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Death count, k/d


Axesor
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Remove the deaths count and k/d ratio. Deaths count shouldnt be a thing in such a game with rts elements. It influences players decitions, and the way of playing bcs many ppl are obsessed with k/d. 

I think that the game would be a little bit more fun without it. Also ppl wouldnt be so scared when hunting down such a players such as poi, boxes etc. with free infantry or others :P

Or maybe replace it with max, or/and current kill streak count. That would be fun and original. :eek:

Edited by Axesor
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Being a teamplay based game, the mentioned stats could be changed to assist kills. It happens often that somebody takes down ~80-90% of his/her target's HP, then another player finishes it off.

In the above example, the player who made the most damage would receive the kill point, the one who finished it would receive the assist kill.

Alternatively, (if calculations to determine the biggest ratio seems too complicated to code) everybody who participated in damaging the target -let's say in the past 1 minute- receives an assist kill, and the finisher takes the kill point.

This way even if you are not good at killing, you still receive positive feedback that you are trying to do something.

By the way the VP system already working like this, but instead of Kill and Assist Points we receive VP.

 

 

Edited by Radeon3
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In the end, people who are conscious of KD or who play for KD won't change the reason they play. It's fun to them, it's the reason why they continue to log in every time to play. 

Hiding the stats won't accomplish any goal besides making noobs feel better about themselves for having a terrible KD by making it unviewable. 

The goal of the topic, in my opinion, is to persuade KD farmers and infantry players to play as a team, to play as a tanker. However, I don't think that people recognize the role and value that they have on a team. Most of the time, they can kill the sneakers before they get close, snipe repairs, cover nukes/ions, they can infantry spot rushes, or kill the rushes before they get close. They infuriate people, make them try to get revenge, spending precious credits on trying to kill that sniper. 

While this is not always the case, or recognizes, I think they are a valuable asset to any team. Just remember the pros of having a good KD player on your team.

Edited by Sarah!
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^

It is not surprising to see players with 0 kills and 10+ deaths, chilling on top of the leaderboards. It is unfair and dumb, considering that even throught players die, they contribute with their deaths to something bigger, just like it works in RTS games. Also considering that death count is taken negatively. Players can still farm kills if they want so.

...and so, in conclusion of this, my opinion is that scoreboard in such a game should show only possitive stats such as kills, assists, destroyed vehicles count, destroyed vehicles assists, and so...

And yes, it will defenitely make ppl feel better for what they are doing as a side effect.

Edited by Axesor
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On ‎2017‎.‎09‎.‎24‎. at 12:33 PM, Sarah! said:

In the end, people who are conscious of KD or who play for KD won't change the reason they play. It's fun to them, it's the reason why they continue to log in every time to play. 

I agree with you and while personally I don't hate them, they undeniably cause issues. Just look at how many post address them lately:

On ‎2017‎.‎09‎.‎24‎. at 12:33 PM, Sarah! said:

Hiding the stats won't accomplish any goal besides making noobs feel better about themselves for having a terrible KD by making it unviewable.

I know that you didn't mean to offend anyone by calling all the players with low KD noobs, yet it might be insulting for those, who valiantly repair tanks while being under fire, defending the base with basic infantry to win some time for their team, suicide to get back to base if there's an immidiate threat or the ones who take the extra steps to achieve their objective even if it means inevitable deaths.

On ‎2017‎.‎09‎.‎24‎. at 12:33 PM, Sarah! said:

The goal of the topic, in my opinion, is to persuade KD farmers and infantry players to play as a team, to play as a tanker.

I think this topic was made to remove something negative from the game in order to promote a more sensible approach to it. Can't be sure of the OP's intentention but I don't think it's about the KD farmers.

 

Therefore from this point on I consider my reply offtopic:

Spoiler

 

On ‎2017‎.‎09‎.‎24‎. at 12:33 PM, Sarah! said:

However, I don't think that people recognize the role and value that they have on a team.

I already expressed a few times why KD farmers aren't team players and your opinion finally made me to put this in perspective.

