediately in the wrong - But somebody who tries to hide somebody else's effort? That's a much worse and potentially manipulative person  

...I have never taken credit for the work (anyone) else has done MadKill, and never will -- as I have said in my last post. Everyone on the mod team works hard, despite our political differences on various issues. I've done all I can on my end, and from the very start (when I announced the server last year) I told you guys that it wasn't going to be smooth as we 'ironed' out and grew.

All I can do is grow and address the issues as they come by, try to 'steady the ship' as it were -- and that is what I will continue to do. Anyone can approch me regardless of who or what you are and I will always give you time.

The snipers was just a point -- if a match is one sided; and it is carried over again, and again, and again it fustrates everyone. You've been in sessions like that, no? Look, i'm saying this again -- I want a community, I still want a community. Dividing players up was never my intention; I simply wanted games that were not one sided and thought a good way around that would be to restrict team swaps. Was it a good idea? I don't know, perhaps a bad judment call -- but always the risk you take for putting out new ideas.

Perhaps my stance on how to move forward was wrong. I've removed the complex stacking rule, so anyone is free to play with whoever, for as long as you like, over as many sessions as you like -- but a shuffle is still in place for really, really bad sessions.

Regardless, i've taken what's been said here to heart and will reflext on the points made. If you guys feel so strongly that FPI is a problem, then I will take it down (not being passive-aggressive here btw) I care about the communitys wellbeing

 

 

Edited June 3, 2019 by TomUjain

[Madkill40]

@TomUjain My one experience with you was straight forward and fine. My advice to you from Ex-Administrator of an GMod community to you would be this - Really try to ensure that your mod-team has the same agenda as you, who will uphold this as well and most importantly figure out who is just in it for their own selfish agenda. [They always show themselves up in the end so you really don't have to do anything to find them out]

Edited June 3, 2019 by Madkill40

[NodSaibot]

On 5/30/2019 at 9:35 AM, TomUjain said:

I founded FPI with Goku last year, mainly

 

[TomUjain]

1 minute ago, Madkill40 said:

@TomUjain My one experience with you was straight forward and fine. My advice to you from Ex-Administrator of an GMod community to you would be this - Really know who on your modteam actually has the same agenda as you and who is just in it for their own selfish agenda. [They always show themselves up in the end]

Thank you for the advice Madkill, and hope you can bare with us as we work this out.

[Madkill40]

54 minutes ago, TomUjain said:

So my mods should be leaving everyone alone, unless things get royally screwed -- then players can request a manual shuffle where teams will be randomly shuffled without bias.

I genuinely hope the manual shuffle is without bias, I hope to see an manual shuffle where none of the players who have been named in this thread are shuffled. 

[TomUjain]

I have told them to NOT pick out any specific player, we will see

@Sarah  I paid for the server box, Goku set it up for us -- in regards to any mutators and other code; Goku, Sarah (you) and HiHiHi wrote those for us.

Edit: forgot Iridesence ❤️

Edited June 3, 2019 by TomUjain

[Radeon3]

 

2 hours ago, Sarah. said:

2 hours ago, TomUjain said:

(and you have done some shady things in and outside of FPI)

Again, how is this related?

 

It kinda ruins your credibility being a hypocrat?
We served together on FPI, AGN, we used to be buddies during the CT times, hell even before that. I know how you operate and I'm just going scratch the surface for the sake of this "debate".
You are very resourceful and contributed a lot to FPI from the knowledge you gained at AGN. Nobody questions that and we are very greateful what you have done. You did your best as moderator as well, even if it sometimes resulted in the most out of the line moderation we've ever seen here. The moderation mishaps that may arise at FPI aren't intentional unlike the ones you commited, not to mention the difference in magnitudes. So pointing your finger at us really feel... off to me.

 

@Agent @Sarah.
Listen, I love every single line of code you've put into the game. But it won't make you right.
The problem is that you got disconnected from the community. For you Sarah I know this is normal, you stated yourself that you don't care about the community, it's all about playing with friends. I think everyone can respect that, but you also have to respect the community. In my eyes the enjoyment of the majority of the community worth more than a few people having fun. The community has been constantly expressing that had enough of the stacking. Currently we are even having a running poll which is not conclusive yet, but it clearly shows that the #1 problem RenegadeX currently facing is stacking.

