Air Drops & other balance changes discussions.

[SFJake]

There has been a few changes done to the core balance of the game that does some right or wrong. Some I thought would be great but turn out to be not so great, and some that very much depends on the opinions of everyone.

I'm making this topic to discuss those changes and what to change. Ideally, we need the opinions of a bigger part of the community. Its difficult to know what people want and truly think about various features.

---The Refinery now gives 1$/per seconds when destroyed---

This is a big balance change that was probably too much.

The idea behind this change, I would guess, is to allow players who don't have any money a way to get some, but from experience already, the refinery down, its actually TOO easy now to get what you need and makes the Refinery a much less valuable target. Yes, they lose the ability to harvest, but it still feels like its not enough.

If the player would still get a small income from the refinery, it should be 1$/2-3 seconds.

An ideal fix however, would be to remove this entirely and use something like Hate's veterancy system (viewtopic.php?f=26&t=74772) to allow players to use their own skills to buy things when the refinery is down.

Otherwise, a change to the credit-point system so that you can get at least a decent amount of money through things that aren't sieging or repairing buildings.

The whole problem also is that we don't want this income of credits to make the cash-pilling issue (see under) even worse. Instead we need a refinery-down meaning the other team cannot still just keep buying what they want.

---People pile up too much cash---

There are multiple problems here. For starters, even in a map like Complex, you can get a lot and I mean a LOT of cash, too easily, just waiting the game out. And all that WITHOUT the Tiberium Silo.

I'd suggest lowering the amount of cash the tiberium silo gives. 1$/seconds would still be a fair amount.

I lack solutions in this area. It was easy enough in the old Renegade to pile up money and it didn't have silos.

---Vehicle Air Drops---

The problem with air drops as it stands is that they are much stronger on GDI's side of things. Every 5 minutes, the team will gain a mammoth tank, because why build anything else?

I would disable Mammoth tanks from air drops. But then that wouldn't be fair either for GDI, so stealth & flame would need to be disabled from air drops.

Or increase the prices of the better vehicles by a LOT. As much as asking for 5000 credits for a mammoth airdrop. There's a good money sink.

I like having ways for vehicles to still be bought since long marathon games get boring. But at the moment, it doesn't feel quite right.

Also, I would also expect Air Drops to be a server-side option. Marathon benefit from it, but AoW servers would probably not normally want to use it.

---

Please share your ideas and opinions about the various concepts, so that we can help the developers balance this game, which is a very difficult task.

Agree, disagree, just share it with us.

Feel free to add other balance discussions to the topic as well. (but not bug-physics related issues)

[RypeL]

We are open to suggestions. We just thought that building loss was indeed too harsh and could make it very boring for the loosing team. Or could cause very boring stalemates in marathon. So we now got new mechanics in like airdrops. Now we are looking for suggestions like yours where to go from here.

Although as always: Pls give it some time before making too much conclusion. Its the first day of Beta 4 and everything takes getting used to.

[HaTe]

---The Refinery now gives 1$/per seconds when destroyed---

As you mentioned, a vet system would be ideal to fix this problem. Rype said that he will begin working on this in the near future, so I think that the refinery working like it does it just a temporary solution. As is, killing the airstrip/WF does almost as much damage to a team credit wise as killing the refinery (the whole no harvester situation).

---People pile up too much cash---

I think that existed in Renegade on maps where the tib field is right near the refinery too. It wasn't necessarily bad in renegade, because it provided for a nice change of pace at least. I think the main problem with Ren X having this is the addition of unique purchasable weapons/grenades and whatnot. If these were purchasable by SP (via the vet system) in the future, I think that this could be easily solved in that way.

Another possible yet radical solution for this is to create a sort of "mini harvester" for these maps that only dumps 100 credits at a time, rather than the traditional 300. Again, radical and probably time-consuming, but a nice thought nonetheless.

As far as the silo goes (another completely radical idea here), you could always have it give the player doing the final damage the choice of 3 options. Press *insert buttons here for option 1,2,or 3* Option 1 gives a bonus to team ammo (+20% ammo). Option 2 gives +1 cred/sec for team. Option 3 gives each player 10% increased max health. Something along those lines, so that you can get credits when needed, or other upgrades when not needed. Radical, but efficient.

---Vehicle Air Drops---

Would/could/will be solved by the addition of a vet system. Have them cost SP rather than credits.