 

On ‎2017‎.‎09‎.‎24‎. at 12:33 PM, Sarah! said:

Most of the time, they can kill the sneakers before they get close

Couldn't be any more wrong with this. Infiltrators have the highest enviromental awareness in the game and even a decent  sneaker knows the KD farmers' location because they are loud -in terms of killfeed- and extremely predictable. Ask any other top infiltrator if you doubt this.

 

On ‎2017‎.‎09‎.‎24‎. at 12:33 PM, Sarah! said:

snipe repairs

I wish they would. Unfortunetelly this rarely happens because if they can shoot at field repairers, the tanks near them can return fire to protect their crew. Why risk lowering your KD when you can safely farm way more people in the tunnels/inf path?

 

On ‎2017‎.‎09‎.‎24‎. at 12:33 PM, Sarah! said:

cover nukes/ions

This is actually very helpful. If they have a sight on the enemy base and decide to focus on the disarmers.

 

On ‎2017‎.‎09‎.‎24‎. at 12:33 PM, Sarah! said:

they can infantry spot rushes

Any decent player can.

 

On ‎2017‎.‎09‎.‎24‎. at 12:33 PM, Sarah! said:

or kill the rushes before they get close

Not sure if it's good that one person stops a highly organised rush.

 

On ‎2017‎.‎09‎.‎24‎. at 12:33 PM, Sarah! said:

They infuriate people, make them try to get revenge, spending precious credits on trying to kill that sniper. 

Absolutely agree, this is a great tactic if I look at the numbers, problem is that this generates toxic behaviour. And if I look at the big picture, like what new players experience if they have to deal with this... I'd rather not address its implications now.

Personally I'd rather have a decent shooter who after losing half of it's HP don't cowardly run back to base to save his precious KD. Or someone who communicates well even if can't hit a stationary Mammoth or a dedicated base defender so I know that our base is in good hands or anyone who knows when to sacrifice his life to greatly help his team.

 

 

Edited by Radeon3
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.rank and !rank should be the only means of broadcasting your individual k/d.

The scoreboard should reflect how useful a player is to their team by not individually persecuting players with information which doesn't necessarily matter for the style of gameplay.

I.e. Make the scoreboard reflect the MVP stats better. 

Vehicle and infantry kills = Come under one stat. 

Building damage and harvester damage = Come under one stat.

Building, vehicle and infantry repairs = Come under one stat.

Benefit to team "ratio" = Total team score divided by your own score, e.g. 22,156÷3,456 = 6.41

At the top of the scoreboard by total score for GDI/Nod = Total Kills (infantry only) / Total Deaths (Infantry only) - A combined stat of all teams' kills and deaths.

These are relevant scores which will empower a team more than the current archaic stats.

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I think this would only lead to a lot of dumb suicidal attacks when a players life isn't as valuable. I'd actually want to se even more stats than kills. Destroyed vehicles, destroyed buildings, captured buildings, time inside vehicles etc etc

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4 hours ago, Radeon3 said:

I agree with you and while personally I don't hate them, they undeniably cause issues. Just look at how many post address them lately:

I know that you didn't mean to offend anyone by calling all the players with low KD noobs, yet it might be insulting for those, who valiantly repair tanks while being under fire, defending the base with basic infantry to win some time for their team, suicide to get back to base if there's an immidiate threat or the ones who take the extra steps to achieve their objective even if it means inevitable deaths.

I think this topic was made to remove something negative from the game in order to promote a more sensible approach to it. Can't be sure of the OP's intentention but I don't think it's about the KD farmers.

 

Therefore from this point on I consider my reply offtopic:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I already expressed a few times why KD farmers aren't team players and your opinion finally made me to put this in perspective.

 

Couldn't be any more wrong with this. Infiltrators have the highest enviromental awareness in the game and even a decent  sneaker knows the KD farmers' location because they are loud -in terms of killfeed- and extremely predictable. Ask any other top infiltrator if you doubt this.

 

I wish they would. Unfortunetelly this rarely happens because if they can shoot at field repairers, the tanks near them can return fire to protect their crew. Why risk lowering your KD when you can safely farm way more people in the tunnels/inf path?

 

This is actually very helpful. If they have a sight on the enemy base and decide to focus on the disarmers.

 

Any decent player can.

 

Not sure if it's good that one person stops a highly organised rush.