And your reaction is to abolish FPI's measures whose aim is to improve on the player experience? Guys, please come back to the ground. What is this project all about? Is it about a game called RenegadeX as a developer sees how it should be, or is it about a game which is meant to be fun for the wide audience?

 

Edited June 3, 2019 by Radeon3

[NodSaibot]

37 minutes ago, Radeon3 said:

you stated yourself that you don't care about the community, it's all about playing with friends.

I never said I don't care, but having fun is important for me. "Ignoring" the community, as in ignoring all the bitchy and toxic people, is what more than a few of our devs do. We have had lengthy discussions about this with the seniors of the RenX team. This does not mean that we don't take feedback and we don't care what anyone says. Taking "not caring" out of context really makes it seem like I don't care about the game, which is a blatant lie. If I didn't care, I would have quit this game long ago, as it usually causes extra stress for me.

 

37 minutes ago, Radeon3 said:

if it sometimes resulted in the most out of the line moderation we've ever seen here.

and lol, in the end that really makes no difference, as there is no "lasting" impact on the community/game. Being "out of line" depends on the standards of those observing, and it's not really a good way to judge the applicability of someone else's statements on something completely unrelated.

 

37 minutes ago, Radeon3 said:

I know how you operate and I'm just going scratch the surface for the sake of this "debate".

I was a completely different person 6 years ago, and I don't really know if it's a fair thing to bring up things that were over 6 years ago, when 6 years is a large majority of my life time.

37 minutes ago, Radeon3 said:

And your reaction is to abolish FPI's measures whose aim is to improve on the player experience? Guys, please come back to the ground. What is this project all about?

A severely misguided effort that has only resulted in more people being angered and never really fixed anything. Just because we are the only devs who communicate with the community and participate in discussions, does not mean we are the only devs with this opinion. If we all tried to please everyone, we would be investigating half the game for aimbotting everyday. 

Edited June 3, 2019 by Sarah.
123

[--==00G==--]

On 5/30/2019 at 8:35 AM, TomUjain said:

 

8 hours ago, Jenzuj said:

As i said, in casual mode yes, in match making no and MM is where the majority of the playerbase are.
My point was that the statement was a load of bull

Its not a official server just because you say it is, you want it official you kind of need to pay for it and run it.
Otherwise as long as the server/moderation doesnt break ToS, you and any other dev for that matter shouldnt get involved.

By its definition isn't a pick-up game (PUG) the casual mode of play? We certainly seem to have dedicated the organized play as the competitive option.

EDIT: I have no idea why I have a random empty quote box quoting nothing from the 1st post. I'd confusey-face my own post if possible.

Edited June 4, 2019 by --==00G==--

[--==00G==--]

5 hours ago, Ryz said:

Also I know for fact people tried to talk to you, but you just ignore any comment / people you don't like.

You don't have to respond. I mean some times I have my music on loud, and ignore everyone.

[roweboat]

I just spent the last hour or so reading through all the posts here... oh my haha.

My two cents as nothing more than a "player" of the game:

I'm glad to see a healthy, if not nearly derailed discussion here. 

 

The common thread I see between posts is, everyone involved in this discussion wants the game to grow and prosper.

Don't forget that.

 

I'm sure some are more frustrated than others. Trying to do so much with so little. 

Bottom line, I think @TomUjain has learned some valuable takeaways from this. Thank you for all the hard work and coordination with FPI.

@limsup you are exactly right, this issue is only magnified because the community is small, people with vastly different views are becoming "too familiar" with each other and its causing conflicts that wouldn't exist otherwise.

@Madkill40 You got it. The issue is mostly team morale. But unfortunately, this is something I think most people lack as a general principle, not just in this game. Teams who think they will win, usually do. One's who think they will lose usually do. As a commander, I try my best to overcome that, but even so, convincing a random group of players through quickly moving chat text is difficult lol.

@poi even though we don't talk much, I always do enjoy the challenge, even if I waste $1000s of credits trying to run away from you lol

@Agent I agree 100%, no one should have to be forced to do anything, it takes all enjoyment from it. I think that was also the main point @kira was making. 