[yosh56]

As you mentioned, a vet system would be ideal to fix this problem. Rype said that he will begin working on this in the near future, so I think that the refinery working like it does it just a temporary solution. As is, killing the airstrip/WF does almost as much damage to a team credit wise as killing the refinery (the whole no harvester situation).

Again, second currency is something that fixes so many problems (and will probably add new ones, but nothing's perfect.)

I think that existed in Renegade on maps where the tib field is right near the refinery too. It wasn't necessarily bad in renegade, because it provided for nice change of pace at least. I think the main problem with Ren X having this is the addition of unique purchasable weapons/grenades and whatnot. If these were purchasable by SP (via the vet system) in the future, I think that this could be easily solved in that way.

+2 for Veterancy system. I still would rather it be VP for Veterancy points though, if only because it's more CnCish.

---Vehicle Air Drops---

Agreed with Hate long before Hate ever even said it. When we were jamming about the idea of airdrops in that topic long ago, I'd mentioned that it'd make less sense to have them still be tied to credits for several reasons.

---The Refinery now gives 1$/per seconds when destroyed---

I honestly think this would be better off as a server-side option that controls how much you get with a dead Ref. +.5 might be better than 1... but it'd be different depending on game-type/size and such.

[HaTe]

VP instead of SP would be perfectly fine. I just wanted people to realize that they were getting them based on their actions, not just being there. "Veterancy" for many people is coined with just playing for a while, rather than skill that is self-explanatory. Not a topic worth discussing either way, since it doesn't matter all that much in the end.

[Ryz]

Maybe create separate topics to discuss this? Also posted about Mesa2 to check ppls opinion.

[boxes]

I was thinking maybe both PP and Ref should have +1 creds/sec.

With the changed price increase for destroyed PPs, it can be argued that the Power Plant is the least significant structure atm for non-adv. base defense maps. Splitting the credit increase to both resource structures would be better balance imo, and would also make more game sense.

[Ap2000]

A broken refinery should not give any money.

Actually, was the credits receiving changed drastically in general?

Because I was just playing about 12 minutes on Under today (didn't have any time to do more playing yet) and got about 5000, without doing that much.

The game seems to throw credits at you.

[HaTe]

I was thinking maybe both PP and Ref should have +1 creds/sec.

With the changed price increase for destroyed PPs, it can be argued that the Power Plant is the least significant structure atm for non-adv. base defense maps. Splitting the credit increase to both resource structures would be better balance imo, and would also make more game sense.

PP does quite a bit, even on non-base defense maps. Doubles prices (1.5x now in RenX I guess actually), makes harvester drops take more time. Increases vehicle build time. At least it did all of that in the original; haven't tested each of those features in RenX yet.

Some maps also don't have a PP, so that wouldn't be too logical. Not to mention that killing the PP on a base defense map is *usually* the best first building to kill already. Making it have that additional feature would be overkill.

@AP2000; perhaps you were donated?

[boxes]

Some maps also don't have a PP, so that wouldn't be too logical. Not to mention that killing the PP on a base defense map is *usually* the best first building to kill already. Making it have that additional feature would be overkill.

Oops, I did not have that in mind. Yeah, that would be a problem.

[Alkaline!]

Vech drops are just plan BS. What the heck you are supposed to be punished for loosing your strip/fac instead you get a "Time out" Ohh you have been a bad boy now you must wait 5 mins before you get your toy.

NO, you loose You get nothing!

[Alkaline!]

Same for busted refinery, no more creds. The 1 cred should only happen if BOTH teams loose there ref, if 1 team looses it then they are going to pay, err go broke.

The only change I'm ok with is Tier 1 chars for free in the bar.

Going back to the VECH drop, if it has to exsist then their should be severe limits:

1) Cost is 2x, if pp is down then cost is 4x

2) HP should be 50% of regular because this vech drops are obvious Chinese Knock Offs overseas defects.

3) Whole Teams Vech Limit will be HALFED

[boxes]

I don't know, I like the idea of getting a slower stream of credits from a destroyed refinery. Early ref losses are less significant this way. It's the silo that I have a problem with, +1.5 is a bit much.

Vehicle drops need to be looked at. At its current state it makes the WF/Strip nigh useless. Before a Vet. system is implemented, I agree with what Alkaline suggested about the price, x2 cost, x4 without PP. Vehicle limit should be 3.