 

Absolutely agree, this is a great tactic if I look at the numbers, problem is that this generates toxic behaviour. And if I look at the big picture, like what new players experience if they have to deal with this... I'd rather not address its implications now.

Personally I'd rather have a decent shooter who after losing half of it's HP don't cowardly run back to base to save his precious KD. Or someone who communicates well even if can't hit a stationary Mammoth or a dedicated base defender so I know that our base is in good hands or anyone who knows when to sacrifice his life to greatly help his team.

 

 

They're only noobs if they care about their KD. I don't shame people who have low KDs, if they were actually useful. However, if someone is feeding tunnels because they are trying to be cool a get kills, that's something different.

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5 hours ago, Radeon3 said:

Personally I'd rather have a decent shooter who after losing half of it's HP don't cowardly run back to base to save his precious KD. Or someone who communicates well even if can't hit a stationary Mammoth or a dedicated base defender so I know that our base is in good hands or anyone who knows when to sacrifice his life to greatly help his team.

So running back to get a refill so the enemy cant kill you and get vp is a bad thing, and cowardly? Good to know. Next time i am an expensive 1000 cred character, i will make sure I die to be brave and a "decent" shooter. Giving the enemy team vp is super duper

Edited by Gliven
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1 hour ago, SvN91 said:

I think this would only lead to a lot of dumb suicidal attacks when a players life isn't as valuable. I'd actually want to se even more stats than kills. Destroyed vehicles, destroyed buildings, captured buildings, time inside vehicles etc etc

A player's life isn't valuable as it is, and suicide attacks can be very effective and smart to do. Just run into a building when the opportunity is there, always try, especially when you're free infantry or if you have enough credits coming in. That's what I do at least.

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Why are people still campaigning to get rid of a feature that people like, and others don't look at? If people are playing the k/d game, that is what they are going to do. Them not being able to see their stats wont change their behavior.

Off topic rant incoming

Spoiler

Also "teamwork" doesn't just mean participating in rushes like some people tend to think. If you can remove obstacles for your teammates you are being a good teammate. If you have someone who is really good at aiming and tracking sitting in the tunnel/infantry path, you know for a fact that no one is going to be able to get by them easily. Sure you CAN sneak by them, but how many times are you willing to try? how much time are you going to waste trying to sneak by that person?

- Good luck trying to use an airstrike when there is a sniper in the field.

- Sure a tank can shoot back at a sniper, but how many times are you actually able to kill them before they kill your repairs?

- A good sniper, or a person using a mobi/doza with excellent aim can control a large area practically on their own. How is area control a bad thing for your team?

When ever i hear or read anyone complaining about people who play the k/d game, is that they cant compete. They think their idea of "teamwork" is the only way. They think If you arent rushing to your death constantly in "organised attacks" you arent being a team player.

And toxic behavior? Whenever there is 2 entities competing there will always be showboating, name calling, etc.

Everyone needs to lighten the fuck up. Someone called you a bad name? OH NO! WE MUST REMOVE THE TOXIC.wsptoftc.jpg.05bfcc804e069f3f6240d89d8f1e872c.jpg

Are all of you from single child families? Never fought fiercely with a brother, called each other names. And then civil to each other and joking around the next minute?

Are you all bots? Do you get triggered whenever someone says (noob team) Does your brain shoot error codes whenever someone tea bags you?

 

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1 hour ago, Madkill40 said:

.rank and !rank should be the only means of broadcasting your individual k/d.

The scoreboard should reflect how useful a player is to their team by not individually persecuting players with information which doesn't necessarily matter for the style of gameplay.

I.e. Make the scoreboard reflect the MVP stats better. 

Vehicle and infantry kills = Come under one stat. 

Building damage and harvester damage = Come under one stat.

Building, vehicle and infantry repairs = Come under one stat.

Benefit to team "ratio" = Total team score divided by your own score, e.g. 22,156÷3,456 = 6.41

At the top of the scoreboard by total score for GDI/Nod = Total Kills (infantry only) / Total Deaths (Infantry only) - A combined stat of all teams' kills and deaths.

These are relevant scores which will empower a team more than the current archaic stats.

Exactly.