@Sarah. thank you for all your hard work on this game, it definitely shows! you're clearly very passionate about the game and its future.  

@Kaunas you got that right too, no amount of code will fix a very human problem.

@Ryz I respect your level-headedness. I know how it's frustrating to try and "motivate" players, we just have to give it our all and hope for the best =D

 

to re-itterate and and I've re-thought my comment from before. (someone else also mentioned this, I forgot who), that really. Whoever has been playing this game for a long time... understands the game mechanics fully, high K/D, understands the 'lingo', knows map quirks and strategy...

we shouldn't be asked to do less to make up for others, that's a good point. It's unfair and frankly unrealistic as a goal. But what should be put forth is a conscious effort to be highly aware of the surroundings. "do the vast majority of the players I'm going against understand the game like I do?" "sure, I'm having fun, but is everyone else?" 

 

Anywho. Just some food for thought. Kudos you all are cool in the boat-book =D

[--==00G==--]

3 hours ago, SilentKnight said:

Congratulations to all (irony)
Here is just the best anti advertising for a great game made.☹️
Too bad that it is so and unfortunately not very adult in my view.🙁

HEAR HEAR! Cheers!

[--==00G==--]

This post serves as a bookmarker for how far I've read. I'm sure this will be useful in the future.

[vandal33]

At least you guys are slightly better than the Renegade community. How Renegade multiplayer (as of now) isn't newbie friendly is even worse and some of the admins even said they don't care about growing the community (they said they tried and it failed).

We also have team-stacking problems, small playerbase, and most players being rude and childlish in general at the renegade community. Now, Renegade X has all of that too but I gotta admit the moderation team is friendly and nice (while Renegade's mods can be as toxic as the worst most toxic player here and they make up more than half of the toxic players there) so give yourselves a clap and continue what you're doing.

[Ryz]

7 hours ago, --==00G==-- said:

You don't have to respond. I mean some times I have my music on loud, and ignore everyone.

That's different when mods contact you about an issue. Wasn't refering to ingame chat, but not important for now.

[Radeon3]

11 hours ago, Sarah. said:

I never said I don't care, but having fun is important for me.

 

11 hours ago, Sarah. said:

Taking "not caring" out of context really makes it seem like I don't care about the game, which is a blatant lie. If I didn't care, I would have quit this game long ago, as it usually causes extra stress for me.

Nobody said that you don't care about the game. You certainly care about it and you do care about your friends as well, no questions about that. The problem is that you see playing with friends good; the community with plenty of toxic, "bitchy" people -as you refer to them- is bad. Therefore: fun with friends>community as a whole.
What actually is happening that stacking  (which is not only done by your group) potentially ruins games and yes it does generate some angry players. At the end, the community suffers the most not only because stackers can make games unenjoyable, but the very few toxic players make it worse as well.

 

11 hours ago, Sarah. said:

and lol, in the end that really makes no difference, as there is no "lasting" impact on the community/game. Being "out of line" depends on the standards of those observing, and it's not really a good way to judge the applicability of someone else's statements on something completely unrelated.

You are contradicting yourself. By your standards we could even kick the stackers as it has no "lasting" impact on the community/game. So what is this fuss all about then?

On a serious note, laughing at this really shows that you don't get it. When you take a noticeable action, you not only represent yourself, you represent your group as well. There's huge lasting impact being irresponsible for your actions: the lose of trust. The higher you up, the more impactful it is.  With responsibilities come standards and accountability. If you have been taken accountable for the way of your actions and proved wrong, then you missed the standards. Repeat it a few times and you are out of sync of the standards.

 

11 hours ago, Sarah. said:

A severely misguided effort that has only resulted in more people being angered and never really fixed anything.

Not really, but I do understand your perspective why it is one the worst thing could happen. But there's a bigger picture out there.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Radeon3

[SMayhew]

I wasn't going to say anything, but whatever...

The targeted abused aimed at @poi, @jpjtyld and @Sarah. quite frankly is shocking. Three players who have played this game for a long time, who are massive fans and love to play it, one of whom has dedicated so much time, energy and effort into making this game what it is today, and to see her treated with this level of disrespect is pretty poor to see.