[HaTe]

1 and 3 seem logical from Alkaline's suggestions. 2 would render it useless entirely.

[Ardente]

1) Cost is 2x, if pp is down then cost is 4x

2) HP should be 50% of regular because this vech drops are obvious Chinese Knock Offs overseas defects.

3) Whole Teams Vech Limit will be HALFED

1)

I dont know about that..

A Artillery costs 450.. lets say the PP is down, then we're at 1800 - PLUS the "tax" (you have to pay more with the drop), then we're at around 2000 - For a Artillery. Easiely down in 4-5 Rocket Soldier shots.

There is no way to defend the base against a single mammoth tank. Hell.. even a APC could destroy the Arty.

I like the fact, that you have to pay more. But x4?

2) Same for the HP. You dont wanna spend 2000 for a Arty with 200HP

3) Not fair for me. Cos GDI will buy 3 Mammys or even 2 Mammy and 1 MRLS.. or 1 Mammy, Med Tank and MRLS.

Nod doesn't have a moving fort like the Mammy. The Stank is a joke, the Light Tank cant even take a fight with a Med Tank and the FlameTank isn't good enough.. cos close range.

[HaTe]

If the PP and airstrip are down, then Nod should be lucky that they even have the option to still purchase a vehicle, regardless of it costing more. That's just my thought. A mammoth tank would cost 6000 in this example (with the addition of possibly no harvester for a while and 1 cred/sec); so it's not likely going to be a common purchase from this system. Nod has the artillery which can be repaired to be the best glass cannon unit in the game, the stank which is ideal for larger map sneaking, and the light tank which is highly elusive and hard to kill with an experienced driver.

I think 1 and 3 are reasonable until a Vet System is implemented (remember this is only a temporary solution until the Vet System).

[Alkaline!]

You are not supposed to be able to buy ANYTHING when the weap is down. be lucky you have the option at all, next time defend your base...

OK DEAL add 1 and 3 and we will call it even.

Remember loosing a building is supposed to have consequences.

[RoundShades]

We are open to suggestions. We just thought that building loss was indeed too harsh and could make it very boring for the loosing team. Or could cause very boring stalemates in marathon. So we now got new mechanics in like airdrops. Now we are looking for suggestions like yours where to go from here.

Although as always: Pls give it some time before making too much conclusion. Its the first day of Beta 4 and everything takes getting used to.

Credit Pyling is a problem. Making the ref more important can come from either making more money sinks (secondary weapons, like a 400 carbine and a 350 weak repairgun secondary wep), and/or lowering income by maybe making income ticks come every second and a half or make refineries grant 1.5 credit (3 every 2) and when dead just .5 (1 every 2). Obv the silo would add a .5.

SOURCE PROVING CREDIT PROBLEM: Noting Yosh's detailed guide, Nod has an advantage early in getting vehicles on the field because theirs is cheaper and counters gdi until gdi can afford to field meds. Well, that would be a full-game advantage if credits were more sparse and you couldn't buy a vehicle every other minute, so Nod getting vehicle kills would start to win a war of attrition by wasting those creds and vehicles and leaving a little long of a gap before they could be funded to replace.

The airdrop thing, would fix with scaled cost as a 3k tank is a lot of cash to pony up for a tank if credits were more serious a short supply, but can also be better helped with less cooldown for lower tier vehicle or a wider price gap like 4-5k for a mammy and 2.7k for a stank.

Some maps are way too climbable. The edges having really high vantage points on several maps now, does not play fun. Some rocks on Under should be less climbable, the handguard for the stairs should be easier or impossible to climb but not "trick-climb". Field needs more vunerability for attack on the ledge.

I still like things this patch. It shows promise. The hadouken they added to volt rifles and everything.

[MEALSOLUTIONS]

I have an issue with the airdrops. On top of them being completely OP, I cannot access the purchase terminal when the wep/strip dies. Most of the time there will be a counter that ticks down and when it does, it just goes into the negatives and keeps going forever. However, there are other times where there is no counter at all and the vehicle tab on the terminal stays grayed out. Is there a known fix for this?