 

I care very little about K/D. I think my KD is something like +1.5. But my ranking on CT/globally is high, because I play the game as intended.

I'll be organizing a rush and leading it (being first to die many times lol), or out healing tanks or even charging a vehicle into an enemy rush, knowing I will die, but at least disrupting the incoming attack. =D

 

But I do understand the value of a high KD player.

I think basically all roles on the team necessary, just some more obvious than others (a sniper getting 100+ kills is more obvious then some dude healing a building the entire game)

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14 minutes ago, Gliven said:

Why are people still campaigning to get rid of a feature that people like, and others don't look at?

Death count is not relevant for the game like this.

 

14 minutes ago, Gliven said:

If people are playing the k/d game, that is what they are going to do. Them not being able to see their stats wont change their behavior.

Nobody wants to stop ppl from farming kills...

 

Also for everybody else: stop drawing discussion into personal attacks, thx. Calling ppl noobs for dying or performing rambo attacks is rly low, becouse even if you got 0 kills and 20+ deaths, you may do very usefull work for your team. This is thread about relevancy of mentioned stats.

Edited by Axesor
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Also the leaderboard on this website is based on overall points. It is all about quantity over quality. All you have to do to be at the top, is play the most games and eventually you will reach the top. You dont even need to get lots of points per match. you just need to get points period

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I can understand why you would want to know your stats on other things like tank kills, repair stats, etc. There is no need to get rid of the death count because you dont like it

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A death count can be usefull. 

I like to know how many times i have died compared to how much i have actually done. Did i throw my life away meaninglessly too many times trying to get that extra damage? Am i dying more often than i am gaining vp, giving the enemy team the vp advantage.

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3 minutes ago, Gliven said:

A death count can be usefull. 

I like to know how many times i have died compared to how much i have actually done. Did i throw my life away meaninglessly too many times trying to get that extra damage? Am i dying more often than i am gaining vp, giving the enemy team the vp advantage.

Sure, knowing exactly how many times you have died will defenitely change your gameplay possitively. Maybe after 10 deaths you will go chill in the building and repair instead of repairing vehicles in the field of playing offensive that leads to your teams victory. Or maybe after 20 deaths you go camp into the ocean. Very importatnt.. #kappa

No, death count will not change your style of playing.. your perception of reason will.

This is exactly what iam talking about...

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8 minutes ago, Axesor said:

Sure, knowing exactly how many times you have died will defenitely change your gameplay possitively. Maybe after 10 deaths you will go chill in the building and repair instead of repairing vehicles in the field of playing offensive that leads to your teams victory. Or maybe after 20 deaths you go camp into the ocean. Very importatnt.. #kappa

Id rather have someone afk repairing than constantly losing tanks or dying repeatedly. But no that is not what i do, or what i suggest others to do. I suggest try something else or try to approach from a different way, i.e use cover more, come from a different angle, use a different character/vehicle. Im not suggesting you go hide because you are dying lmao.

Does seeing your death count demoralize you? Do you think others seeing it demoralize them?

All this comes down to is, you want to get rid of a feature because YOU dont like it. Others want to be able to see their death count, including myself.
It is meaningless to you, but not to me.

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I personally really enjoy Rising Storm 2: Vietnam's Scoreboard.

It just displays the following values: Your role, your name, your kills, your score and your ping.
This way I don't get obsessed with deaths in a game where, big surprise, you get rifled down a lot.

Even vehicle kills don't get tracked, but the players with the most score are usually those who determine which team wins in the end. And the same applies to RenX too (more or less).

Kills are still interesting in every shooter. In the end you're shooting with rifles at someone else. If you're giving me the RTS argument, even Men of War tracks infantry you killed and infantry that got killed.

But in the end, the scoreboard is more or less fine in my opinion. It should have an assists tab instead of k/d, but that's just my two cents.

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Replacing the death counter (or KDR) with a vehicle kill counter would probably be a nice addition in terms of actually tracking personal performance compared to to other players -- kills are significantly more important than deaths in this game than deaths. If we do replace the death counter though, it needs to be something genuinely useful to know (such as vehicle kills), as opposed to arbitrary scores with no comprehensive meaning or purpose (something which was discussed internally sometime ago that I was wholeheartedly against).