Team switching was a much bigger issue a few years ago, even nowadays I see players on Discord all switching to be on the same team together and getting easy victories, those players don't get anything near to what these three players get. Why isn't there any effort to control those players from doing this? Or are we going to make one rule for some but not for others? Are we really going to have a Discord server for this game to encourage people to play together and then stop them from doing just that?

As I say, the abuse towards these three is targeted. The amount abuse that @poi in particular has had to put over the years has been shocking, and not a lot of effort has been made to stop it. Many players in the past and present have stacked, none of them have had this level of toxicity aimed towards them.

It's interesting how FPI seem more hellbent on punishing these three players for playing together, rather than dealing with the high level of toxicity in the community. It's almost as if they want to drive away these long term players, and want to preserve this toxic environment that attempts to push anyone away they don't like.

That poll posted in the other topic needs to have a 'toxicity' option. That's the bigger problem.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

[Jenzuj]

I like how some here have turned this topic in to a smearing campagin against FPI as a whole, it didnt even take long.

FPIs rules goes for everyone and thats the end of it, if you see a mod doing the bais shit you go to me, goku or tom with atleast names on the ones doing it. Nobody got time to scroll through all the logs to check one claim that someone did something sometime back.

I have lost count on how many complaints/modrequests we've gotten about stacking in general and im sad to say i cant recall the last time poi, jpj or sarah did a modrequest about abuse or mods not doing their job.
I've personally told people off, muted, kicked even tempbanned for sending way too much abuse towards poi and jpj, sadly tho thats only when i see it.
I can't do anything about anything if im not aware its happening.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Jenzuj

[Ryz]

Well @SMayhew...

Agent brought up the names of Sarah, Poi and JPJ. We never named them at all... So it seams like some people think it is our  'aim'  to target them while that is in fact not true. I guess, since people are pointing the conversation towards these three names, that the FPI rules have an influence on the way they can play and that's why a lot of people brought it up here? We were merely reacting on that, but now these three names overshadow the topic while this is about a bigger picture.

Infact the rules affect way more people but you do not hear them complain (via others) yet. Also I havent been ingame much latetly so I do not have the latest info, but I can assure you the rules were made to keep games fair and balanced and not aimed on ' punishing'  a few people. 

The rules also had ' negative'  effects on many of the FPI mods for example. I rather play GDI, as many of you are aware, and I could have easily switched myself to another team. Just I never did this and I stayed with the team I was assigned to for the sake of balance and to follow the rules. We might not always moderate  enough (or people do often not agree with decisions we make), but at least we are holding to our own standards. 

Before people started to swap teams again by using ' reconnect'  the games were usually way more balanced and longer lasting. I am not sure if you think 3 games in 30 minutes with one team totally slaughtered over and over are good for the playerbase? The changes by the developers team in combination with the teamswap disabled (why would you even auto balance teams if you can still go to where you want and change the balance?) proved that we could have funny games for both the winning and the losing team where the battle was ' fair'  and as balanced as possible. 

That is our goal... If we wanted to bully people I am sure we would have used / abused the (t)ban or kickhammer, which we never did. 

Edited June 4, 2019 by Ryz

[Rups]

1 hour ago, SMayhew said:

I wasn't going to say anything, but whatever...

The targeted abused aimed at @poi, @jpjtyld and @Sarah. quite frankly is shocking. Three players who have played this game for a long time, who are massive fans and love to play it, one of whom has dedicated so much time, energy and effort into making this game what it is today, and to see her treated with this level of disrespect is pretty poor to see.

Team switching was a much bigger issue a few years ago, even nowadays I see players on Discord all switching to be on the same team together and getting easy victories, those players don't get anything near to what these three players get. Why isn't there any effort to control those players from doing this? Or are we going to make one rule for some but not for others? Are we really going to have a Discord server for this game to encourage people to play together and then stop them from doing just that?

As I say, the abuse towards these three is targeted. The amount abuse that @poi in particular has had to put over the years has been shocking, and not a lot of effort has been made to stop it. Many players in the past and present have stacked, none of them have had this level of toxicity aimed towards them.

It's interesting how FPI seem more hellbent on punishing these three players for playing together, rather than dealing with the high level of toxicity in the community. It's almost as if they want to drive away these long term players, and want to preserve this toxic environment that attempts to push anyone away they don't like.