[Gerbil Tube]

I Have to agree with Alkaline on this topic. I believe it was fine the way it was. If your team losses the ref then your team just lost your money over time tic and lump sum. WF/Strip, loss of vehicles. I believe this was a fair system because it punished teams for losing buildings (right now I feel like there is no point to killing something, besides PP on base defence maps). I do understand that the system seemed to not work, but I believe that was to do with new players thinking it was too harsh and marathon (like stated above, I agree that the changes are nice in marathon matches but they still do not punish teams hard enough as they are). Many times I have seen good teams lose a building and still win. If the team is "good" they will know what to do after a building was lost (even though a good team shouldn't have lost it in the first place). If your team loses a building it should feel like an uphill battle.

I also agree that, if these changes are going to stay (or atleast until the vet system is here), #1 and 3 are a good step to make airdrops a little more harsh. I still don't know about the ref changes, but I also would not know how to solve them either.

[Ryz]

The new system created some really odd situations yesterday. For example:

- A flamerush was gathered as soon as we could and took out all GDI buildings except ref.

- From the point Nod had the advantage

- GDI still won by camping the REF (one building to defend) and continuously spamming vehicles.

Seen this behavior multiple times.

Sometimes it's better to just let your strip and some other buildings die so the enemy can pointwhore. Than, with the lower costs (only 50% added with PP down), income still available from REF and tanks still spamming from airdrop you can easy win. Basically letting the enemy kill half your base is a valuable tactic now. Cause you only have to defend one building and can focus almost the entire team on attacking.

[epicelite]

Limit airdrops to humvee/buggy, APC, arty/MRLS starting at twice the cost and call it a day. If you wanted something bigger you should of thought about that before losing your WF/Strip.

[TheOlsenTwins]

Limit airdrops to humvee/buggy, APC, arty/MRLS starting at twice the cost and call it a day. If you wanted something bigger you should of thought about that before losing your WF/Strip.

This! And also the credit rate without ref should be a bit less (maybe 0,5 per second)

[Darkraptor]

I moved this post to another topic

Edited March 26, 2015 by Guest

[MEALSOLUTIONS]

My first experience which the air drop was, that i got a mammut tank. And that mammut tank lands on my head and kills me. So thats was some kind of a dead crate .

And yes, air drop are in the moment a litle bit overpowered.

Humvee/buggy, APC, arty/MRLS are fine. Perhaps a light tank for both teams, too .

But pls not med and flame tank. And of course not mammut tank. I had enough headache

What's a mummut tank?

[SFJake]

You kind of have to give med tanks if you give light tanks.

I think no mammoth-flame-stealth tanks would be fine, plus increased prices.

Just giving artilleries but not the tanks seems kind of weird to me.

[epicelite]

You kind of have to give med tanks if you give light tanks.

I think no mammoth-flame-stealth tanks would be fine, plus increased prices.

Just giving artilleries but not the tanks seems kind of weird to me.

Ok no artillery either, just APC.

[HaTe]

Just so you guys know, the most probable eventual plan is to have something like this:

http://www.renegade-x.com/forums/viewto ... 26&t=74772

So that credits aren't used to purchase these vehicles, but a different economical system entirely is. The system (not the details) is partially confirmed by rype to be added in the (hopefully near) future.

Jake included this in the original post, but just informing you guys that its a temporary system in place right now.

[AirNomad]

I feel as if I have lost my drive to play Renegade because of these changes. It really takes away from the strategy completely. Please make it a server option to play with these new changes, or original Renegade. That is the best option for this. I feel as though many people feel the same about this. Ofcourse there are those who may like the changes and that is okay! But it should be an option. Please Devs! Consider! This way, both sides will be happy.

[Jello]

I feel as if I have lost my drive to play Renegade because of these changes. It really takes away from the strategy completely. Please make it a server option to play with these new changes, or original Renegade. That is the best option for this. I feel as though many people feel the same about this. Ofcourse there are those who may like the changes and that is okay! But it should be an option. Please Devs! Consider! This way, both sides will be happy.

Yes... i also feel the same. While some changes i like, most gameplay changes kinda take the fun out of it.

[RypeL]

Theres a lot of players who agreed that building loss was too harsh. There was a big thread about it. Loosing certain buildings just meant gg in most cases or extremely boring stalemates. Renegade X isent just Renegade and some people need to get used to that.