With that said, I am against removing both KDR and the death counter -- people do enjoy seeing these stats, though having both is pretty redundant when there's more important information we could be displaying (such as vehicle kills).

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@Gliven All being said by me previously is still valid. Conscience, and perception of sence/your intelligence will determine the way of you playing, not death count and it defenitely should NOT be death count. Usually the ones who got low k/d are paradoxly the ones who do the most, and are the most usefull, and so death count is not something that shold be shown in the game like this since this is game with strong RTS elements and death count really does not mirror your value.

Also: I know your are very passionable about that but try to use Edit instead to avoid "comment streak". Its annoying as hell

Edited by Axesor
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6 minutes ago, Gliven said:

Very importatnt.. #kappa

It was very important that 3rd apc rush, with 5 apc with 15 gunners. That got obliterated by arties and flame tanks....Sure it was organised, sure it was good "teamwork" sure it looked cool. But did it really do anything other than waste your time and money? AND give the enemy team lots of veterancy. 

Very important to give up any kind of field control to have half your team sitting in base waiting around trying to collect and organize. While your buildings are being hammered. 
Very important to ignore the tanks shooting at you to MAYBE get armour break. Only to lose all your vehicles and then field control, and then have YOUR base seiged down instead.

Very Important to constantly run into the tunnels with free infantry to only die and give that sniper/mobi/doza extra VP so that they will rank up, and be harder to kill next time.

As long as you are doing something....right?

Im not saying the way to win is to sit around and wait, that is boring, and stupid, and will make you lose.
Im saying, don't go around dying needlessly only to give the enemy team an advantage.
Death is VERY important in a game with Veterancy. The more you die, the more of an advantage you are giving to the opposite team.

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8 minutes ago, Axesor said:

since this is game with strong RTS elements and death count really does not mirror your value.

Even in most, if not all rts games, you still get a number of how many units you lost vs how many you killed.

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6 minutes ago, Agent said:

If you just want to know your own personal deaths, then you probably want extended personal stats box of some sort added to the leaderboard, so you can see less team-relevant data. Could also move KDR there as well, actually.

So including your other post, I'm absolutely all in for this idea. 

Imagine having a bottom compartment that tells you in detail what you have done, similar to this: 750px-Scoreboard_UI.png?t=20140622194928

While just leaving the most important information in the grouped compartment. 

We could just move deaths and KDR to the bottom compartment, and replace them with assists, vehicle kills or whatever.
Since honestly, who does actually look at another players KDR, other than to call them a noob or a cheater lol. People primarily look at their own.

EDIT: Hey, did anyone else notice that TF2 is also displaying the roles? 

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5 minutes ago, Agent said:

If you just want to know your own personal deaths, then you probably want extended personal stats box of some sort added to the leaderboard, so you can see less team-relevant data. Could also move KDR there as well, actually.

This is more ideal than just getting rid of the k/d ratio. If it was just personal rather than posted to everyone. To be honest no one neeeds to know what you did, if the leaderboard only showed overall points to everyone, but a break down of what you personally did for only yourself would be ideal

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4 hours ago, KrypTheBear said:

So including your other post, I'm absolutely all in for this idea. 

Imagine having a bottom compartment that tells you in detail what you have done, similar to this: 750px-Scoreboard_UI.png?t=20140622194928

While just leaving the most important information in the grouped compartment. 

We could just move deaths and KDR to the bottom compartment, and replace them with assists, vehicle kills or whatever.
Since honestly, who does actually look at another players KDR, other than to call them a noob or a cheater lol. People primarily look at their own.

Personal stats at the bottom is a great idea.

So for the main scoreboard if the global scores per individual are what we want players to identify as what is important for the team...

Global individual list:

  • Name
  • Repairs Made
  • Infantry Kills
  • Vehicle Kills (Harvester included)
  • Building Damage 

Overall individual score doesn't seem necessary to me, unless people are against not having an overall individual score on display?

Global combined stats:

  • Total Team Score 
  • Team Kills (Inf & Veh) 
  • Team Deaths (Inf & Veh)

With stats like these then the 'V' menu could literally have one less column of numbers making it more clear.