That poll posted in the other topic needs to have a 'toxicity' option. That's the bigger problem.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

 

What is also interesting is that the term "toxicity" seems to start being equated exclusively to complaining about stacking and/or calling people out on that. Of course some people cross the line into harassment, but it also feels an effort is made into generalizing anyone doing so into one big (toxic) group.

Let's not forget to attribute toxicity to intentional teamstacking when it results in one-sided games. It's no secret that a large amount of players do not enjoy getting destroyed repeatedly in one-sided games.... yet, causing this to happen repeatedly and intentionally is to be considered fair game? In fact, if anyone were to present this as an attack on "people just wanting to play together", I'd feel that would be an example of (intentionally?) misrepresenting the whole issue. The limitation on playing together seems to be "as long as it doesn't ruin the game for large groups of people. 

You refer to the poll, which does have a community option (which would be the obvious vote if toxicity from the community is your big deal), but if a seperate toxicity option were to be added, would people not vote on that as another way of voting for teamstacking? It also sounds like you're dismissing the fact that most votes are for teambalance. 

 

tl;dr: teamstacking is incredibly toxic if not dealt with properly.

[ex_member]

A lot has been said on this topic, some true and some questionable statements have been made.
As in any other project, there will always be problems to deal with, some technical, some related to human nature. A good start is to be aware of them and where they belong.
For sure some of problems mentioned here, do not belong in a public discussion.
I am sorry to see that some still did not learn to act as a professional and improve their communication skills, but rather get passionate and cannot handle the criticism.

Each and everyone of us has made his own experience and is reacting based on that, so did I.
I don't want to talk about my and how I ended up being stamped as a "shit-talker".

What I want is to see this community grow and this game prosper.
And I am sure every single nurse in this community would be happy to see this happen - as we are all addicted to this masterpiece.

Playing with friends - 100% support that.
I also 100% support that balanced teams provide the best game experience and push this game to its true potential.

There is a different responsibility if we talk about players and people in charge (devs/admins/mods).
On one hand, they should also be able to play with friends, but on the other hand, they have a greater responsibility - the community.
Therefore, in case where games get one-sided and people start leaving, mods/devs/admins should actually decide which team to join and provide more balance instead of trying just to play with friends and support one-sided games.
Sorry guys, but this should happen, otherwise you work against all the months/years you have put into this game.

I would also like to propose something, that from my point of view would help the game and the community:

1.) let the game pick 2 commanders at the beginning of each match
2.) allow players to select GDI or Nod as preferred and perhaps a role they would like to play, e.g. supporter, tanker, anti-inf, sneaker ...
3.) allow commanders to pick their teams in a short time window, e.g. 2-3 minutes
4.) if no teams picked in the foreseen time window, the system should mix the teams based on players selections

It is just an idea how all the issues about teams could be actually minimized and handed over to the commander roles.
Instead of arguing against each other, turning the past up and down, I would suggest to focus on something that could really help this game and the community.

 

dr.schrott

[Xtractor]

If a player doesn't have his share of wins imo he wont play much .Nobody likes a constant losing game.

Everybody likes to win ,and most guys that want to be with their friends is because the know they will have a chance to win with them,

May be fun to win all games but what about the others players that try to learn or fight to come better at this game.

Rebalance  after every games judging by k/d ratio and other datas.that way you will give a chance to give some "FUN" to other also.

But if you only care of your side then you may have fun but soon you will not have enought players to have fun against.

Want Renx to grow eveybody Devs included have to do their share in the gameplay

my 1/2 cent

 

 

[Guest once upon the time]

2 hours ago, ex_member said:

I would also like to propose something, that from my point of view would help the game and the community:

1.) let the game pick 2 commanders at the beginning of each match
2.) allow players to select GDI or Nod as preferred and perhaps a role they would like to play, e.g. supporter, tanker, anti-inf, sneaker ...
3.) allow commanders to pick their teams in a short time window, e.g. 2-3 minutes
4.) if no teams picked in the foreseen time window, the system should mix the teams based on players selections

It is just an idea how all the issues about teams could be actually minimized and handed over to the commander roles.
Instead of arguing against each other, turning the past up and down, I would suggest to focus on something that could really help this game and the community.