[SFJake]

I feel as if I have lost my drive to play Renegade because of these changes. It really takes away from the strategy completely. Please make it a server option to play with these new changes, or original Renegade. That is the best option for this. I feel as though many people feel the same about this. Ofcourse there are those who may like the changes and that is okay! But it should be an option. Please Devs! Consider! This way, both sides will be happy.

To be honest, the servers seemed to be enjoying it quite a bit.

In fact, Marathon servers haven't devolved into whining about OMG WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING so far. Instead there's more back & forth and the game doesn't "end" for hours when 1 building too many dies.

Not that I'm against adding an option for it (probably can even just make a mutator for it), and its not balanced yet, but so far it had a good effect on marathon.

[Ryz]

Can we just make a poll about it or come up with some other way to really measure what the people think? As far as I have seen only 1/3 or 1/4 favours the system, while most people are against it.

- Server side option would be cool

- Special options coming online after x amount of time (so airdrop after strip is down 20 min, OR in last 5 min of game).

Now, as posted above, you are actually better off if you have to defend just ONE building. If it's properly mined and a non flying map than it's almost impossible to get it down as an enemy team. The rocket soldiers and chemsprayers basically kill everything and the 'credit' reload time is so quick that you can just buy them over and over again.

[Darkraptor]

I feel as if I have lost my drive to play Renegade because of these changes. It really takes away from the strategy completely. Please make it a server option to play with these new changes, or original Renegade. That is the best option for this. I feel as though many people feel the same about this. Ofcourse there are those who may like the changes and that is okay! But it should be an option. Please Devs! Consider! This way, both sides will be happy.

To lose a building is with patch 4.02 still a huge penalty. So aktually you still have enough motivation to destroy the enemy buildings.

I'am very glad about this changes.

Now, as posted above, you are actually better off if you have to defend just ONE building. If it's properly mined and a non flying map than it's almost impossible to get it down as an enemy team. The rocket soldiers and chemsprayers basically kill everything and the 'credit' reload time is so quick that you can just buy them over and over again.

Sorry, i dont see a big different to the early betas. Defending only one building was always easy. But with the new changes, the defending team has now better abilitys to attack.

And one thing more, if you have trouble to kill one single building: USE TEAMPLAY. (could't resits to say that)

[RoundShades]

Theres a lot of players who agreed that building loss was too harsh. There was a big thread about it. Loosing certain buildings just meant gg in most cases or extremely boring stalemates. Renegade X isent just Renegade and some people need to get used to that.

I think my overall feelings torwards it, is that you should get huge nerf or an occasional forgivance, but once a building is destroyed it should almost but not entirely remove that from the game.

Basially, it MAY be to lax now:

- As for the refinery I think credits are too abundant and making it 2 second ticks and 3 credits for alive versus 1 if destroyed should help (75% original, and 25% original incomes).

- PP already disables base defense and is usually fairly open, it should reduce the damage of the base defences or lower the fire rate instead, among it's other debuffs. Or just do the base defence and not the other stuff. I prefer it doing a little of everything, reduced base defence damage, increase purchase costs 50%, decrease credits to 2 every 2 seconds.

- the unit and vehicle factories, credits already buy them ingame so needing them is alright, just put a cooldown on that along with a 3x price. The infantry should have airdrops too.

- the base defence could be given lower damage when destroyed, and when both it and PP are destroyed it can stop completely.

[GatsuFox]

The ref change feels fine to me. I mean you only get 300 credits every 5 minutes, that's not exactly a whole lot. Also without a Power Plant that 300 credits effectively turns into 200 credits every 5 minutes (because prices increase by 50%). In terms of economy, the real problem is the SILO. Having the silo gives an additional 1.5cps with whatever ref bonus a team has. Right now when a team loses the ref they can just grab the silo and still be an "advantage" in terms of income unless the other team never loses their harvester.

Here's some numerical analysis:

Ref up = 600 credits/5 minutes (harvy bonus)

Ref down = 300 credits/5 minutes

Silo = Additional 450 credits/5 minutes

Ref up + Silo = 1050 credits/5 minutes (harvy bonus)

Ref down + silo = 750 credits/5 minutes

I don't think the ref change is the money problem here...

Also I think the power plant feels fine. At the current penalty I don't feel as if I need to camp the base with my 1k class in fear of losing something worth 2k+. It allows room for more risk = less camping =? less stalemates. ?