  • Name /
  • Unit /
  • Credits 

Sidenote: regarding the 'V' menu, them stats need to be aligned to the right so that credits and unit info are easier to read.

  1. Player160 Adv. Engineer 1889
  2. Player16 Med T. 2885
  3. Pla2 Gunner 998
  4. Player1603252 Patch 767
  5. Platt164 MRLS 256
  6. Player165252 Adv. Engineer 244
  7. Play Rocket S. 354
  8. Player1605654646 Havoc 666
  9. Player1609525 Patch 252
  10. Player1610 Engineer  25

That is really annoying to see, whereas...

  1. Player160 Adv. Engineer  1889
  2. Player16 Med T.  2885
  3. Pla2 Gunner    998
  4. Player1603252 Patch    767
  5. Platt164 MRLS    256
  6. Player165252 Adv. Engineer    244
  7. Play Rocket S.   354
  8. Player1605654646 Havoc    666
  9. Player1609525 Patch    252
  10. Player1610 Engineer      25

That is way more clear to see whois what and how much they have 

 

Could player names get a prefix with veterancy? Either globally visible to everyone or only to team? 

  1. Rct. Player1998
  2. Vet. KrypTheBear
  3. Elt. Agent
  4. Hrc. Boxes 

Prefix changes for player-names upon promotion would be a nice touch.

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24 minutes ago, Madkill40 said:

Global individual list:

  • Name
  • Repairs Made
  • Infantry Kills
  • Vehicle Kills (Harvester included)
  • Building Damage 

I'm pretty much against adding "Repairs Made" and "Building Damage". Score is still decent (at least in concept) for ranking player performance. In fact if we add a personal stats box I really wouldn't be against just removing everything but Name, Score and Ping. Adding credits wouldn't be a bad idea though.

 

23 minutes ago, Madkill40 said:

Could player names get a prefix with veterancy? Either globally visible to everyone or only to team? 

Already planned, except we want to put the actual veterancy icon next to player names.

 

It's also worth noting though that all of this depends on an active UI developer, which quite frankly we do not have. The primary UI dev on the team already has a large backlog of tasks, in addition to being generally busy.

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2 minutes ago, Agent said:

Adding credits wouldn't be a bad idea though.

So long as the other team cannot see how many credits the other team has? 

3 minutes ago, Agent said:

I'm pretty much against adding "Repairs Made" and "Building Damage".

But these are points players need to recognise as important for the team? Overall score does not reflect that at all. ("Repairs Made" is all repairs made to Inf, Vehs and buildings just to be clear)

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1 hour ago, Madkill40 said:

But these are points players need to recognise as important for the team? Overall score does not reflect that at all. ("Repairs Made" is all repairs made to Inf, Vehs and buildings just to be clear)

1 hour ago, Madkill40 said:

 

They are possibly two of the most significantly portrayed scores in the current score system o. O? Left click champions are always near the top of the leaderboard. 

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7 hours ago, yosh56 said:

They are possibly two of the most significantly portrayed scores in the current score system o. O? Left click champions are always near the top of the leaderboard. 

So let it be part of the personal stats box? 

Globally it is just a place to rank you on your team somewhere, highest average would be a better way for players to be listed or they just remain static on the scoreboard and listed based on joining the game.

My score of 3000 doesn't inform me of anything other players could see and think: What is that player doing to get that score?

OldRen scoring system is mundane.

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On 23-9-2017 at 8:07 AM, Axesor said:

Remove the deaths count and k/d ratio. Deaths count shouldnt be a thing in such a game with rts elements. It influences players decitions, and the way of playing bcs many ppl are obsessed with k/d. 

I think that the game would be a little bit more fun without it. Also ppl wouldnt be so scared when hunting down such a players such as poi, boxes etc. with free infantry or others :P

Or maybe replace it with max, or/and current kill streak count. That would be fun and original. :eek:

I don't think removing the death count would change anything, some people just like to not waste their 1k credits within 5 mins and be broke. 