I guess that's too much of pub play in pug games over. A disadvantage will be with certainty that new players can not be properly "arranged", let alone know what they want to play. I would also be very stupid for my person if I were the last one to be "chosen" in a team.
You can do it as you suggested, but for me there are more shady sides.
Teamstacking would also not be less, unfortunately I see the problem more in the people who are stacking themselves.
I have no idea who does it and I will guard against blaming anyone here.

 

[TomUjain]

5 hours ago, SMayhew said:

 Discord all switching to be on the same team together and getting easy victories, those players don't get anything near to what these three players get.

This was the reasoning behind the whole removal of swap feature which has sparked a lot of this outrage. It pains me that the devs refuse to see this as an issue; when it is, aruably the biggist issue on the table. I could, if I wanted -- get all the FPI staff together and all stack to one team (all 12 of us) according to Agent, this is the behaviour we should be encouraging.

I agree, the hate channeled at a select few players is wrong. I always tried to treat Poi and J with respect and approched Poi several times to try and make something work. I also agree people SHOULD be able to play with friends but where is the line drawn? Is it accetable for 15 or so people to all hop onto one team (extream example) should we turn a blind eye to this? 4 or 5? I don't have the answer. I can, however say that pretending this isn't an issue won't put this debait to bed.

FPI has struggled to try and tame the issue all year and maybe (as I said) we were a little too over zealous on our approch. I do think a mechanical approch to solve this is greatly needed. I am rooting for this upcoming (or has it been put in yet?) team shuffler, it is a massive step in the right direction.

[Agent]

6 hours ago, TomUjain said:

if I wanted -- get all the FPI staff together and all stack to one team (all 12 of us) according to Agent, this is the behaviour we should be encouraging

If you can do that using legal team changes (i.e: not using mod/admin powers), I totally encourage you to play with your friends, have a good time, and by extension invite as many of your friends into the game to play with you so you can all have a good time. The important thing in games is to have fun, and in multiplayer games especially, to have fun with friends.

I also think it's an awesome idea to try to encourage high-skill players to try playing against each-other more often than not. Setting those into stone as rules however, as opposed to friendly encouragement, just creates a hostile environment and sets the stage for toxicity to brew not only among the mod team, but the player base in general as a whole. It's this toxicity and hostility, not the stacking itself, that's become the core issue. Developers, administrators, moderators, and players need to lead by example when possible. Leading by example and boosting your team's morale, and encouraging plans and action among your team, will always have a much larger impact than any single player or couple of players can ever hope for. Remember, it's really hard to get more than 2-3 players all on the same team due to the built-in rules behind team switching. In a 40+ player match (assuming no AFKs), morale is going to matter much more than specific players' skill levels.

I'm glad to see the stacking rule removed, but I do really want to see a conscious effort to improve attitudes and a shift towards better sportsmanship. Embracing sportsmanship as a core value, and consistently encouraging it, will inevitably create better team play and give everybody a much more enjoyable experience.

[RypeL]

The Team-Balancer is a server option. Servers have the choice to activate it or not. If its activated and some players found ways to change the team the balancer assigned them, then i can understand that some call this some sort of exploit. Although i understand the "wanting to play with friends" aswell. Its a double edged sword.

That something is possible doesent imply that its legal per se or good sportsmanship. As im currently in charge of the team balancer and the latest changes i will probably do further changes to make it harder to change from your assigned team  .... but before you get your forks: i also want to work on a squad system that allows you to play with your friends but then assignes you more of the weaker players if you are in a strong squad. This is in planning for a while but had no time and energy to do this yet. As this seems to be a important topic to a lot of people, i´ll prioritize this. I will open a thread about this later on with more details and for feedback.

[Kibax]

This thread has been a great read, thanks guys. 

Ignoring all of the politics, FPI is the best server going. I'm not sure why we have a developer threatening to remove it because they had a tiff with a moderator.

I don't really understand the big issue. People should just let people play and if there is a problem then why can't there be a random shuffle? Or a shuffle based on the top 5 players? I don't know, it just seems like this is all getting rather heated over a minor issue. 

Why not implement a random shuffle after each round? Surely that would fix all of this? 

More often than not, the issue is one team is better organised than the other anyway.