[Canucck]

---The Refinery now gives 1$/per seconds when destroyed---

I'd suggest lowering the amount of cash the tiberium silo gives. 1$/seconds would still be a fair amount.

The ref giving trickle credits after dying would be a good idea if silos didn't exist, at 1c per ~3s. 1/s is too much either way.

With silos, refs they should give nothing after death. Silos give way way way too much money as is, it's just like having another refinery. SIlos should give at most 1c per ~3s, the current rate has always been really over the top. I'd love to see some stats that compare winning team to silo control time per map...

Having an objective to fight over in the field is a good idea, but most of them are poorly placed (or there is just no place for them on the map at all) and end up giving a massive advantage to the team that manages to get slightly ahead. It's completely a 'strong get stronger' mechanic atm.

(Under has the only decently placed silo imo)

[SFJake]

I'd have removed the silos completely long ago, but they got tied too deeply in all the maps (and ALL the new maps have it). I'd be fine with any nerf to it, really.

[Handepsilon]

- the base defence could be given lower damage when destroyed, and when both it and PP are destroyed it can stop completely.

Bad idea for a map like Field.

[SFJake]

I have to add something about airdrops:

HOW is it supposed to work?

At first I thought this was 1 per 5 minutes. But then people can sometimes buy 2-3 vehicles in 5 minutes.

Personally, the timer goes to 0 and then back up because someone buys a vehicles before I do.

Its really hard to tell how its supposed to be balanced when I don't even know how it works. I think its just too buggy right now.

Heck I joined a marathon game and the timer is negative. Yet some others can still buy vehicles.

Its really confusing.

[Xtractor]

I was on a map for 2hour and id never could access the dam thing ,always saying pending (-8705) or what ever numbers

[Ap2000]

Theres a lot of players who agreed that building loss was too harsh. There was a big thread about it. Loosing certain buildings just meant gg in most cases or extremely boring stalemates. Renegade X isent just Renegade and some people need to get used to that.

I'm not sure where you're getting that "a lot of players" from, because everybody playing on the servers seems to agree this was a change for the worse. Similar, but not as much, with the crates.

Besides, do those softening "everybody is a winner!" changes make the game a better one? I think it makes it a lot more shallow.

[Ryz]

Now, as posted above, you are actually better off if you have to defend just ONE building. If it's properly mined and a non flying map than it's almost impossible to get it down as an enemy team. The rocket soldiers and chemsprayers basically kill everything and the 'credit' reload time is so quick that you can just buy them over and over again.

Sorry, i dont see a big different to the early betas. Defending only one building was always easy. But with the new changes, the defending team has now better abilitys to attack.

And one thing more, if you have trouble to kill one single building: USE TEAMPLAY. (could't resits to say that)

Hehe Teamplay, sometimes it takes more time to organize one rush with 5 people than it takes to make the rush fail. On TmX I basicly know the outcome of a match when I join based on who is playing and how (or even if) they are reacting. So I would use teamplay if I could

But about the fact of defending one building... It's actually VERY different. In the past you had ALL resources (in the situation your base is still there) to attack. Basicly you could just kill their last vehicles and special units, than remove mines or do a tankrush combined mpared with beacon.

Now:

- The costs are lower for the 'enemy' which has lost PP

- Can still buy tier 1 character (chemrush kills entire rush of 10 ppl alone)

- Can still get any tank

- Can still get money in even with REF down

But let's imagine that the REF is still alive, but the rest down. In this case you can just dig in, mine the entire building with 30/40/80/90 mines depending on server. The cheap rocketsoldiers (Nod, not sure what GDI equivalent is, patch?) can take down orca's in four shots and hold of tanks. You can buy vehicles also. So there is just no 'smoke them out' tactic / let them starve off tactic possible.

I've seen winning teams (rush in first 10 minutes with 10 tanks and killed 3 out of 4 buildings ) lose cause they lost morale after trying over ten attacks which they enemy just easily held off defending that single building.

So: it's quite different than Beta1/2/3.

I have t say one off my best games ever was when we only had the HON in (I guess) Beta3 and where we were able to hold off rushes for 20 minutes. It was a good fight which we lost. But we delayed the enemy for as long as we could, while the enemy weakened us every round which kept them motivated. Now there is less weakening, so easier chance of morale loss.