And trust me im getting hunted enough already when im sniping or tanking, they're not scared haha

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@Gliven You totally missed Axesor's point inspite of he expressed it many times, it's not about changing the KD players style. You can't be so naive thinking that removing a stat would change how they play the game.
What matters that once again this came to the attention of the devs and they found a nice solution which apparently satisfy your point of view as well. I guess you helped to raise awarness of this by posting so many times in such a small time, so thanks.
I'll let go many of your arguments as it seems you were on the edge when replying. Please don't hate me for going offtopic one last time, to elaborate a few things.

Spoiler


23 hours ago, Gliven said:

So running back to get a refill so the enemy cant kill you and get vp is a bad thing, and cowardly? Good to know. Next time i am an expensive 1000 cred character, i will make sure I die to be brave and a "decent" shooter. Giving the enemy team vp is super duper

I understand if you got triggered about my half HP - fall back argument. My bad, I meant to say half armor, so 10 points to Gryffindor!

22 hours ago, Gliven said:

If you can remove obstacles for your teammates you are being a good teammate. If you have someone who is really good at aiming and tracking sitting in the tunnel/infantry path, you know for a fact that no one is going to be able to get by them easily.

What you forget about area control that a KD farmer sure can play Gandalf not allowing anyone passing by him, but for the reasons Sarah! already explanied, those guys will constantly engage the farmer, giving him/her a hard time to advance or to achieve something meaningful. Not to mention both sides loses the element of suprise in that area. When teams are fairly balanced this leads to a dinamic stalemate, an obstacle for both sides. That's what you think it gives so much to your team? On a few maps in certain conditions yes, but in general I don't think so.

But let's say your farmer reached the enemy base, then what? Shooting more peeps? Damaging a building while under fire? It's not sustainable for long, vehicles always make them retreat. In some games you can even observe that only a single tank guarding the inf path is enough to keep them at bay.

22 hours ago, Gliven said:

Good luck trying to use an airstrike when there is a sniper in the field.

What does that has to do with the farmers? Any decent sniper take that shot.

22 hours ago, Gliven said:

Sure you CAN sneak by them, but how many times are you willing to try? how much time are you going to waste trying to sneak by that person?

Either we have different concepts about sneaking or you don't know how we operate.

22 hours ago, Gliven said:

Sure a tank can shoot back at a sniper, but how many times are you actually able to kill them before they kill your repairs?

It's not about killing them, it's about making them retreat in order to protect the repair crew. I'm starting to feel that you mix up KD farmers with snipers. Good snipers hunt down engies, techs and high priority targets. Farmers most of the time occupy tunnels/inf path because there are lots of targets to kill. I've been in many games where our techs were critical to keep our tanks alive during heavy sieges. Losing them would have decimated us. What the enemy one-shot-wonder did for the entire game? Shooting people in the tunnels of course, God bless her soul.

22 hours ago, Gliven said:

When ever i hear or read anyone complaining about people who play the k/d game, is that they cant compete. They think their idea of "teamwork" is the only way. They think If you arent rushing to your death constantly in "organised attacks" you arent being a team player.

There's truth in that, it's in the nature of the man that after all. If one is powerless to do/prevent something it can become very frustrating over time. But generalising that all complaints against them is based on that is a ridiculous, invalid argument.

As a matter fact, before I suspended playing I did compete in the KD game and beat them to it. 
I was the pokemon Bulbasaur, the majestic dien00b was poi, Destroyer has a different name nowadays and idk what happened to scrapeg0att.

Fun fact: our aiming skill wasn't even close to Cannuck's or Banana's. They were the real deal.
Anyways, it can be seen from my comment that even back then I had problems with KD farming, wasn't proud about it. It felt wrong, poisoned the atmosphere, was demoralising the enemy and I really-really-really regret if I made any player to give up on RenegadeX after the shit I put through them. With the low playercount this is still an issue which you might understand one day.
Nowadays I don't have the stomach for the KD game, it's not healthy for RenX. Only grab a ramjet if techs needs to go or snipers/Ravs/Syds wants to kill our dudes in our base because they "control a huge area". yesterday Xmountain @Sarah!

23 hours ago, Gliven said:

And toxic behavior? Whenever there is 2 entities competing there will always be showboating, name calling, etc.

Everyone needs to lighten the fuck up. Someone called you a bad name? OH NO! WE MUST REMOVE THE TOXIC.