[SFJake]

Heh, I see single buildings fall all the time.

The only problem right now is that vehicles air drops are broken and bugged, at this point I wager its luck-based who gets more vehicles. THIS is whats breaking some games.

If the airdrops worked properly and weren't glitching, I think there wouldn't be any issues. I've been in some games where one building was standing off againts invasions and honestly? They didn't have much of a chance at all, even now.

It did mean however, that when BOTH Teams are down to 1 building, the game didn't turn into a long, tedious, boring stalemate.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Guest

[Ap2000]

I think it would be cool to have a thread that updates each time with the new change log, so

"- Increased infantry costs when Barracks/Hand of Nod are destroyed to be twice as much as the normal cost" - This is very good!

I think having that base infantry there is a nice idea, but the price adjustment was needed.

[HaTe]

Should do a poll 1 week after each patch update that asks players if they like each individual new change or liked the previous version, or would like it done differently than either. 1 week gives players the chance to not react impulsively and actually get to experience the changes.

[Darkraptor]

I have to add something about airdrops:

HOW is it supposed to work?

At first I thought this was 1 per 5 minutes. But then people can sometimes buy 2-3 vehicles in 5 minutes.

Personally, the timer goes to 0 and then back up because someone buys a vehicles before I do.

Its really hard to tell how its supposed to be balanced when I don't even know how it works. I think its just too buggy right now.

Heck I joined a marathon game and the timer is negative. Yet some others can still buy vehicles.

Its really confusing.

I noticed that there was an air drop immediately after the airfield was destroyed. That shuold be fixed pls.

After destroying Wf / Air Field all players of the team that lost the building must be affected of the blocking time right away the building is blown up.

[Ryz]

Should do a poll 1 week after each patch update that asks players if they like each individual new change or liked the previous version, or would like it done differently than either. 1 week gives players the chance to not react impulsively and actually get to experience the changes.

Sounds good!

[GatsuFox]

---The Refinery now gives 1$/per seconds when destroyed---

I'd suggest lowering the amount of cash the tiberium silo gives. 1$/seconds would still be a fair amount.

The ref giving trickle credits after dying would be a good idea if silos didn't exist, at 1c per ~3s. 1/s is too much either way.

With silos, refs they should give nothing after death. Silos give way way way too much money as is, it's just like having another refinery. SIlos should give at most 1c per ~3s, the current rate has always been really over the top. I'd love to see some stats that compare winning team to silo control time per map...

Having an objective to fight over in the field is a good idea, but most of them are poorly placed (or there is just no place for them on the map at all) and end up giving a massive advantage to the team that manages to get slightly ahead. It's completely a 'strong get stronger' mechanic atm.

(Under has the only decently placed silo imo)

Yep. Right now Volcano and Walls feel pretty damn good to play, even when buildings are lost.

Silo's need a credit nerf, but in return they should give other optional bonuses like more tiberium tech. I really can't think of any examples for this, since we're limited to only 3 weapon slots for most classes (I really think grenades should have a dedicated slot, same slot as remote c4).

[Lunesta]

I feel that after a team loses wf/strip there should be a countdown.

It would work in such a way so that you can't get vehicles for x-amount of

time before the airdrop starts. What this does is it grants possible tanks for

to prevent long stalemate but during the next few minutes after the building

loss the team is in a dire situation. A well organized team could both protect

the surviving tanks and hold out until air drop as well as an organized enemy

team could use their momentum to rapidly roll out rush of some sort and win.

Those moments in beta 3 where one team only had a couple of tanks protecting

the base was something I really enjoyed. Whether I'd be in the winning or loosing

team.

Still I do feel that having the possibilities to buy every tank after building loss is a

bit much.

I also agree that silos should be nerfed. As it stands, when you have ref and silo

you just pile up money and are free to buy tanks, 1k infantry and seccondary weapon

every time assuming you don't die instantly. But if you have lost ref and still have silo.

You barely can still play normally. I think loosing ref should get people to play more

conservatively. One of the things I love about this game is the fact that a building loss

on either team has an impact on your gameplay.

I feel that the barracks change is spot on!

One thing though. After beta 4 my radio has been very low, all the audio levels are on

c.a. 40% yet the radio is by far the lowest volumed one. IMO that is one of the most

important parts of communication in the game. Maybe the problem is on my side though.