Are all of you from single child families? Never fought fiercely with a brother, called each other names. And then civil to each other and joking around the next minute?

Are you all bots? Do you get triggered whenever someone says (noob team) Does your brain shoot error codes whenever someone tea bags you?

Tell'em tiger! I'm sure they'd understand what you have to say to them. You would be my bestest of best friend if you could make them all understand not to make their life miserable by fighting a pointless fight. You are funny.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Radeon3 said:

@Gliven You totally missed Axesor's point inspite of he expressed it many times, it's not about changing the KD players style. You can't be so naive thinking that removing a stat would change how they play the game.
What matters that once again this came to the attention of the devs and they found a nice solution which apparently satisfy your point of view as well. I guess you helped to raise awarness of this by posting so many times in such a small time, so thanks.
I'll let go many of your arguments as it seems you were on the edge when replying. Please don't hate me for going offtopic one last time, to elaborate a few things.

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I understand if you got triggered about my half HP - fall back argument. My bad, I meant to say half armor, so 10 points to Gryffindor!

What you forget about area control that a KD farmer sure can play Gandalf not allowing anyone passing by him, but for the reasons Sarah! already explanied, those guys will constantly engage the farmer, giving him/her a hard time to advance or to achieve something meaningful. Not to mention both sides loses the element of suprise in that area. When teams are fairly balanced this leads to a dinamic stalemate, an obstacle for both sides. That's what you think it gives so much to your team? On a few maps in certain conditions yes, but in general I don't think so.

But let's say your farmer reached the enemy base, then what? Shooting more peeps? Damaging a building while under fire? It's not sustainable for long, vehicles always make them retreat. In some games you can even observe that only a single tank guarding the inf path is enough to keep them at bay.

What does that has to do with the farmers? Any decent sniper take that shot.

Either we have different concepts about sneaking or you don't know how we operate.

It's not about killing them, it's about making them retreat in order to protect the repair crew. I'm starting to feel that you mix up KD farmers with snipers. Good snipers hunt down engies, techs and high priority targets. Farmers most of the time occupy tunnels/inf path because there are lots of targets to kill. I've been in many games where our techs were critical to keep our tanks alive during heavy sieges. Losing them would have decimated us. What the enemy one-shot-wonder did for the entire game? Shooting people in the tunnels of course, God bless her soul.

There's truth in that, it's in the nature of the man that after all. If one is powerless to do/prevent something it can become very frustrating over time. But generalising that all complaints against them is based on that is a ridiculous, invalid argument.

As a matter fact, before I suspended playing I did compete in the KD game and beat them to it. 
I was the pokemon Bulbasaur, the majestic dien00b was poi, Destroyer has a different name nowadays and idk what happened to scrapeg0att.

Fun fact: our aiming skill wasn't even close to Cannuck's or Banana's. They were the real deal.
Anyways, it can be seen from my comment that even back then I had problems with KD farming, wasn't proud about it. It felt wrong, poisoned the atmosphere, was demoralising the enemy and I really-really-really regret if I made any player to give up on RenegadeX after the shit I put through them. With the low playercount this is still an issue which you might understand one day.
Nowadays I don't have the stomach for the KD game, it's not healthy for RenX. Only grab a ramjet if techs needs to go or snipers/Ravs/Syds wants to kill our dudes in our base because they "control a huge area". yesterday Xmountain @Sarah!

Tell'em tiger! I'm sure they'd understand what you have to say to them. You would be my bestest of best friend if you could make them all understand not to make their life miserable by fighting a pointless fight. You are funny.

 

 

I can't tell what you're saying about me and it took me a while to find where I was mentioned at.

 

Anyways, basically the whole time I was trying to infiltrate a building and 90% of my deaths were from being in your base disarming mines at the door and dying. We were in the hon twice actually. After I died like 8 times I eventually quit and just started sniping the defenders from the base to try and let the tanks move in and end it.

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44 minutes ago, Veyron said:

secretly In the back of everyones mind everyone wants a damn good K/D so they can think and be like, "ya I did pretty good this round!"

it's psychological and it's satisfying.  

No so secretly, i want all the points, all the Kills, all the stats. I wanna be MVP for both teams.

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